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Discussion Starter #3
^
Thank you for the post.

I assume you are looking for 17" RWL tires on your Challenger and if that's the case, no. All the tires that will fit your application in 17" are Truck/SUV rated. This is perfectly fine though for your car assuming proper speed rating.

-Matt
Damn that blows.
Yes, they're for my Challenger & I'm probably interested in 225/65-17 in the front & 235/70-17 in the rear. What options do you have that are all-season, have a good speed rating & do not look like truck tires?
Thanks!
 

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^
Unfortunately there are no matching tire combinations with RWLs in the tire sizes you listed. Also, the 235/70-17 is a tight fit in the rear being that it's almost 2" taller in diameter when compared to the OEM size.

My suggestion if you want to run a tire model with white letters is to go with 235/65-17's on all 4 corners. In this size General offers their Grabber HTS which is a pretty tame tread design.

**Please note that this model has OWL and is still somewhat of a tight fitment which means you may (and I stress MAY) need to do some minor trimming.

-Matt
 

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So Matt, with all the retro Mustangs, Challengers and semi-retro Camaros out there, when will tire manufactures get the hint and start making RWL again?

I know that there is a sizable group of folks that would jump on them if they were available in 'modern' sizes. There has to be half a dozen threads on this board alone about them. Being from a large distributor, you guys have their ear. Are you (and other distributors) talking to them about this market they are completely missing?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
^
Unfortunately there are no matching tire combinations with RWLs in the tire sizes you listed. Also, the 235/70-17 is a tight fit in the rear being that it's almost 2" taller in diameter when compared to the OEM size.

My suggestion if you want to run a tire model with white letters is to go with 235/65-17's on all 4 corners. In this size General offers their Grabber HTS which is a pretty tame tread design.

**Please note that this model has OWL and is still somewhat of a tight fitment which means you may (and I stress MAY) need to do some minor trimming.

-Matt
OWL = Outlined White Lettering. Correct?

If so, I wouldn't go with it, since I want RWL.

Ditto to http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/members/3144.htmlSpencer60's question.
 

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So Matt, with all the retro Mustangs, Challengers and semi-retro Camaros out there, when will tire manufactures get the hint and start making RWL again?

I know that there is a sizable group of folks that would jump on them if they were available in 'modern' sizes. There has to be half a dozen threads on this board alone about them. Being from a large distributor, you guys have their ear. Are you (and other distributors) talking to them about this market they are completely missing?
Nitto actually tried this a while back when the Retro-Mustang came back. If you remember, they had their 420RDL (red line) model. This was not a popular tire even though Mustang Consumers were asking for them.

The tire manufacturers have an eye and ear on the boards so they are pretty good about producing models people want to drive on.

From what I've seen on the boards (we sponsor around 170) the Challenger guys are the ones asking for a white letter tire. This isn't to say that other car model guys aren't, but it's mainly the Challenger owners asking.

I have an idea...


OWL = Outlined White Lettering. Correct?

If so, I wouldn't go with it, since I want RWL.

Ditto to Spencer60's question.
Correct.

Not sure why it's listed this way but the tire is actually ORWL or Outlined Raised White Letters.



To the best of my knowledge, there are no raised white letter tires in any size applicable to your application.

-Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Correct.

Not sure why it's listed this way but the tire is actually ORWL or Outlined Raised White Letters.



To the best of my knowledge, there are no raised white letter tires in any size applicable to your application.

-Matt
Anything that'll work in Goodyear?

How is this General compared to the BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour?

Thanks!
 

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Nitto actually tried this a while back when the Retro-Mustang came back. If you remember, they had their 420RDL (red line) model. This was not a popular tire even though Mustang Consumers were asking for them.
I could see that, but red-lines are a completely different look than RWL. Much more subtle, and if you don't know the history behind them, not that interesting visually. From what I just saw recently, some specialty dealers still carry quite a few red-line styles (Nitto and a couple of others), all the way up to 22", so they didn't stop making them.

From what I've seen on the boards (we sponsor around 170) the Challenger guys are the ones asking for a white letter tire. This isn't to say that other car model guys aren't, but it's mainly the Challenger owners asking.
That could also be true. I think a lot of us Challenger folks may be veterans of the first muscle car wars, and remember that RWL look more fondly than the younger crowd (who may tend more towards Mustangs and Camaros anyway). But with the addition of the Camaro now, I would think there would be a market across all three, even if it was only for old-fogys like me.

Thanks for the link though. I put a lot of time into tire-hunting this spring, but haven't really kept up with it once I found some 'acceptable' blackwalls (through your store no less).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
...I think a lot of us Challenger folks may be veterans of the first muscle car wars, and remember that RWL look more fondly than the younger crowd (who may tend more towards Mustangs and Camaros anyway). But with the addition of the Camaro now, I would think there would be a market across all three, even if it was only for old-fogys like me...
Sadly, I feel this is exactly why we won't be seeing RWL tires. :(
 

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Anything that'll work in Goodyear?

