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Anyone with a 2011 SE went to the dyno for a stock base line yet?

The 2011 is amazing and its going to be exciting to see what it delivers to the rear wheels.
 

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Again it was a third gear pull I could not reach full redline it stopped at 6100 to 6200 due to hitting the speed limiter on the car. which was at 137-140mph. this is on my 2011 SE with the 2.65 rear end
Uncorrected

SAE Corrected
 

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Again it was a third gear pull I could not reach full redline it stopped at 6100 to 6200 due to hitting the speed limiter on the car. which was at 137-140mph. this is on my 2011 SE with the 2.65 rear end
That's a really nice, flat torque curve--and nearly all the way across the RPM range. Should have pretty smooth acceleration.

252 RWHP and climbing... looks like a very strong V6.
 

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Wow! Nice...
 

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The engine hits max HP at 6350, so pulling the curve to that looks to be about 260 WHP:bigthumb:. Very nice. Don't tell 370, he can't grasp, that dyno HP limited for something like a MPH limiter does not mean the engine can't put out more HP when driven down the road.

Well that is a full 15 WHP then I expected for a fully broke in engine. One would expect even better numbers with a little bit of run in...
 

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A good 70rwhp more than the previous year SE. Thats awesome!
 

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Chris, as with this new SE, the old SE could not be carried to RPM HP peak so one does not know what the RWHP is for either car. But it would look like 60 or more..
 

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What did the 09 and 10 SEs rev up to on the dyno?
 

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370 I think that is english your writing
When 370 is drinking the only "spelling" he's worried about is the drink in his hand !
I like to get drunk, grab some b(*)(*)bs, run around nude and get tazed by the cops !
With a 15% loss the PentaStar should show 260 WHP and it does, the 250 HP 3.5 should show 212 but only shows 175. The GM 312 HP V6 should show 265 but only shows 225. The PentaStar SE runs 14.8 with 260 WHP and hemiwoman's 3.5 runs 14.8 but her dyno (1st photo) is only showing 204 WHP. The 1/4 calculator shows a 4000 lb car has to have at least 240 WHP to run 14.8. Her 250 HP 3.5 +20 HP headers +20 Predator + 12 CAI = 302 HP. For some reason the computer is holding down the HP numbers on the dyno for the 3.5 and the GM V6.
 

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Enterprise, I don't think that is fair to compare hemiwomans SE vs the new SE. Who knows what we'll see in the 1/4 mile with the new penstar once more people get there hands on them. Also, I think hemiwomans 14.8 was done at Atco (when it was atleast -1000DA). Weather plays a big role, so until you get both cars on the same track on the same day, you can't really compare the two. That's just how I feel about it. But needless to say, both cars are awesome. I'll be seeing hemiwoman running her SE (and probably her husbands SRT8) at CF2
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The engine hits max HP at 6350, so pulling the curve to that looks to be about 260 WHP:bigthumb:. Very nice. Don't tell 370, he can't grasp, that dyno HP limited for something like a MPH limiter does not mean the engine can't put out more HP when driven down the road.

Well that is a full 15 WHP then I expected for a fully broke in engine. One would expect even better numbers with a little bit of run in...

What is redline on the 2011 SE? ITs higher than 6100 right? what 6300-6400? So this 251hp is definatly less than it makes at max output. If Im doing the math right, its more than +55 over the 2010?

Some of the 3.5L dyno results stop around 6000-6300 rpm at 170-175 (less than actual peek power at the flywheel minus drive trane parts) and this is showing 251 at 6100?

IF you took the lowest stock dyno of the 3.5L at 6100 and compared this at 6100 (both less than peek) you will see +76 hp @6100 rpm, not +55.

This is why I have been extcited about the new V6 as its my theory its even better than Dodge says.

Show me the math how Im wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
When 370 is drinking the only "spelling" he's worried about is the drink in his hand !


With a 15% loss the PentaStar should show 260 WHP and it does, the 250 HP 3.5 should show 212 but only shows 175. The GM 312 HP V6 should show 265 but only shows 225. The PentaStar SE runs 14.8 with 260 WHP and hemiwoman's 3.5 runs 14.8 but her dyno (1st photo) is only showing 204 WHP. The 1/4 calculator shows a 4000 lb car has to have at least 240 WHP to run 14.8. Her 250 HP 3.5 +20 HP headers +20 Predator + 12 CAI = 302 HP. For some reason the computer is holding down the HP numbers on the dyno for the 3.5 and the GM V6.
For the record that quote of mine is faked, I never said that. Still rather funny though.

One thing to remember the 5 speed MB transmission is more effeciant than the GM ones. Also if the comptuer is holding it back on the dyno wouldnt it hold it back on the street to? Why would it hold back on the dyno but not the street?

