[jblues]

Wanted some opinions before talking to shop again.

Story:
I have a 5.7l 6spd manual with 35000 miles on it. I never hold my clutch open, always in and out of it, I have had a few fun days, but just quick start type of stuff (no extended burnouts or anything). I typically drive in low RPM range. A lot of those miles were town driving.

Friday I was driving an a car slowed in front of me to turn. I slowed and didn't come to a complete stop, had clutch in, and started in second gear since I was still rolling, released clutch, pushed clutch in and when I shifted from 2nd - 3rd, a pop sound (not sure if this happened during before or after releasing clutch. lots of metal on metal (bolts in tin can shaking) sounds. I pushed clutch in quickly and it would not move out of 3rd gear to neutral. got it pulled over, shut car off, when I pushed the start button, shifter released, as engine cranked, more metal on metal bouncing clanking parts sounds. I shut if off immediately and called tow truck. I never tried to get it back in 1st and release clutch just scared I would hurt something more.

Dealer is busy and has not had time to get to it yet, They did say they push started it, and put it in gear to drive it around back. Said something about that means clutch isn't entirely gone? but seemed to be leaning toward the clutch as the problem. Car has lifetime warranty, but of course clutch would not be covered in that.

I don't know enough about cars, to argue one way or the other, but wanted some opinions and thoughts.

I have had a clutch go out in a previous car, and it didn't explode like this, it simply started slipping and not allowing me to move shifter all the way into gear, would rev high but not allow car to move and so on... My Challenger has never had a problem getting into gear, never noticed a slipping clutch, nothing, no warning signs at all, just pop & very bad noises.

 

[sepipr21]

they can explode like you said. Usually they just start slipping first, but sometimes brake like that. I had a similar experience in an Audi A4 I had, it was not the clutch, but the part that connected the clutch it was fairly inexpensive to fix.

 

[bwbike]

Make sure they show you the bad parts. Pictures would be even better to post on here. Clutches rarely fail catastrophically (hard launches excluded), but it can happen.

 

[stamatz]

TREMEC = MAJOR FAIL!

My car has been at the dealer for a tranny issue so long, I forgot what it looks like.

Of course they said the clutch was bad, how else do you think they stay in business.

You will probably require a throw out bearing which also is not covered under warranty.

For my car, the dealer says I need a clutch and throw out bearing. How does a clutch go bad at 27K?

Why can I shift into some gears and not in others?

If the clutch was bad wouldn't it affect all gears?

TREMEC = FAIL!

 

[jblues]

thanks for the help everyone: Not sure yet what my exact problem is. The initial failure seemed to be different than the Star Center Case everyone talks about. Other than it got stuck in third, and I typically use low RPM shifting, and it's a 2009 6spd.

Update from mechanic: they had a little time to look at the car again but it is not scheduled until next Mon or Tues. at the shop. The mechanic went to look it over yesterday evening and could not get it into gear & did not hear any of the noises I had mentioned. again he was not ready to move it into the shop until early next week. He was just doing a quick inspection. This does sound like one of the Star Center Cases I read about; but could also just be a clutch failure possibly.

thoughts?
Will keep you posted on what they say next week.
Thanks for your time and effort,

 

[jblues]

Dealership just called: Said clutch is fine, flywheel is fine. My Throwout bearing exploded that was the noise I had heard.

Am I correct in assuming this is related to Star Center Case K38556860?

forgot to ask if Throwout bearing was covered under Max Care warranty? (will ask when he calls back).

 

[Hal H]

Dealership just called: Said clutch is fine, flywheel is fine. My Throwout bearing exploded that was the noise I had heard.

Am I correct in assuming this is related to Star Center Case K38556860?

forgot to ask if Throwout bearing was covered under Max Care warranty? (will ask when he calls back).

I'd believe the throwout bearing ought to be covered under warranty.

Its not a wear item such as brakes, clutch lining (friction disc), tires would be considered. Rather instead a mechanical item that outright failed.

