Understanding wheel and tire fitment. - Page 5 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
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post #41 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 04:45 AM
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Yeah.... About as clear as mud! :-)

Would be interesting to hear what Dodge says on the subject. Always best to go to the source! :-)
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post #42 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 05:02 AM
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Understanding wheel and tire fitment.

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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
Yeah.... About as clear as mud! :-)

Would be interesting to hear what Dodge says on the subject. Always best to go to the source! :-)


There is no debate , nothing to question , where are you lost ? Go outside , do what I said , then come back. If seeing is not believing, there is no helping you.


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post #43 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronan978 View Post
There is no debate , nothing to question , where are you lost ? Go outside , do what I said , then come back. If seeing is not believing, there is no helping you.


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Well when there is a thread where several guys like @Slidd (typically gives solid, correct info) have said that the OEM wheels are hub-centric of course there should be a debate.

https://www.challengertalk.com/forum...centric-637177

My own view of the difference between hub and lug centric aligns with this post I found. I keep seeing information that says hub centric means the wheel perfectly fits around the hub and bares the weight of the vehicle. But for that to be true the fit would need to be more of a press-fit. Also some manufacturers use plastic hub rings to take up the gap between the wheel and hub, no way those rings are supporting the weight of the vehicle.

Then there are definitions like this one from summit racing that does not mention a "perfect" fit.
https://help.summitracing.com/app/an...entric-mean%3F

I wonder if SAE has a more complete definition of what hub centric means...or if the definition changed over time as wheel/hub design evolved over time?
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post #44 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 06:43 AM
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There is no debate , nothing to question , where are you lost ? Go outside , do what I said , then come back. If seeing is not believing, there is no helping you.


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Sure there is a debate. It seems that most people believe Dodge wheels are hub-centric and a few believe they are lug-centric. Just becuase you say it's "fact" that they are lug-centric doesn't make it so.

Instead of going back and forth forever and getting nowhere, why not just ask the manufacturer and get the "real" answer? I'm certainly no "wheel" expert, so I would look to the manufacturer to give the correct answer here.

Personally, I believe that stock wheels are primarily hub-centric and aftermarket wheels can be hub-centric (if hub rings are used) or lug-centric (if hub rings are not - or cannot - be used). Basically, if a wheel uses the hub during mounting (and the hub and wheel center bore size match), then it's hub-centric. If a wheel doesn't use the hub, then it's lug-centric. But again, that is what *I* - someone who is not an "expert" on wheels, believes.

I would accept whatever Dodge says on the subject - they manufacturer the vehicle. However, I have a feeling that even if Dodge says their wheels are hub-centric, that you still wouldn't "accept" it...

I'll see if I can submit a question to Dodge and get their input. Otherwise, we will go back anf forth forever and get nowhere. :-)
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post #45 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ChallyTatum View Post

I keep seeing information that says hub centric means the wheel perfectly fits around the hub and bares the weight of the vehicle. But for that to be true the fit would need to be more of a press-fit. Also some manufacturers use plastic hub rings to take up the gap between the wheel and hub, no way those rings are supporting the weight of the vehicle.
Okay, to muddy the waters a bit more, a hub centric wheel isn't necessarily supporting the vehicle weight through the hub, and definitely not by the hub alone. There's a very high clamping force created by each wheel stud, assuming that the mounting surfaces are clean and true. That's how lug centric wheels can function in the first place.

Where hub centric wheels really shine is that by having a tight fit (often a light press fit) the wheel end up centered, and consequently running true.
Of course, with a looser fit and a bolt circle that is off a bit, even a hub centric wheel can be made to run a bit out of round if one installs it "tire shop style", fully tightening one nut first.

Lastly (?), and which I also probably should've brought up much earlier, the minute discrepancies in the wheel studs' diameters does absolutely nothing to help accommodate a difference in bolt circle and the wheel's hole spacing.
There's more to it than if the studs fit through the holes when using conical lug nuts.

For obvious reasons, regardless of stud diameter, once the taper of the lug nut reaches the corresponding taper in the wheel, the stud will be forced to center in the hole. In other words, bend.
That the two tapered surfaces won't quite seat against each other as intended doesn't exactly help anything.

Those who insist on using mismatched wheels would be better off with a hub centric wheel and flat lug nuts with washers. With wheels made to or machined to accept that style of lug nut, of course.