My point here is NOT to put down the 3.5L high tech HEMI v6 (more tech than the 5.7L or 6.1) but to say how amazing the new V6 truely is. By comparrison the new v6 produces significanlty more hp to the rear wheels in the real world. (no offence to 3.5L owners)

These numebrs are rather high.
Her 250 HP 3.5 +20 HP headers +20 Predator + 12 CAI = 302 HP
Headers are good for more like 8-10hp, Preditor 10, CAI 0-5 So 250 + 10 + 10 + 5 = 275 max.
Those who dyno 175(not redline) stock who add headers, CAI, cat back, and DiabloSport 93 tune get up to 200 rwhp(not redline) so thats about 25 to the rear wheels with all that, you arent going to see any where near +52 with those mods on a 3.5L V6.

Even the 5.7L VVT only shows 9-10 hp with headers, 10hp with DiabloSport tune, and -3 to +7hp depending on CAI RWHP gains.
 

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What is redline on the 2011 SE? ITs higher than 6100 right? what 6300-6400? So this 251hp is definatly less than it makes at max output. If Im doing the math right, its more than +55 over the 2010?

Some of the 3.5L dyno results stop around 6000-6300 rpm at 170-175 (less than actual peek power at the flywheel minus drive trane parts) and this is showing 251 at 6100?

IF you took the lowest stock dyno of the 3.5L at 6100 and compared this at 6100 (both less than peek) you will see +76 hp @6100 rpm, not +55.

This is why I have been extcited about the new V6 as its my theory its even better than Dodge says.

Show me the math how Im wrong.
The dyno results of the 3.5L are unreliable as far as absolute values since there may be electronics interferring. (It's possible that the entire curve needs to be shifted up--thus @ 6100RPM it might actually be 185 or higher).

Regardless, comparing non-peak output even at the same RPM is apples-oranges, unless you know that both curves are shaped exactly the same (which I highly doubt).

I think it's safe to simply go by the SAE ratings:
3.5L: 250HP peak
3.6L Pentastar: 305HP peak

Also, I highly doubt that Dodge has underrated it. It is tuned to 283HP in the Charger and other vehicles--so 305HP probably is it's max output with a factory tune. Plus, it's not really threatening the performance of the 5.7L V8 (unlike how the 5.7L threatens the 6.1L).

However, when they begin producing the twin-turbo version of the Pentastar V6, that may be a different story.

It's certainly an exciting V6 engine. A very good piece of engineering, and they're killing lots of birds with it, so from a manufacturing-cost-efficiency stand point it's a really good solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The dyno results of the 3.5L are unreliable as far as absolute values since there may be electronics interferring. (It's possible that the entire curve needs to be shifted up--thus @ 6100RPM it might actually be 185 or higher).

Regardless, comparing non-peak output even at the same RPM is apples-oranges, unless you know that both curves are shaped exactly the same (which I highly doubt).

I think it's safe to simply go by the SAE ratings:
3.5L: 250HP peak
3.6L Pentastar: 305HP peak

Also, I highly doubt that Dodge has underrated it. It is tuned to 283HP in the Charger and other vehicles--so 305HP probably is it's max output with a factory tune. Plus, it's not really threatening the performance of the 5.7L V8 (unlike how the 5.7L threatens the 6.1L).

However, when they begin producing the twin-turbo version of the Pentastar V6, that may be a different story.

It's certainly an exciting V6 engine. A very good piece of engineering, and they're killing lots of birds with it, so from a manufacturing-cost-efficiency stand point it's a really good solution.
I agree with most of what you said, but still if your car makes 100 hp at 1500rpm and mine makes 200 hp at 1500 rpm, and an import's makes 53 at 1500 rpm, still worth comparring. The import is very likley much lighter, so thats a big factor, but point being in the real world of typical driving how much do we drive at redline? How many SE owners really use WOT and let it shift at redline? So understanding many drive idle to 3000 rpm, some as low as 2500 rpm, less than peek ouputs are relivant.

I have seen 3.5L's that dyno within 200 rpm of peek hp showing 175, but yes something going on not allowing max power at the rear wheels. Not all dyno charts on the 3.5L is 500-1000 rpm below peek hp.

For the record. Dodges official 250 hp rating is at 6400 rpm. 250 ft/lb torque is at 3800 rpm. You can see the intake runers swap at about 5000 rpm on the dyno chart from Dodge. Key is it produces just under 200 ft/lb torque at 1200 rpm. Show me any 4 that can do that.

If you feal comfortbale driving with +.6G's and car a needs 1800 rpm to deliver than and the same car with a 4 cylender needs 4800 rpm to do +.6g's where is that 4 going to max out, and wont it be less effeciant, and in reality the first engine be better suited? In some cars I need WOT from every start to even match the SE at 3000 rpm, so I would consider it to be slow, and the SE usable.

