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Discussion Starter #1
I finally had a good run @ 6.3 seconds
Traction control off w/ Sport Mode on How do you guys w/ v6 launch
Maybe thats with launch control on
I do not have performance pages
 

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I use a very complicated launch method...I mash the gas pedal! TC off, Sport Mode on. I tried power braking, but always spun the tires, so just stop, mash the gas got me my best time (5.9). A Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thats what I did as well. I had some wheel spin but not much
 

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Same here, traction control off and just WOT. Best time is 5.6 on a chilly day in NJ.
 
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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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Hear me now and believe me later...and now too...

Gentlemen,
Those are surely some respectable times and nothing to sneeze at. However, you can do better...all of you!

It is understandable that you are trying to improve your launches, but I would submit that even under the best conditions and when you are launching perfectly, you will not see much of an improvement in your 0-60 times. If you truly feel your launches are killing your times, get something to take the guesswork out of launching the cars for a 0-60 run (or a drag -race). Your average line-lock or similar device that comes with a built-in line-lock (or better yet, launch-mode!) will factor away any uncertainty in the launching variables.

No, I am afraid if you want to see any significant improvements in your times, you will need to invest in the proper equipment to get you there...and then invest the time and effort necessary to learn how to use that equipment and better yet - use it to your advantage at all times. The equipment to which I am referring is, of course, some sort of tuner device that will allow you to modify the car's tune to run hotter spark timings and such that can have an effect on actual power coming out the backside.

But more important that any increase they might bring in power, they will give you the ability to see what is going on with your engine when you make these runs, and if you see something off-nominal, then you can use the device to try to correct the problem and go test again...rinse and repeat, until you have KR-free datalogs from any WOT operation in your car. That is when you can truly be satisfied you have squeezed every last drop of performance out of the car as it is in its current configuration (whatever that might be).

KR is your real enemy here, and it's going on right under your noses every time you go WOT in the car. Each degree of KR the car has equates to about 7 less HP produced, and it would not surprise me if a datalog from one of your 0-60 runs had a couple different spikes of ST KR with 3-5 degrees in each, if your lucky. Get some bad gas or make the runs after sitting in traffic for a while, and I bet your datalogs would max out the STKR (5.5 degrees!) and have some LTKR showing up.

Yes, you can be down 25-35 HP during any given WOT run, and you likely won't even realize it's happening because the ECU is so good at detecting (what it thinks are) problems and dealing with them immediately to prevent damage to the engine. And once the 'danger' is no longer detected, i.e. you are no longer at WOT, the ECU reinstates the spark timings and everything else it changed to rob you of power just when you needed it most (during your 0-60 run!).

Anyway, that's my rant for the day, so I'll shut up now...but just so you don't think I'm talking to hear myself talk, I offer up some visual evidence to support my claims.

So my last Challenger had the 3.6L + A5 + 2.65 setup, and getting it into the mid-6 second range during 0-60 wasn't too difficult with the normal 1st wave of mods everyone does. So then I got myself a tuner and started running the hottest canned tune on it I could. That got me down right at the 6 second-flat mark, which is very good for that setup I will say.

Here are some pics of my best 0-60 times during that frustrating time spent trying to break the 6 second barrier:
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!AHYauEdRXYUPsMw&id=1E7AD039B9F2BE81!146664&cid=1E7AD039B9F2BE81

Finally I realized I was not going to go any faster without something drastic changing, and so I started using the tuner to datalog all my runs and then spent the time to learn how to interpret those logs and what to do to address any problems I saw in them. Combine that with some very useful knowledge gained on how the MAP/Speed Density system can be manipulated to always operate at peak accuracy when you need it most (like during 0-60 runs), and I was able to not only break that 6 second barrier, but blow right past it well into the 5 second club.

More pics of my times once everything starting coming together for me:
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!AM1Qgzz0IgPxFhY&id=1E7AD039B9F2BE81!146665&cid=1E7AD039B9F2BE81

So there you go, proof you can go faster (especially you mofo's with the A8s), you just have to want it badly enough....oh yeah, and have the extra money necessary to buy the tuner (and possibly a new PCM if 2015+) and start running nothing but 93 octane gas all the time, even on long trips! Also, you'll need to quicken up your shift times if you've got the A5, so that'll require another chunk for the appropriate device or parts swappage needed to make it happen...yep, it never ends!!

