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2014 Dodge Challenger SRT 392
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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve just purchased a new 180 thermostat from Steve white motors and I would like to know what setting should I set it to with my diablosport tuner?


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Why not just lower it by 20 and leave the factory T-stat in the engine?

(That's sort of what I did when I got my 2006 GTO. I bought a Predator tool and tweaked the fan stage settings to get the fan (or fans there might have been two) to run a bit faster and I may have lowered the engine temperature thresholds a bit, too. Also, used it to "kill" that silly skip shift annoyance.)
 

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2013 SRT8
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I used info provided on HHP’s website. http://www.highhorseperformance.com/HHP_180_Degree_Thermostat_10183_p/10183-usps.htm

RECOMMENDED FAN SETTINGS FOR USE WITH THE DIABLO TUNING:
In order to take full advantage of your HHP 180 degree thermostat, on applicable vehicles with adjustable fan settings, we recommend the following fan temperature adjustments on your Diablosport tuner. Set All 9 Fan Settings (both Air Condition On and AC Off) to:
All HS (High Speed) Fan Settings to 194 Degrees
All LS (Low Speed) Fan Settings to 189 Degrees
All MS (Med. Speed) Fan Settings to 192 Degrees


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Why not just lower it by 20 and leave the factory T-stat in the engine?

(That's sort of what I did when I got my 2006 GTO. I bought a Predator tool and tweaked the fan stage settings to get the fan (or fans there might have been two) to run a bit faster and I may have lowered the engine temperature thresholds a bit, too. Also, used it to "kill" that silly skip shift annoyance.)


If you simply lower the fan settings, all you will be doing is having the fans come on earlier and running more. Which will result in premature fan failure. The fans will spin more but, the 203 degree t-stat still will not open earlier to allow coolant to flow at a lower temperature. I hope this helps explain it.


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rule of thumb set the on and off points lower by 20 degrees, each, and if equipped with 2 fans, do the same for both
Luke
 

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If you simply lower the fan settings, all you will be doing is having the fans come on earlier and running more. Which will result in premature fan failure. The fans will spin more but, the 203 degree t-stat still will not open earlier to allow coolant to flow at a lower temperature. I hope this helps explain it.


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With lowered trigger temperatures the fans will come on sooner but only if the temperature trigger is hit. Around town driving the fans come on but on the highway one can drive for a long time and the fans stay off. The amount of additional time the fans run I think is insignificant.

Besides, I don't think these fan motors are all that delicate. During all my car ownership of cars with electric fans, in only one case has a fan motor failed or acted up. In 317K miles on my Boxster I never had a fan motor wear out. Had a ballast resister fail which caused the fan to run at high speed whenever it was on. In 161K miles on my Turbo a radiator fan motor shaft snapped -- tech said he never saw this kind of failure before -- (and was replaced under warranty) and later the driver side motor ran but the fan wasn't blowing the same amount of air. Tech checked and found the fan motor drawing more current than the other side and I had him replace the fan motor. This is the only fan motor that failed, or acted up. The fan motor (or motors) on my 2006 GTO were fine after almost 40K miles. My Golf TDi with around 140K miles likewise the fan motors were fine.

My Hellcat I guess has a 203F T-Stat but the coolant temperature seems to stay pretty much in that range but of course under some driving conditions -- around town -- climbing to 212F but not remaining there for long. On the highway/freeway the coolant temperature drops to under 203F. I've seen it go down to 199F.

Lab studies have found engine wear rates go up as engine oil temperature goes down. Installing a low temperature T-stat is likely to keep the oil temperature lower longer -- the engine takes longer to come up to temperature -- to where the oil is less effective at lubricating the engine. Think I'll just stick with the factory T-stat.
 

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With lowered trigger temperatures the fans will come on sooner but only if the temperature trigger is hit. Around town driving the fans come on but on the highway one can drive for a long time and the fans stay off. The amount of additional time the fans run I think is insignificant.