Throwout bearings can get noisy, but that typically about it. These Tremec 6-speeds use a combo slave cylinder/throwout bearing assembly and the part itself runs $120 - $150.
The major part of the job is the trans has to be pulled to replace it - if upon inspection the clutch or pressure plate look questionable, it may be prudent to replace those.
The flywheel would also be inspected to see if there's any resurfacing needed at that time.

 

[jblues]

I was told by my dealership the throwout bearing was not covered under warranty and is considered part of the clutch.... UPDATE: called chyrsler it is covered under Drivetrain warranty if I have kept up on my drivetrain maintenance. I have, but it wasn't recoreded. I have the receipt, and they are working out the details. He showed me the car all torn apart, and said my clutch disc wear looks great so far. That is good news. Will updated everyone soon. Thanks for the help!!

 

[DodgeCares]

Dealership just called: Said clutch is fine, flywheel is fine. My Throwout bearing exploded that was the noise I had heard.

Am I correct in assuming this is related to Star Center Case K38556860?

forgot to ask if Throwout bearing was covered under Max Care warranty? (will ask when he calls back).

The throwout bearing is not covered by max care warranty as it is part of the clutch assembly.

 

[ironman]

Well apparently the throw out bearing is only covered under warranty for 3 years 36,00 miles.
I looked up the warranty site under Max care and in trans. it does say ALL internal components.
So I called the warranty line in a rush and that is what I was told throw out bearing is covered under the
3 year 36,00 mile factory warranty. So I need to investigate more on this because it seems that it should be covered longer especially if an extended warranty is purchased.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

 

[jblues]

ironman: Chrysler rep told me on the phone. As long as I had serviced the drivetrain with the recommended services such as the 5yr powertrain service, that the throw out bearing was covered by drivetrain warranty.

 

[Yellow Jacket 2012]

It sounds like between Chrysler, Dodge and the dealers, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
There is one set of rules in a company but seems like everyone want to set their own.
If it was my car and at that mileage I'd get them to sell me a new clutch assembly for dealer cost and have them put it in while the car is apart. All the time and labor is already invested.

 

[jblues]

http://home.comcast.net/~jevanosdol/pictures/ch1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~jevanosdol/pictures/ch2.jpg

 

[ironman]

Jblues thanks for the update glad it was covered. and I agree with Yellow Jacket completely.

My wifes 2009 town and country bought new, had 20,000 miles on it, 3 months out of warranty when the two front main bearings in the Mill took a dump. Because I had all the maintenance work done on time at the dealer we received a new short block 3 year 100,000 mile warranty,but paid for the labor. We did not have an extended warranty so really they did not have to do anything. All my vehicles have an extended warranty now.
I like it that way.

 

[stamatz]

CHRYSLER + TREMEC = TOTAL FAIL

I can't begin to express the pain I am going through with my tranny issues and the Dealership East Hills Chrysler (LI-NY) where my car is located.

The dealer states that my clutch and throw out bearing is bad and didn't even acknowledge the star case when I mentioned it.

My issues directly reflects what is listed in the Star Case# S1021000004.

I am so disappointed in both the dealer and Chrysler Care. I am going into my fifth week with absolutely no results.

If the wrong grease was used upon assembly at the plant which caused the premature failure of these parts, how is that my fault?

If there wasn't an issues with these tranny's, grease or whatever, a Star Case would have never have been created.

The dealer and Chrysler Care are just sticking their heads in the sand hoping this whole issue would just go away and is a terrible way to react to a problem, look what happened to GM.

Chrysler and Tremec really need to address this issue and own up to the problems and properly address each concern respectfully along with the syncros issues.

Anything less is complete denial.

I have already lodged a complaint to the NHTSA and advise all Challenger, Camaro and GT500 owners to do the same.

I hope that one day they will receive enough complaints to launch a full investigation and bring forth the parties responsible for creating this disaster and force them to make good to their customers.