In hindsight, it's a good thing I do not have kids, as I'm quite certain this period of my life would lead to them growing up with a bitter hatred of all things automotive because of how their dad (me!) was always more interested in his stupid cars than his own kids...:laugh2:
 

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Eh, I really don't care if 5.9 is my best >:)

A Guy
 
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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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Eh, I really don't care if 5.9 is my best >:)

A Guy
But don't you see, if you do not push forward and see how much you can improve upon that time, then 5.9 doesn't just magically become your best. Your best is still out there, waiting for you to come claim it!!

5.9 just represents the point at which you decided it was not worth it to try to do any better, and so you went all French on us...

I believe in you @A Guy, and I know you can do better! You are so capable, you just have to reach deep down inside and find the "want to" to go get what is rightfully yours!!

...or you can settle for the 5.9 time, that's okay too I guess. I won't think any less of you if you choose that route.

I will however be secretly glad you are not currently working on solving world hunger or bringing an end to all wars, as noble tasks such as those are best served when the people working on them doesn't just give up once he gets his Challenger to go from 0-60 in slightly less than 6 seconds.

You're not working on something like that, are you? :8:
 

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Working on this chocolate doughnut :)

A Guy
A chocolate donut??! Okay, well, good luck with that...it seems like a fruitless effort, literally and figuratively speaking. I mean, you couldn't run one of those anywhere in the southern states and only during the winter time in the northern 48.

Plus, once the temps were cold enough, wouldn't the chocolate just start breaking off the rim when rolling over pot-holes, thereby making them useless for cold climates too?!?

More power to you for trying to invent a better mouse-trap, but it seems like having tiny spare tires made out of a sugar-laden candy treat is not actually a problem that needs immediate solving... :dunno:
 

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I whittled my way down to 5.08 0-60 before i moved on to a supercharger, between adding more power, better gearing and traction mods. running a better street tire helps out a lot, I ran some soft nitto invo's tires on the rear, corrected the neg camber to only having about .25 degrees of neg camber, cut 1 coil off the rear springs, took the front sway bar off, ported the intake manifold, put on a larger mandrel bent exhaust that was a straight thru design, run 91 octane fuel and custom tune, larger throttle body, and a fender pull cai, higher shift point and what ever else I might be forgetting. cut my 1/4 mile time from a stock 15.2 to 13.97 in a 2000 plus DA at over 100 mph. with a supercharger and drag radials ran 4.0 0-60 times and mid 12's on my proving grounds in good air on days when I couldn't get good air at the track. that's how I did it.
 

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Gentlemen,
Those are surely some respectable times and nothing to sneeze at. However, you can do better...all of you!

It is understandable that you are trying to improve your launches, but I would submit that even under the best conditions and when you are launching perfectly, you will not see much of an improvement in your 0-60 times. If you truly feel your launches are killing your times, get something to take the guesswork out of launching the cars for a 0-60 run (or a drag -race). Your average line-lock or similar device that comes with a built-in line-lock (or better yet, launch-mode!) will factor away any uncertainty in the launching variables.

No, I am afraid if you want to see any significant improvements in your times, you will need to invest in the proper equipment to get you there...and then invest the time and effort necessary to learn how to use that equipment and better yet - use it to your advantage at all times. The equipment to which I am referring is, of course, some sort of tuner device that will allow you to modify the car's tune to run hotter spark timings and such that can have an effect on actual power coming out the backside.

But more important that any increase they might bring in power, they will give you the ability to see what is going on with your engine when you make these runs, and if you see something off-nominal, then you can use the device to try to correct the problem and go test again...rinse and repeat, until you have KR-free datalogs from any WOT operation in your car. That is when you can truly be satisfied you have squeezed every last drop of performance out of the car as it is in its current configuration (whatever that might be).