Besides, I don't think these fan motors are all that delicate. During all my car ownership of cars with electric fans, in only one case has a fan motor failed or acted up. In 317K miles on my Boxster I never had a fan motor wear out. Had a ballast resister fail which caused the fan to run at high speed whenever it was on. In 161K miles on my Turbo a radiator fan motor shaft snapped -- tech said he never saw this kind of failure before -- (and was replaced under warranty) and later the driver side motor ran but the fan wasn't blowing the same amount of air. Tech checked and found the fan motor drawing more current than the other side and I had him replace the fan motor. This is the only fan motor that failed, or acted up. The fan motor (or motors) on my 2006 GTO were fine after almost 40K miles. My Golf TDi with around 140K miles likewise the fan motors were fine.

My Hellcat I guess has a 203F T-Stat but the coolant temperature seems to stay pretty much in that range but of course under some driving conditions -- around town -- climbing to 212F but not remaining there for long. On the highway/freeway the coolant temperature drops to under 203F. I've seen it go down to 199F.

Lab studies have found engine wear rates go up as engine oil temperature goes down. Installing a low temperature T-stat is likely to keep the oil temperature lower longer -- the engine takes longer to come up to temperature -- to where the oil is less effective at lubricating the engine. Think I'll just stick with the factory T-stat.


The point being, just lowering the fans doesn’t do anything if you are wanting lower engine temps.


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If I understand this one installs a lower temperature T-stat, which opens at around 20F lower temperature than the T-stat it replaces, then on top of this one lowers by 20F the temperature at which the radiator fan is operated?

A 20F lowering of the radiator fan activation temperature is a huge change. (One has to wonder what a 20F lowering of the radiator fan activation temperature would do with the factory T-stat present.)

I've been through this before with other cars. That is while I've not installed a lower temperature T-stat -- years ago my auto tech buddies told me it was ill advised to do this because the T-stat plays no real role in how hot the coolant gets above the T-stat's opening temperature -- I've sat back and watched others do this and then report. Invariably at some point when the car is pushed hard the coolant temperature gets as hot as it ever did. A lower temperature T-stat just means the engine runs cooler under light to moderate loads -- where most street cars spend about 99% of their time -- as the engine with the lower temperature T-stat never gets up to temperature. This is mistaken for better cooling when it is not that at all. It is over cooling. But make the engine really work and one then learns if he wants to lower the peak temperature he needs to add more cooling capacity leaving the T-stat alone to avoid running the engine too cool -- or make the existing system cool more effectively. (That 20F drop in radiator fan activation temperature essentially makes the existing system cool more effectively. Passes more air through the radiator.)

IOWs the factory T-stat sets a limit on how cool the engine coolant temperature gets. It is the cooling system effectiveness that limits how hot the engine coolant temperature gets.

With some cars when the factory requires more cooling capacity to deal with a higher output engine it installs more radiators.

So far I have not had the opportunity to drive my Hellcat in high ambient temperatures but with say my Boxster the hottest the coolant temperature got was 226F. At this point the engine was generating as much heat as it could and the cooling system was able to remove enough of it that the coolant temperature stabilized.

(As some kind of experiment I got the coolant temperature up to 226F by pushing the Boxster hard on curvy mountain road running the engine at high RPMs and using lots of throttle. The ambient temperature was in the 90's. Once the coolant temperature got to 226F at a convenient place on the road I pulled over and raised the engine RPMs to around 2K and held the RPMs steady for a while. The radiator fans were running at high speed of course (they switched to high speed when the coolant temperature climbed to 216F) but even at a standstill the radiator fans and radiators were able to deal with the heat load the engine was generating. After I realized I was not going to be able to raise the coolant temperature I let the engine speed drop to idle. I watched the coolant temperature fall until it got to 205F and the fans shut off.)

My Turbo was less affected by high ambient temperatures. Among other things it had a 3rd radiator and as a result the engine coolant temperature never got that hot, not nearly as hot as the Boxster, because of this.

Had the Boxster water pump and T-stat replaced once and I had the old hardware around for a while but I don't recall the temperature stamped on the T-stat but it was in the 80C to 90C range, I'm sure at 226F the factory T-Stat was wide open.

With my Hellcat I have been data logging some engine telemetry (including coolant temperature) since I bought the car. I need to remember to remove the data logger and download the data. Was going to to leave the Hellcat at home today and Friday but I think I'll drive it today -- finding it hard to not drive the Hellcat and any excuse is reason enough to drive it... -- so I can remove the data logger at the office and download the data. I'm curious as to what for instance the coolant temperature has been doing when I haven't been watching it.
 