Totally disgusted! I will never purchase another car with a TREMEC in it and feel sorry for all those customers who will eventually go through what I am going through.

Chrysler + Tremec = Total Fail

 

[jblues]

stamatz: So sorry for all of your troubles. Hope they get it worked out with you, and get you back on the road soon. My case is not related to the Star Case, since my Clutch & plates are fine. The dealer did check into it for me though and did find the reference... On your question earlier about losing a few gears in the clutch (and you ask if a clutch goes bad wouldn't you lose everything; answer in my old car was no), I had a clutch go out in a used Dodge Stratus, and two of the 5 gears got sloppy, then just down right would not engage fully just before failure. I smoked the clutch in that car because I moved it into reverse and it did not fully engage due to clutch in that car going out.

Ironman & Yellow Jacket: Thank you for the advice, if money were not tight right now, I may have been able to do that. I had some hospital bills in 2012 due to a heart issue and we are still recovering our finances. We are staying ahead of things, but no room for extras right now. I know in the long run that may be the better option, but short term is a juggling game right now.

DodgeCares & all warranty customers: What question you ask, and how you ask it, seem to make a difference. I ask the dealership is the Throw-out bearing covered under Maximum Care Warranty; answer was no. When I ask this same question over the phone to Chrysler support they linked me to Maximum Care Warranty division, their answer was no; but they did offer (thankfully) that it was covered under Drivetrain Warranty. Please everyone remember if you have multiple warranties to specifically ask about each one, and if either warranty covers the parts in question. In my specific case the answer was yes to the drivetrain warranty covering the throw-out bearing, even though my Maximum Care warranty did not...

I am still waiting to find out what my final tab will be, so keep your fingers crossed. I have not gotten word that they have approved my warranty claim or not. But on my last call things seemed positive.

Hal H: Thank you for the information

bwbike: I added a few photos just to share. Not the greatest cell phone for images though.

Sepipr21: thanks for the info.

 

[ironman]

Jblues No that you for all that information. Good to know if the need ever arises.
Hope it all goes smooth the rest of the way.

Stamatz I too hope all your troubles end soon. Its a shame that dealership cant provide the Service customers deserve.

 

[stamatz]

Thanks Jblues and Ironman for your support!

I did get a call from my ChryslerCare rep on Friday as he promised. He said he called the dealer but the service manager wasn't in on Friday.

He left a message and asked if it was ok to provide another update by Wednesday of this week coming, I naturally said of course.

He also stated that he will use all his resources to resolve my case, which was somewhat comforting to hear.

I still would like to know how my clutch and throw out bearing failed before the original tires worn out?

I mean I haven't even done a burnout yet, I know I am lame but I really baby this car mechanically, the original tires are proof of that.

Am I to believe we are supposed to change our clutch every 27K?

I would also like to know how they came up with a 2900.00 estimate?

The throw out bearing is like $15.00 bucks and the clutch is about 5-600.00.

This whole thing smells like rotten tomatoes. Best advice I can give is to stay away from anything with a Tremec and stay far away from East Hills Dodge/Chrysler.

Will let you know what transpires but it will probably be another six months at this pace before anything gets resolved.

Chrysler + Tremec = Total FAIL!

 

[Hal H]

I still would like to know how my clutch and throw out bearing failed before the original tires worn out?

I mean I haven't even done a burnout yet, I know I am lame but I really baby this car mechanically, the original tires are proof of that.

Am I to believe we are supposed to change our clutch every 27K?

I would also like to know how they came up with a 2900.00 estimate?

The throw out bearing is like $15.00 bucks and the clutch is about 5-600.00.

This whole thing smells like rotten tomatoes. Best advice I can give is to stay away from anything with a Tremec and stay far away from East Hills Dodge/Chrysler.

Will let you know what transpires but it will probably be another six months at this pace before anything gets resolved.

Chrysler + Tremec = Total FAIL!