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Last edited by Jimmy N.; 06-06-2019 at 08:54 AM.
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post #46 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:28 AM
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Someone please go out and take off a wheel and a center cap. Then tighten up your lugs , you will see the wheel center on the lugs and come of the hub. The hub is there to help center the wheel during mounting.
As far as the 5x114.3 , when I run those wheels I do use hub centric rings to help in keeping equal deflection of the studs.
When I go back to running my weld wheels , the center bore is a good bit larger(probably ~80mm or so) than the hubs on the car. They don’t even come close to sitting on the hub. When tightened by the correct procedure, they center themselves on the , you guessed it , lugs. Most if not all modern vehicles are lug centric. With the exception of some heavy duty trucks , where you will see , the wheels fit very tightly on the hub and have flat lugs , not conical.


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post #47 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ChallyTatum View Post
Well when there is a thread where several guys like @Slidd (typically gives solid, correct info) have said that the OEM wheels are hub-centric of course there should be a debate.

https://www.challengertalk.com/forum...centric-637177

My own view of the difference between hub and lug centric aligns with this post I found. I keep seeing information that says hub centric means the wheel perfectly fits around the hub and bares the weight of the vehicle. But for that to be true the fit would need to be more of a press-fit. Also some manufacturers use plastic hub rings to take up the gap between the wheel and hub, no way those rings are supporting the weight of the vehicle.

Then there are definitions like this one from summit racing that does not mention a "perfect" fit.
https://help.summitracing.com/app/an...entric-mean%3F

I wonder if SAE has a more complete definition of what hub centric means...or if the definition changed over time as wheel/hub design evolved over time?


I get it , none of you guys need to just believe what I’m saying. And skids is usually on point, but not infallible. To end the debate all anyone of us need to do is go change a wheel and pay attention to the hub.


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post #48 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Wow.. Wasn't expecting all this.
I'd like to say something profound but I got nothin'
Except maybe this is a good example of "Ignorance is bliss."
Without all the helpful members here who took the time to help me out I probably would have just ordered something and believed their Guaranteed to fit promise and thought nothing more of it.
For my own piece of mind 5x155 bolt pattern is a must.
A bigger center bore with rings and properly torqued nuts is idk 99.99% safe?
I called several company's yesterday and was told the vision and torq thrust rims with the 5x115 pattern are being discontinued because their not selling. Makes me think about what if something happen to a rim a few yrs from now. Not being able to get a replacement would suck.

So I'm now looking for the best price on the Foose legends.
5x115 and 71.8 center bore. Near perfect fit!!!
I know several members here have them.
I'll post pics when installed.
Thanks for everyone's help.
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post #49 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronan978 View Post
Most if not all modern vehicles are lug centric. With the exception of some heavy duty trucks , where you will see , the wheels fit very tightly on the hub and have flat lugs , not conical.
Actually, heavy trucks started using hub centric hubs and wheels relatively recently, and the flat nut and washer setup was used long before that.

Light duty dual rear wheel pickups also use that style of lug nut, and are hub centric.

I'll have to go out and see if I have anything (except for the '80 Peterbilt and its trailers) that isn't hub centric.
Well, if it has stock wheels on it, that is.
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post #50 of 105 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronan978 View Post
I get it , none of you guys need to just believe what I’m saying. And skids is usually on point, but not infallible. To end the debate all anyone of us need to do is go change a wheel and pay attention to the hub.


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Believe me I know what you are saying and I total get where you are coming from. I have recently had my wheels off both my challenger and liberty (even remember my infiniti with aftermarket wheels with hub rings), but come to think of it the last time I put wheels on my challenger was when I swapped the OEM for the Demon Factory Rep wheels...so I could be remembering the fitment wrong.

I think what is unclear here is what is the true definition of hub-centric? It could very well be my definition of hub-centric is outdated or flawed from day one.

I searched the web (as you can see from my previous post) and some say it a perfect, tight fit between hub boss and wheel bore equals hub centric but other definitions say "just fit" like the one from summit. Then there are definitions that say it supports the weight of the wheel and others say it does not.

I actually have the OEM wheels in the basement and my parking brakes are due for an adjustment so maybe later today I will actually fit the OEM wheels again and see.

Last edited by ChallyTatum; 06-06-2019 at 10:15 AM.
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