Talking peek power to me isnt that big of a deal to me because most dont use peek power frequently, so a car with 200hp you typically use 100, a car with 400 you will use 200 etc, but a car with a lot of torque low end you dont need to wind it up to feal forward thrust, thats why I prefere V8-V12

If you look at the Camaro SS power cerve, the 400 hp engine has same or more hp than the 426 all the way very close to redline. Only at the last few hundred rpm does the 426hp rated engine excede the 400hp one, so do you really want 26 more hp in an area you rarely use it? The only reason the SS manual makes 426 hp is because the SRT-8 makes 425 hp. (talking 2010 cars)

Dodge under rates engines often. The 5.7L delivers 330 to the rear wheels and SRT-8 367 with same drive trane. WIth 15% loss that shows the 5.7L is at about 390 not 372. Read any documentation on the 426's 425 hp rating and you will see it was under rated to.

I am in no way putting down the SE, or SRT-8, in fact my official opinion is the SRT-8 is the best. Im simply saying it looks like some are under rated.

I have seed factory dyno charts from an import and if it fales to make less than 20 ft/lb torque more than its rated output it fales inspection. Thats a 2.5L, so I know for a fact at least one manufacure under rates their engine. I have seen the internal chasis dyno results.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
However, when they begin producing the twin-turbo version of the Pentastar V6, that may be a different story.

It's certainly an exciting V6 engine. A very good piece of engineering, and they're killing lots of birds with it, so from a manufacturing-cost-efficiency stand point it's a really good solution.
Now we are talking. IF they ever make a twin turbo pentastar V6 that will be amazing. Problem is, it will out perform, out handle, and have better mpg than the R/T, so I seriously doubt an SRT-6 pentastar will happen.

I think they should put the SRT-8 engine in the R/T stock, then produce a 426 / 7L blown version 9 psi for SRT-8, then the SE can have the Pentastar, AND make an SRT-6 with 12 psi stock. Thats a better line up.

Imagine the pentastar with 12 psi. what 500hp? Now we are talking srt-8 killers for sure. HANDELING TO.
 

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Also, I highly doubt that Dodge has underrated it. It is tuned to 283HP in the Charger and other vehicles--so 305HP probably is it's max output with a factory tune.
The PentaStar Charger is rated at 292 HP and runs 0-60 7.3 and 15.6 in the 1/4, the same times as the stock 09 SE 250 HP 3.5 4-speed Challenger. Allpar says "The Challenger SE's 13 horsepower increase over other Pentastar engines is due to "a more aggressively designed intake air system" which increased airflow from 214 to 220 g/s. The cam is identical." The other PentaStar motors get the stock air box and the Challenger gets a factory CAI.2011 Dodge Charger First Test - Motor Trend
 

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Now we are talking. IF they ever make a twin turbo pentastar V6 that will be amazing. Problem is, it will out perform, out handle, and have better mpg than the R/T, so I seriously doubt an SRT-6 pentastar will happen.

I think they should put the SRT-8 engine in the R/T stock, then produce a 426 / 7L blown version 9 psi for SRT-8, then the SE can have the Pentastar, AND make an SRT-6 with 12 psi stock. Thats a better line up.

Imagine the pentastar with 12 psi. what 500hp? Now we are talking srt-8 killers for sure. HANDELING TO.
They have actually already said that both single and twin-turbo variants of the Pentastar are in the plans using the 3.0L version.

While a twin-turbo Pentastar V6 may produce a lot more power, I think it will still fall short in the torque department compared even to the 5.7L. "There's no replacement for displacement". One nice thing about the Pentastar though is that it's torque curve is extremely flat: 90% of peak from as low as 1600 all the way thru to 6400 RPM.

The 3.6L in the Challenger outputs 270lb-ft, which is decent, but still, compared to even the 5.7L's 410lb-ft it's a still a long ways off of V8 output.

I don't think the 5.7L's torque curve is nearly as flat as the Pentastar's, but the 392's sure is. I don't think there will be any comparison between even a twin-turbo'd Pentastar and a 392--even with the added weight. (Ignoring handling of course.)

It would indeed be cool to have:
SE: twin-turbo Pentastar V6 w/400+ HP, ~ 300lb-ft torque, and still ~30MPG
R/T: 392 w/470+ HP (495), 470lb-ft, and ~25MPG
SRT8: Alum. 426 540HP+ HP, 560 lb-ft, and who-cares-what-mpg... :)
 

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The PentaStar Charger is rated at 292 HP and runs 0-60 7.3 and 15.6 in the 1/4, the same times as the stock 09 SE 3.5 4-speed. Allpar says "The Challenger SE's 13 horsepower increase over other Pentastar engines is due to "a more aggressively designed intake air system" which increased airflow from 214 to 220 g/s. The cam is identical." The other PentaStar motors get the stock air box and the Challenger gets a factory CAI.2011 Dodge Charger First Test - Motor Trend
Sorry--my number was indeed off. My point was simply that where they've made changes in the Challenger to increase it's output compared to other models, it's likely indicative that they aren't holding anything back and underrating it.

If the intake is the only difference, I'm sure that will make some Charger owners happy--and I've no doubt some 3rd party vendor will provide intake mods to bridge the gap. After all, why shouldn't Charger owners also get 305HP?
 
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