Stamatz, I can understand your frustration...I had less than great experiences with three (brand new) GM cars and warranty issues over the years...after that = no GM cars ever again for me.
...the dealers are the worst part of the 'exchange' and GM is a close 2nd in that nightmare.

The (Sachs) slave cyl and throwout bearing are integral parts, run ~ $148 (OEM supplier).

Sachs is also the OEM clutch ~ $600 for the clutch.

For comparison, my '92 GM stick V6 / FWD car I used to own had a Getrag trans / clutch that ran $1,100 for the parts and the whole job cost ~ $1,900 back in the early 2000s the last time I had it done...

Labor is the largest component since the drive shaft has to be pulled, part of the exhaust may be in the way (cat-back section) and then the trans must be removed.

I think your '10 may have had the sticking grease / input shaft issue that lead to a premature clutch failure (my '09 occaisionally will bind, but I know how to "bump" the clutch to get it free).

The wrong high-temp (Viper spec) grease was applied during assembly and the correct fix is to pull the trans, clean the grease and apply the correct lower-temp grease sparingly.

I have 37.8k on mine and this has been driven in stop/go traffic and long trips and everything works...at ~ 13k the 2nd gear nibble pretty much went away as the internals wore in/broke in to each other.

This transmission has been in use on GM (F-body/5th Gen Camaro, 'Vette, GTO, various Mustang applications) - the QC is a bit inconsistent from Tremec, but synchros or shift rail replacements have resolved problematic units if they turn up.

I developed this routine on cold-start up pretty much eliminates that 1st>2nd shift cold drive "nibble":
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f108/6-speed-owners-try-tip-76615/

Good luck with having Chrysler step up and take care of your issue.

 

[stamatz]

Just spoke to Chrysler Care today as I was left with the impression on Friday that someone will have the answers to my specific questions today.

Would you believe, I did not get complete answers to my questions?

Specifically I was looking for the parts and billable labor hours breakdown which total the 2900.00 the dealer quoted to repair my Clutch, Flywheel, Throw Out Bearing.

I would also like to know should the price of the parts be uniform across all dealers?

In other words, if I called Dealer XYZ and asked how much a flywheel costs for my vehicle and they said it was 500.00 for arguments sake, and then I called Dealer ABC and asked how much the cost for the flywheel would be, should it be the same 500.00 or will they say something different?

Also, if I asked Dealer XYZ what the billable hours were to replace a clutch and they looked in their book and said 5 billable hours, shouldn't Dealer ABC say the same thing when I call them to ask?

In other words, it should all be uniform across all dealers? True or False?

I get the feeling that East Hills Chrysler is padding the billable hours and or parts to total their 2900.00 price quote to repair my vehicle.

Also, no one to this day can logically explain to me why my Clutch, Flywheel and throw out bearing has failed on a car that has only 27K and still on the original tires and brakes.

Further more, if the clutch was worn as Chrysler Care stated, I would be complaining about slippage and NOT about unable to engage first gear or reverse?

What does a worn clutch have to do with not being able to engage first or reverse, wouldn't that be an issue with the transmission?

Am I to believe that the clutch will only last 27K miles and I am to replace a clutch every 27K miles? Is this what it is coming down to?

Can anyone logically explain all this to me?

To add insult to injury, Chrysler Care stated that the loaner car needs to be returned to the dealer by Friday and that I would be charged after that.

Needless to say I am totally frustrated with how this whole thing has been handled from both the dealer East Hill Chrysler and Chrysler Care from day 1.

They have both been totally unresponsive and negligent from point of view.

Chrysler acknowledging they have an issue by creating this Star Case proves an issues does in fact exist yet the dealers do not want to act upon screams negligence by both parties.

It appears that Chrysler nor the dealer wants handle this case and are basically just shooing me away.

Anyone legal recourse I can take at this time?

I appreciate any feedback anyone can give regarding any of the questions posted above.

Thanks fellow members!