Understanding wheel and tire fitment. - Page 10 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
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post #91 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy N. View Post
I don't think anyone here has argued that putting aftermarket lug centric wheels on a hub centric car without any indexing ring makes them lug centric only.

By the way, I did measure a wheel yesterday. Couldn't find my internal micrometer so there's a bit of potential error built in from transferring the measurement to a digital caliper.
Anyway, with a tiny bit of corrosion on the wheel it came to 74.47 mm if memory serves me.

Also, as GSBrockman pointed out, there's more to that center bore. At least 99% of all wheels are balanced using cones that go in that hole. It makes perfect sense to use the same bore for centering the wheel on a vehicle.
Correct.....

Back in the day, I recall we (S&S Tire) only had one tool we used for certain wheels that was NOT designed for utilizing the center bore, and those were (going off memory) 6*5.50”......for Nissan 4WD pickups and SUV’s and some Toyota pickups and SUV’s (note these were 4WD applications with manual locking hubs = larger than average center bore). Apparently any cone that could have been used for balancing was too small, or was not compatible at all.

A basic description >>> https://www.ebay.com/p/HUNTER-20-183...81ba1dffed240e

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post #92 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GSBrockman View Post
Correct.....

Back in the day, I recall we (S&S Tire) only had one tool we used for certain wheels that was NOT designed for utilizing the center bore, and those were (going off memory) 6*5.50”......for Nissan 4WD pickups and SUV’s and some Toyota pickups and SUV’s (note these were 4WD applications with manual locking hubs = larger than average center bore). Apparently any cone that could have been used for balancing was too small, or was not compatible at all.

A basic description >>> https://www.ebay.com/p/HUNTER-20-183...81ba1dffed240e


That is what they call for , for the weld wheels to be balanced. But for some reason I’ve yet to see them use it , and all of my tires have ridden well.


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post #93 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 04:51 PM
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You’re misinterpreting what I’m saying , the wheel may be hub centric, the car as in the vehicle is what is considered lugcnetric. I understand what you guys are all saying about the wheels , but at the end of the day , you can take a die grinder to the center bore of any oem wheel , open it up to whatever suits this “debate” remount the wheel using no rings at all and it will find center on the studs. Because it is a lug centric platform. The hub is for assistance purposes only.


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Yepppppppppp.......agreed you can do it, all day every day, all while increasing unwanted vibrations.

“Keeping the wheel precisely centered on the hub when it is mounted will minimize the chance of vibration.” —Tire Rack

Duhhhhhhhhhhh.....there’s a reason OEM’s design OEM wheel center bores to the application.
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post #94 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 05:18 PM
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Yepppppppppp.......agreed you can do it, all day every day, all while increasing unwanted vibrations.



“Keeping the wheel precisely centered on the hub when it is mounted will minimize the chance of vibration.” —Tire Rack



Duhhhhhhhhhhh.....there’s a reason OEM’s design OEM wheel center bores to the application.


See that’s where I would argue otherwise. I run my weld wheels as a daily and on the track and have reached speeds up to 160 with no vibration issues. I do completely understand how the hub helps with the alignment during mounting , but without it there I have yet to see any detrimental affect. The only time I use rings is when I run my other wheels which are 114.3’s (a whole other argument there) and that is to assist in an equal deflection of the studs to find center. Ps , have run those wheels in excess speeds as well as on the track and on the dyno. Zero issues
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post #95 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GSBrockman View Post
Back in the day, I recall we (S&S Tire) only had one tool we used for certain wheels that was NOT designed for utilizing the center bore, and those were (going off memory) 6*5.50”......for Nissan 4WD pickups and SUV’s and some Toyota pickups and SUV’s (note these were 4WD applications with manual locking hubs = larger than average center bore). Apparently any cone that could have been used for balancing was too small, or was not compatible at all.
Yep, the Hunter version you have the link to, or Haweka. That's why I wrote 99% earlier. Most people, unfortunately including at tire stores, don't know about their existence.
But technically at least the Haweka should be used with a cone at the back of the wheel, not the normal flat disc.