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2014 Dodge Challenger SRT 392
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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the input guys I installed the 180 thermostat yesterday and without lowering my fan settings it stayed cooled without adjusting
My diablo(93 Octane)tune




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If I understand this one installs a lower temperature T-stat, which opens at around 20F lower temperature than the T-stat it replaces, then on top of this one lowers by 20F the temperature at which the radiator fan is operated?

A 20F lowering of the radiator fan activation temperature is a huge change. (One has to wonder what a 20F lowering of the radiator fan activation temperature would do with the factory T-stat present.)

I've been through this before with other cars. That is while I've not installed a lower temperature T-stat -- years ago my auto tech buddies told me it was ill advised to do this because the T-stat plays no real role in how hot the coolant gets above the T-stat's opening temperature -- I've sat back and watched others do this and then report. Invariably at some point when the car is pushed hard the coolant temperature gets as hot as it ever did. A lower temperature T-stat just means the engine runs cooler under light to moderate loads -- where most street cars spend about 99% of their time -- as the engine with the lower temperature T-stat never gets up to temperature. This is mistaken for better cooling when it is not that at all. It is over cooling. But make the engine really work and one then learns if he wants to lower the peak temperature he needs to add more cooling capacity leaving the T-stat alone to avoid running the engine too cool -- or make the existing system cool more effectively. (That 20F drop in radiator fan activation temperature essentially makes the existing system cool more effectively. Passes more air through the radiator.)

IOWs the factory T-stat sets a limit on how cool the engine coolant temperature gets. It is the cooling system effectiveness that limits how hot the engine coolant temperature gets.

With some cars when the factory requires more cooling capacity to deal with a higher output engine it installs more radiators.

So far I have not had the opportunity to drive my Hellcat in high ambient temperatures but with say my Boxster the hottest the coolant temperature got was 226F. At this point the engine was generating as much heat as it could and the cooling system was able to remove enough of it that the coolant temperature stabilized.

(As some kind of experiment I got the coolant temperature up to 226F by pushing the Boxster hard on curvy mountain road running the engine at high RPMs and using lots of throttle. The ambient temperature was in the 90's. Once the coolant temperature got to 226F at a convenient place on the road I pulled over and raised the engine RPMs to around 2K and held the RPMs steady for a while. The radiator fans were running at high speed of course (they switched to high speed when the coolant temperature climbed to 216F) but even at a standstill the radiator fans and radiators were able to deal with the heat load the engine was generating. After I realized I was not going to be able to raise the coolant temperature I let the engine speed drop to idle. I watched the coolant temperature fall until it got to 205F and the fans shut off.)

My Turbo was less affected by high ambient temperatures. Among other things it had a 3rd radiator and as a result the engine coolant temperature never got that hot, not nearly as hot as the Boxster, because of this.

Had the Boxster water pump and T-stat replaced once and I had the old hardware around for a while but I don't recall the temperature stamped on the T-stat but it was in the 80C to 90C range, I'm sure at 226F the factory T-Stat was wide open.

With my Hellcat I have been data logging some engine telemetry (including coolant temperature) since I bought the car. I need to remember to remove the data logger and download the data. Was going to to leave the Hellcat at home today and Friday but I think I'll drive it today -- finding it hard to not drive the Hellcat and any excuse is reason enough to drive it... -- so I can remove the data logger at the office and download the data. I'm curious as to what for instance the coolant temperature has been doing when I haven't been watching it.


These cars are designed to run “hot” for emission purposes from factory. With the 180* stat the engine will still run at operating temps. It also helps keep oil temp down by a bit which helps. Especially when driving on a road course or similar. With lowering the fans by 20* the coolant temp will stay between 184 to 195 ish. I used to track my car and never saw my coolant temp go past 200*. Even on a hot above 100* so cal weather. It helped my oil temp as well. 260* max. Tracked it for a few years and never had any issues. I was also told by Sean aka “Hemifever” that installing a 180* stat is recommended and helps reduce KR.
 

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Just an FYI
Our cars only have high and low. No medium.
Yup but even on the stock tune the medium setting is populated (set same as high speed setting). Not sure why HPP gives a different medium setting unless they are trying to cover vehicles with multi speed fan settings? :dunno:
 

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