How is this General compared to the BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour?

Thanks!
Goodyear offers their SRA and Wrangler Silent Armor in the 235/70-17 size. Both models come with the ROWL sidewall and are geared for off-road use. Here's the link with more details on these models.

Tire Products - Discount Tire Direct

The General Grabber is very comparable to the Long Trail T/A Tour. The Grabber has a more street friendly tread and IMO, rides quieter and smoother. The General also uses staple sipes which typyally does better in wet and snow conditions.


I could see that, but red-lines are a completely different look than RWL. Much more subtle, and if you don't know the history behind them, not that interesting visually. From what I just saw recently, some specialty dealers still carry quite a few red-line styles (Nitto and a couple of others), all the way up to 22", so they didn't stop making them.
I'm with you 100%. The Red-Line is a completley different look no doubt.

My point was that the Mustang Enthusiast asked for this type of tire and it did not sell well. At least the Nitto 420RDL didn't. Nitto hasn't made this model for a while now so if someone is selling them, it's older stock.

-Matt
 

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...My point was that the Mustang Enthusiast asked for this type of tire and it did not sell well. At least the Nitto 420RDL didn't. Nitto hasn't made this model for a while now so if someone is selling them, it's older stock.
-Matt
Gotcha. I agree that RWL tires probably won't be a huge seller, so if the criteria is a million units, we'll never see them.

On the other hand, there's a few specialty tire shops out there (Coker comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others) that make a very good living off of specialty tires.

And then there's the 'this tire was made specifically for this supercar' sizes that can't sell more than a few hundred units (although I'm sure the pricing is crazy-high).

It just seems to me that any manufacturer could add the RW Lettering for a minimal additional cost, and charge a premium that would make them very profitable, even if they didn't sell a ton of units.

It sounds like none of the big guys will be looking at this any time soon though. Too bad. Maybe one of the smaller tire companies out there will step up.
 

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Gotcha. I agree that RWL tires probably won't be a huge seller, so if the criteria is a million units, we'll never see them.

On the other hand, there's a few specialty tire shops out there (Coker comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others) that make a very good living off of specialty tires.

And then there's the 'this tire was made specifically for this supercar' sizes that can't sell more than a few hundred units (although I'm sure the pricing is crazy-high).

It just seems to me that any manufacturer could add the RW Lettering for a minimal additional cost, and charge a premium that would make them very profitable, even if they didn't sell a ton of units.

It sounds like none of the big guys will be looking at this any time soon though. Too bad. Maybe one of the smaller tire companies out there will step up.
You bring up some excellent points.

There are other manufacturers who specialize in white letter/white wall designs like Coker Tire (which you mentioned) and Diamond Back Tire. But for todays performance vehicles that demand higher speed ratings, there's not much out there.

One of the biggest issues I see for tire manufacturers is how to build a white letter into a low profile tire. The construction behind a white wall tire is somewhat complicated and in lower profile sizes, will most likely cause the white letters to crack do to the sidewall height and flex.

Like the General Grabber Red Letter (truck tire) they could vulcanize a patch to the sidewall but IMO, this will not be very appealing cosmetically.

-Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OK, I have no choice but to accept that my wish for RWL tires will be left unfulfilled.

How about Goodyear all-season tires that are the stock P215/65R-17 size in front & slightly bigger/beefier tires in back to give it the old-school appearance?
What do you suggest?

Thanks again.
 

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OK, I have no choice but to accept that my wish for RWL tires will be left unfulfilled.

How about Goodyear all-season tires that are the stock P215/65R-17 size in front & slightly bigger/beefier tires in back to give it the old-school appearance?
What do you suggest?

Thanks again.
Your best option is to run 215/65-17s in the front with 225/65-17s in the rear. Goodyear offers a few different all season models in these sizes but with matching speed ratings, the only option is the Assurance Fuel Max.

-Matt
 

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...One of the biggest issues I see for tire manufacturers is how to build a white letter into a low profile tire...
-Matt
You're right, it would have to be a 'normal' profile tire. But that would be OK, since you wouldn't want a RWL low-profile tire anyways. It would just look goofy with the teeny-tiny lettering.

While it did take me a while, I did find some good tires that had (what I consider) a reasonable sidewall height for a car this retro-looking. About the same aspect ratio as the old bias plys that came w/ Gen-1 muscle cars. These could take a RWL and look just as good as the old ones did.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Your best option is to run 215/65-17s in the front with 225/65-17s in the rear. Goodyear offers a few different all season models in these sizes but with matching speed ratings, the only option is the Assurance Fuel Max.

-Matt
Matt, I've come to realize that my desire for RWL and/or staggered tires isn't going to work the way I hoped.

I'm on to option three: Does anyone make a redline tire in size 225/65R17?

Thanks!
 
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