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See that’s where I would argue otherwise. I run my weld wheels as a daily and on the track and have reached speeds up to 160 with no vibration issues.
Since we have brought up Hunter Engineering here, you may be aware of the fact that its Road Force Variation balancers have a Smart Weight setting.
It is there to get a close-enough balance while saving on wheel weights. Time and money for the tire store. And sure enough, most people are perfectly happy with their close-enough balance.

But if you have enjoyed really well balanced wheels, you wouldn't settle for close-enough. Or bent wheels studs, for that matter.

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post #96 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 07:51 PM
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Yep, the Hunter version you have the link to, or Haweka. That's why I wrote 99% earlier. Most people, unfortunately including at tire stores, don't know about their existence.

But technically at least the Haweka should be used with a cone at the back of the wheel, not the normal flat disc.







Since we have brought up Hunter Engineering here, you may be aware of the fact that its Road Force Variation balancers have a Smart Weight setting.

It is there to get a close-enough balance while saving on wheel weights. Time and money for the tire store. And sure enough, most people are perfectly happy with their close-enough balance.



But if you have enjoyed really well balanced wheels, you wouldn't settle for close-enough. Or bent wheels studs, for that matter.


So are we now saying that weld racing wheels , because they do not require a hub centric ring , will not balance better than good enough ??? And you are aware that they are used up to and in excess of 200mph?
And we’re not touching bent studs , if I need to explain how minimal .035mm is when in fact the actual studs vary in diameter by sometimes more than that , well that is a subject that is only visible to an open eye in the real world.


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post #97 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 08:18 PM
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So are we now saying that weld racing wheels , because they do not require a hub centric ring , will not balance better than good enough ??? And you are aware that they are used up to and in excess of 200mph?
Very few, if any, wheels will require an indexing ring. And like most wheels, Weld Racing ones can be balanced just fine since that has nothing to do with being hub centric or not.
Besides, your wheels may very well be hub centric - on something other than your car.

How fast vehicles with them are driven also has nothing to do with it.

But let me ask you this; not that I looked carefully at the photo of the engine in your avatar, but I'm guessing it's one you built.
If so, did you install the piston rings with the gaps facing opposite directions? And did you degree the cam? Check bearing clearances?
Or maybe you just figured that it's close enough, just like with bolt circles?
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post #98 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 08:30 PM
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Very few, if any, wheels will require an indexing ring. And like most wheels, Weld Racing ones can be balanced just fine since that has nothing to do with being hub centric or not.

Besides, your wheels may very well be hub centric - on something other than your car.



How fast vehicles with them are driven also has nothing to do with it.



But let me ask you this; not that I looked carefully at the photo of the engine in your avatar, but I'm guessing it's one you built.

If so, did you install the piston rings with the gaps facing opposite directions? And did you degree the cam? Check bearing clearances?

Or maybe you just figured that it's close enough, just like with bolt circles?


No weld wheels are hub centric, none.
This is going back to balancing on the center of the studs. As I pointed out that I could use a die grinder and cut away the hub of an oem wheel, remount it centering on the studs which is what ultimately centers our wheels. And it would show no vibration. Which is what brockmam has said and you agreed.
Engine clearances are apples and oranges compared to what we are discussing. I also work as a structural iron worker and deal with torque spec and various bolts and deflection on a regular basis.


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post #99 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 08:38 PM
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No weld wheels are hub centric, none.
I believe you said that your wheels have an 80 mm center bore. Are you really sure that there is no vehicle(s) out there with an 80 mm hub? Really sure?

Bottom line; a wheel isn't hub centric or not. It becomes hub centric when used in the correct application(s) or with an indexing ring.
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post #100 of 110 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Ok Back to our regularly scheduled programing...

The search continues..
Girlfriend saw some SRT chrome rims and loved them.
Found these https://www.oewheelsllc.com/DG05-200...rger-SRT-style
Found a couple of other places that list them but outta stock.
Plenty of good and bad reviews.
Has anybody had any dealings with them?
They say their aluminum alloy plated chrome but also around 35 lbs so I'm thinking their really steel rims.
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