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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
2011 challenger 5.7 manual. Original owner, 105k. Front pads were worn with passenger side to the metal on the outside pad, one caliper piston was seized so I put new rotors/pads/new pass caliper on.

The front brakes will not release, I jacked the car up after the initial work again, took the pads off, made sure everything was mechanically ok..... the pads are sliding correctly, the pistons compress enough to install the calipers without issue, no leaks, master didn’t go dry bleeding, bleed on pass caliper was no problem, new stainless slide hardware, calipers hung by wire and not left to dangle, pins straight, clean and greased and slide very easily.

When the car is off the ground and right after I put it all back together, the wheels spin perfectly, then after brakes are applied, everything works fine..... however the brakes will not release after the pedal is released.

I think this was the original problem now.

Any ideas? I’ve thought that maybe the rubber lines could be bad and creating a small flap on the inside not allowing the fluid to decompress, but both sides not working seems far fetched.

The car has been on track 4 times with multiple sessions and this is the 7th set of free autozone pads, and I’ve not had any problems with the system or doing the brakes myself before.

Any input, or common issues with this platform you’ve heard of please post (maybe a ABS or master issue) Thanks
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Outboard pad wearing quicker than inboard points to guide pins not allowing the pad to recede after braking event. Replace guide pins and boots, and use silglyde or similar grease on pins, the tracking heat will cook the wrong greases in hurry
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Outboard pad wearing quicker than inboard points to guide pins not allowing the pad to recede after braking event. Replace guide pins and boots, and use silglyde or similar grease on pins, the tracking heat will cook the wrong greases in hurry
Yep, I installed new pins and greased them during the pad swap. Mechanically very easy to slide by hand.

also, this car hasn’t seen a track in about 50k miles.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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When you said the brakes won’t release on the one side after applying the brakes, so you mean they stay engaged, actively preventing the wheel from turning (while it’s up in the air)?

If the clamping force does not relent, it has to be a hydronic issue since that’s the actuating mechanism. And if it’s only the one corner, the problem would seem to lie in one of the lines feeding fluid to that caliper.

Im not sure the best way of troubleshooting that. Maybe put a piece of hose over the bleeder screw and other end into a container of fresh fluid, press brake pedal and open bleeder screw like when bleeding, but leave bleeder screw open when brake pedal released. If the fluid is not observed reversing its direction of travel upon pedal release, that would verify the source of the problem. However the cause would still need to be diagnosed.

Line replacement between the MC and that corner seems like the next step if more granular testing is not possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
When you said the brakes won’t release on the one side after applying the brakes, so you mean they stay engaged, actively preventing the wheel from turning (while it’s up in the air)?

If the clamping force does not relent, it has to be a hydronic issue since that’s the actuating mechanism. And if it’s only the one corner, the problem would seem to lie in one of the lines feeding fluid to that caliper.

Im not sure the best way of troubleshooting that. Maybe put a piece of hose over the bleeder screw and other end into a container of fresh fluid, press brake pedal and open bleeder screw like when bleeding, but leave bleeder screw open when brake pedal released. If the fluid is not observed reversing its direction of travel upon pedal release, that would verify the source of the problem. However the cause would still need to be diagnosed.

Line replacement between the MC and that corner seems like the next step if more granular testing is not possible.
While it’s in the air both front brakes won’t release
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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While it’s in the air both front brakes won’t release
Interesting...my initial thought is master cylinder or proportioning valve...do those even exist anymore? Probably not...ABS unit?

IDK on this one, we’re getting dangerously close to a scenario where I would likely punt and take it to a shop for subsequent diag.

You don’t have an aftermarket line-lock installed you’re not telling us about, do you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Interesting...my initial thought is master cylinder or proportioning valve...do those even exist anymore? Probably not...ABS unit?

IDK on this one, we’re getting dangerously close to a scenario where I would likely punt and take it to a shop for subsequent diag.
I’m considering just installing the front rubber lines and if that doesn’t fix it, take it to the selling dealer which is about 3 miles from my house
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You don’t have an aftermarket line-lock installed you’re not telling us about, do you?
No, car is all stock except for srt springs/shocks and the all brake light/turn signal mod. Original owner and only problems I’ve had is the alternator recall and the blower motor went out 2 years ago. This has been a great car, I love it so much I bought a 392 a couple years ago too.
 

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Which caliper is not releasing? The one you replaced? Was the replacement caliper new or rebuilt. Could be a defective part

I would not worry about the wear pattern on the old pads how you described it. I have done a few brake jobs on modern challenger and avenger, they never wear evenly.
 