KR is your real enemy here, and it's going on right under your noses every time you go WOT in the car. Each degree of KR the car has equates to about 7 less HP produced, and it would not surprise me if a datalog from one of your 0-60 runs had a couple different spikes of ST KR with 3-5 degrees in each, if your lucky. Get some bad gas or make the runs after sitting in traffic for a while, and I bet your datalogs would max out the STKR (5.5 degrees!) and have some LTKR showing up.

Yes, you can be down 25-35 HP during any given WOT run, and you likely won't even realize it's happening because the ECU is so good at detecting (what it thinks are) problems and dealing with them immediately to prevent damage to the engine. And once the 'danger' is no longer detected, i.e. you are no longer at WOT, the ECU reinstates the spark timings and everything else it changed to rob you of power just when you needed it most (during your 0-60 run!).

Anyway, that's my rant for the day, so I'll shut up now...but just so you don't think I'm talking to hear myself talk, I offer up some visual evidence to support my claims.

So my last Challenger had the 3.6L + A5 + 2.65 setup, and getting it into the mid-6 second range during 0-60 wasn't too difficult with the normal 1st wave of mods everyone does. So then I got myself a tuner and started running the hottest canned tune on it I could. That got me down right at the 6 second-flat mark, which is very good for that setup I will say.

Here are some pics of my best 0-60 times during that frustrating time spent trying to break the 6 second barrier:
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!AHYauEdRXYUPsMw&id=1E7AD039B9F2BE81!146664&cid=1E7AD039B9F2BE81

Finally I realized I was not going to go any faster without something drastic changing, and so I started using the tuner to datalog all my runs and then spent the time to learn how to interpret those logs and what to do to address any problems I saw in them. Combine that with some very useful knowledge gained on how the MAP/Speed Density system can be manipulated to always operate at peak accuracy when you need it most (like during 0-60 runs), and I was able to not only break that 6 second barrier, but blow right past it well into the 5 second club.

More pics of my times once everything starting coming together for me:
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!AM1Qgzz0IgPxFhY&id=1E7AD039B9F2BE81!146665&cid=1E7AD039B9F2BE81

So there you go, proof you can go faster (especially you mofo's with the A8s), you just have to want it badly enough....oh yeah, and have the extra money necessary to buy the tuner (and possibly a new PCM if 2015+) and start running nothing but 93 octane gas all the time, even on long trips! Also, you'll need to quicken up your shift times if you've got the A5, so that'll require another chunk for the appropriate device or parts swappage needed to make it happen...yep, it never ends!!

In hindsight, it's a good thing I do not have kids, as I'm quite certain this period of my life would lead to them growing up with a bitter hatred of all things automotive because of how their dad (me!) was always more interested in his stupid cars than his own kids...:laugh2:
For those of us who don't know, splains this STKR, LTKR and any other terms that might be nice to know. Please?
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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For those of us who don't know, splains this STKR, LTKR and any other terms that might be nice to know. Please?
KR is Knock Retard, and it refers to a reduction in timing (spark timing, spark advance, etc.) that your car’s computer will use to combat (what it believes to be) dangerous operating conditions within the engine’s cylinders and combustion chambers.

When excessive knock, aka detonation, is detected by the knock sensors and relayed to the ECU, it will automatically begin to retard the timing in an attempt to reduce that knock. The more knock that is detected, the more timing gets retarded. And it is that amount of timing adjustment which is quantified in degrees and called KR when it happens.

As long as the amount of KR is less than 7 degrees for any one instance, the KR is limited to being Short Term KR (ST KR), which means it is temporary in nature. Once the conditions that lead to the knock are no longer present (going from WOT to non-WOT for example), the ST KR goes away and the spark timing is returned to previous settings.

However, if the knock is severe enough, and 7.0 degrees of KR is not enough to arrest the amount of knock going on, then more timing is pulled on a semi-permanent basis, and that is called Long Term KR (LT KR). So if 10 total degrees of timing had to be pulled to stop all the knock, you would see 7.0 degrees of LT KR and 3.0 degrees of ST KR in the data logs.

