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Discussion Starter #1
did my 1st oil change on the scat pack @ 1500 miles... i actually found a few small metal flakes at the bottom of the drain container
is this normal on the 1st oil changes ??
 

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I don’t think that is out of the ordinary. New engines have the break in period where a lot of moving parts bed in. A small amount of metal residue is expected.
 

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Yes. If you had cut open the filter and unrolled the filter element you would have probably scared yourself silly. With my Porsche engines, the oil filter is a canister type and the filter element is naked. The amount of trash the filter collects from a new engine is simply amazing. And the amount of trash that remains in the oil filter canister oil is amazing too.

I could post a pic of the oil from the filter canister of my new (back in early 2009) 2008 Cayman S after just 750 miles. The oil looked like some kind of dull metal flake paint it was so full of fine aluminum particles. The next oil change down not quite 750 miles later showed just a tiny trace of metal flake in the oil but it didn't photograph. At 2K miles -- 500 miles later and at the end of "break in" -- I had the oil changed at the dealer. Didn't even bother to look at the oil.

The new engine will continue to shed bits of metal as you drive the car. There is a filter which catches this stuff. But at some point this will fall off quite a bit.

Just adhere to the Dodge break in guidelines and my advice would be to change the oil again at least at the end of "break in".
 

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Discussion Starter #4
i kinda figured that was normal on the 1st few oil changes ... i remember on my 1996 mustang cobra i would see alot of metal flakes in the oil and some where actually pretty good size. i bet some people don't even look at the oil when doing a change.
do you think most of the flaking would be aluminum or metal ? i had a couple tiny pcs. that were metal that stick to a magnet i had...
 

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At the risk of stating the obvious, if the block (and heads) is iron most of the metal will be ferrous. If the block (and heads, as was the case with my Cayman S engine) is aluminum, most of the metal will be aluminum.

As an (ex) journeyman machinist I can tell you a freshly machined iron or aluminum (or nearly any other material from magnesium to titanium, from copper to hard chrome, from rubber to glass, from paper to graphite -- over the years I machined them all and then some) surface will shed debris even if one rubs his hand over the surface.

Heck, when I did the first oil check of my Hellcat's engine I used a white paper towel to dry the dip stick and the towel came away with some grey on it the dip stick (cable type) shed some metal.

Just the violence of the oil will dislodge some stuff. So the block walls, underside of the valve covers, all the head surfaces exposed to oil, the rods, crank, pistons, cam, lifters, etc will shed debris. Most of this will be fine particles, but in some cases -- with aluminum heads and block -- the cast processing can result in rather large pieces of relatively thin aluminum coming loose. As the aluminum flows into the mold it can splash against the wall of the mold. This results in a very thin coating of aluminum on the mold wall then as the mold fills of course the casting obtains its full/final shape. But this initial splash can result in a foil like piece of aluminum that can at some point over the miles break loose. If it makes its way to the oil pan it can get pulled into the oil pump. The gears will pulverize this piece of aluminum into a bunch of tinier pieces. These end up in the filter.

If the stuff remains in the pan some can flow out when the oil is drained.

And of course where there are sliding, rotating metal surfaces separated only by a very thin layer of oil this will certainly remove any loose particles of metal. (This is part of the "break in" process.)

Thus arises the reasoning behind my recommendation unless forbidden by the owner manual for one (or more) oil changes as the engine advances from brand new to broken in. My concern is if there is an oil bypass valve upon cold start (or real high RPMs when the engine is up to temperature) could route unfiltered oil to the engine. (The Porsche engine oil bypass valve is in the oil pump so excessive oil is routed to the intake side of the oil pump.)

Besides the accumulation of particulate matter there is too the contamination of the oil. When just curious I had the factory fill oil with around 4K miles from new analyzed -- this with my then new 2002 Boxster -- the analysis found around 7% water in the oil. At around 9 quarts total oil capacity this works out to around 1/2 quart of water. One has to wonder how the engine would have fared had I adhered to the Porsche oil change interval of 15K miles (and 30K miles for the filter). vs. changing both every 5K miles.
 

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Casting flash is often the majority of normal metal in the oil on a new engine. A Guy
 

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Casting flash is often the majority of normal metal in the oil on a new engine. A Guy
Yep. When I bought a used engine for my Datsun 510 and rebuilt it what I did was with the bare cast iron block before sending it out to be bored I took an air die grinder and smoothed the inside of the block to help the oil drain down the walls faster. Even though the engine was used there was considerable fairly loose material that I'm sure over the miles would have separated from the block walls and ended up in the oil.

More recently a few years ago when my Boxster had a cam shaft cover off to address a bad VarioCam solenoid/actuator and I could view the cam shaft cover up close the surface that was directly over the cam chain/sprockets had a smoother surface from being blasted with oil slung off the cam chain and sprockets than the other areas of the cam shaft cover that didn't get constantly blasted with oil. One can be sure that smoother surface resulted in a small but rather steady stream -- so to speak -- of aluminum that ended up on the oil.
 
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