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Weird. perhaps there is some debris in the metal lines or the abs causing an obstuction. Again, both sides, weird

Did you mix up the guide pins. There is an upper and a lower. They are different
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Weird. perhaps there is some debris in the metal lines or the abs causing an obstuction. Again, both sides, weird
absolutely possible but there was no leak so it could be debris from the rubber line or a seal I suppose

Did you mix up the guide pins. There is an upper and a lower. They are different
🤔 They sure looked the same, and I didn’t remove them from one side and after install before pressing on brake to bleed I could very freely move the calipers back and forth. What is different about the pins?
 

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I cant say for sure which is the upper or lower, relying on my memory, one of them is smaller in diameter for a portion, I would call it a relief cut in the machining world
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I cant say for sure which is the upper or lower, relying on my memory, one of them is smaller in diameter for a portion, I would call it a relief cut in the machining world
For the non-Brembos I think the upper and lower are the same, going by how they are sold anyway. It’s the front versus rear where they become non-interchangeable IIRC (on the non-Brembos).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have the non brembos and I just looked on the core, the pins are identical. Thank you for the idea though
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Has the system ever been completely bled in an effort to replace all the old fluid with new/fresh fluid?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Has the system ever been completely bled in an effort to replace all the old fluid with new/fresh fluid?
When I used to take it to the track years ago I would suck the fluid out with a turkey baster and put new prestone dot4 in before track day. I haven’t done this for years, probably about 5 years. And it’s never been totally bled out at once
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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When I used to take it to the track years ago I would suck the fluid out with a turkey baster and put new prestone dot4 in before track day. I haven’t done this for years, probably about 5 years. And it’s never been totally bled out at once
Well that frozen caliper piston you encountered is likely due to corrosion from the moisture the brake fluid has absorbed over the years. Combine that with the fact that some of the fluid has seen track time (and ostensibly been subjected to extreme temps), and I would say a complete brake fluid flush and refill is a good idea.

However that doesn’t necessarily explain or even possibly fix the problem you originally asked about. I asked if a complete bleeding had been done because if one had been done recently, I wanted to know what behavior was observed on the front calipers if the old pump and hold method was used to bleed the front brakes.

But since that procedure hasn’t been done recently, my question is moot and not of much help in this diagnosis.

So we’re back to where we started I guess...

Does the dealership still have the car? Have they also observed the behavior you mentioned and that’s what they cannot explain?

What about asking them to do a complete flush of the fluid. At least that way you will know it has all new fluid if you want to continue troubleshooting on your own...

I don’t know, I’m out of ideas...one thing I’ve wondered about and which will be done that if you get them to a complete flush and refill is a cycling of the ABS module. If there is an issue with it contributing to this, their cycling of it during the flush might bring that issue to light and give them a new approach to diagnosing this deal. And if not, you’ll at least ha e all fresh fluid in the ABS module as well (as opposed to a home flush and fill that usually leaves the ABS module full of dirty fluid).
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well that frozen caliper piston you encountered is likely due to corrosion from the moisture the brake fluid has absorbed over the years. Combine that with the fact that some of the fluid has seen track time (and ostensibly been subjected to extreme temps), and I would say a complete brake fluid flush and refill is a good idea.

However that doesn’t necessarily explain or even possibly fix the problem you originally asked about. I asked if a complete bleeding had been done because if one had been done recently, I wanted to know what behavior was observed on the front calipers if the old pump and hold method was used to bleed the front brakes.

But since that procedure hasn’t been done recently, my question is moot and not of much help in this diagnosis.

So we’re back to where we started I guess...

Does the dealership still have the car? Have they also observed the behavior you mentioned and that’s what they cannot explain?

What about asking them to do a complete flush of the fluid. At least that way you will know it has all new fluid if you want to continue troubleshooting on your own...

I don’t know, I’m out of ideas...one thing I’ve wondered about and which will be done that if you get them to a complete flush and refill is a cycling of the ABS module. If there is an issue with it contributing to this, their cycling of it during the flush might bring that issue to light and give them a new approach to diagnosing this deal. And if not, you’ll at least ha e all fresh fluid in the ABS module as well (as opposed to a home flush and fill that usually leaves the ABS module full of dirty fluid).
When I put the one new caliper on the standard pump slow and hold method was used and it bled perfectly with no issues.

yes the dealer still has the car....and yes they are having the same problem I had and are going through step by step like I did (making sure no mechanical binds), they are supposed to be installing the rubber lines today since it’s not expensive and will take that out of the equation.

I appreciate your thoughts and replies to this issue.

I did ask them to do the lines and master and fluid and I would pay for them even if it didn’t fix the problem.
 
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