LT KR is NOT something you want to see in your datalogs BTW. If you have any LT KR going on, then you have something seriously mal-adjusted in the tune, you’re running the wrong octane for the tune, and/or there is a mechanical problem that needs to be diagnosed and fixed asap. One 5 degree spike of LT KR on a really hot day when you're running cheap gas is bad, but you are probably fine. A 3-5 degree spike of LT KR in every WOT datalog you generate is bad though...really bad. You would want to stop going WOT until you figured out why - type of bad.

Anyway, all that is a long-winded way to say that a really simple way to think of things is that spark advance == performance. The more you advance the spark timing, the more performance you will get. But the spark can only be advanced so far before it exceeds the engine’s capabilities, the gasoline’s octane, and/or the operating conditions currently present at that time.

And once you exceed any one of those, you will start getting knock. And once you get any knock, your car’s computer will automatically reduce the spark advance. And following the earlier equation of more spark advance == more power, reducing the spark timing means a reduction in performance.

How much of a reduction? The rule of thumb you can follow is 5-7 HP is lost for every degree of KR. So if you have a 5 degree spike of ST KR during a 0-60 run, you can count on your car trying to accelerate to 60 mph while missing 25-35 HP that it should have had (may have had previously) if no KR were present. That’s enough to make a difference, I assure you.

If you don’t have the ability to datalog your WOT runs, you can still tell sometimes if you’re experiencing KR at WOT, but you have to pay very close attention to how the engine is winding up when it's at WOT. An engine at WOT and winding up RPMs should be relatively even and smooth, even as it approaches the redline auto-shift @6250 RPM. But if the engine is experiencing KR and having its timing pulled, you will feel that manifest itself as an ever-so-slight stutter or hesitation, especially as you near the redline auto-shift. Make enough WOT runs and get to know your car well enough, and you can get to where you can feel it anytime > 2 degrees of KR is present.

Or get yourself a tuner and start datalogging your WOT runs. That’s the best way to know what is going on with the engine. There is a wealth of information available to you about what is going on in that engine, and those datalogs will reveal it all to you if you take the time to learn to read them.

Or don’t, that’s certainly cheaper and less time consuming...but what were you going to do with your time and money anway? Put in a pool? Take a trip to the Bahamas??

Nevermind those useless pursuits! Get yourself a tuner and become ONE with your car!! :grin2:
 

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For those of us who don't know, splains this STKR, LTKR and any other terms that might be nice to know. Please?
He's from Texas, that's just how they talk >:)

A Guy
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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For example, here is a portion of a WOT datalog I recorded back when I first started modding my last Challenger - the 2011 with 3.6+A5+2.65:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The white line is the vehicle speed, and the lowest point on the left is approximately 30 mph, with the peak point on the right side being approximately 120 mph. Now I had just installed a new aftermarket CAI on the car (Injen), and while it sounded awesome with that thing on it, I could feel the car pulling timing at the top end. The thought of losing performance by adding a supposed power-adding mod drove me crazy, so I eventually got a tuner and began datalogging. That datalog above is one of the first I generated with it.

Notice the thick, dark pink jagged line that becomes more severe as the RPMs (and vehicle speed) increase? That's ST KR. The largest spike was only 5 degrees, but the fact that it was happening over most of the WOT operation meant I was never utilizing the full power of the engine and its mods without being hamstrung by the ECU and the blasted KR.

Now KR isn't (usually) arbitrary. That KR was showing up for a reason, and it actually did have something to do with the CAI I had installed...actually, it had a LOT to do with it. But that's another story for another time.

My point is, the possibility exists for you too to have such automatic HP reduction going on while you're making your 0-60 runs, and you wouldn't even normally know it. So if you've done the best you can with your car and you're still a few tenths of a second short of where you think it should be in the 0-60 mph runs, this is very likely a contributing factor to what's holding the car back. Finding and addressing whatever was causing that KR would be the best way to increase the car's quickness, since you would be just reclaiming what was already there and not trying to add more power than what it already had.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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He's from Texas, that's just how they talk >:)

A Guy
you're half-right...I am from Texas, but that is not how I talk. I actually speak very well and enunciate quite clearly. You might even say I have been putting that technical writing minor I got in college to good use since graduation!

That being said, I will give you a gold star for almost getting both. While it isn't how I speak, it is how I think . :up_to_something:
 
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