Dodge Challenger Forum banner

141 - 160 of 173 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #141
I will say, I was getting pretty frustrated trying to tune my system the "correct" way - with measurements. No matter what "target curve" I "flattened" the frequency reponse to, it just didn't sound good to me - even though all of the measurements after EQ'ing said that it should sound good. I tried many target curves - JBL Curve, Crutchfield Curve, Hanatsu Curve, Audiofrog Curve and probably some others - and I was able to successfully "flatten" out the frequency respone to make it match the target curves pretty closely. Keep in mind, each time I do this, I have to run things through REW, reprogram the DSR1, remeasure the results, etc - so it takes a lot of time and effort... But it just didn't sound good to me!!

I also tried many different crossover points between the door and dash speakers - 250hz, 350hz, 450hz, 700hz, 900hz - each time, remeasuring and re-EQ'ing each speaker - then reprograming the DSR1 and remeasureing again. No to mention having to recharge my car battery between every "tuning session". :)

Then I realized that if I simply increased the treble (last 5 bands on 31 band EQ for my dash speakers) and increased the mid-bass a little (the first few bands for my door speakers) - just up to +2.5dB, it sounded really good. Basically, at that point, I was using my Parametric EQ like a graphical EQ and just creating the good old "smiley face" with the EQ (increase bass and treble) - and like I said, the system sounded really good. However, the frequency reponse of the Infinty Reference speakers was still all over the place since I wasn't really fixing anything - just adding some bass and treble.

I was just about to give up on the whole "measurement" way of tuning a car audio system when I finially figured out what was wrong. It semes that just about all of the "target curves" that I wast tuning to seem to roll off (decrease) the treble area. Well - for whatever reason (hearing losses, my age, etc), I found that I have to slightly increase the upper treble area (instead of decrease) in order for the system to sound good to me! So I created a custom "target curve" to match my "needs" and sure enough, my system now sounds better than it ever has! Just figured this all out yesterday, so I'm still fine tuning, but at least I'm making significant progress now. So now I get the same "sound signature" as the "smiley face" type of EQ while also getting all of the benefits of smoothing out the frequency response of the speakers with the 31-band-per-channel parametric EQ (and believe me, even with the upgraded Infinity Reference speakers, they response from them is nowhere NEAR "smooth" - it's all over the place before EQ'ing (looks like a roller coaster before EQ'ing, instead of a nice smooth line).

The good news is that all of the repetition caused me to learn the Room EQ Wizard (aka "REW") pretty well. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
I will say, I was getting pretty frustrated trying to tune my system the "correct" way - with measurements. No matter what "target curve" I "flattened" the frequency reponse to, it just didn't sound good to me - even though all of the measurements after EQ'ing said that it should sound good. I tried many target curves - JBL Curve, Crutchfield Curve, Hanatsu Curve, Audiofrog Curve and probably some others - and I was able to successfully "flatten" out the frequency respone to make it match the target curves pretty closely. Keep in mind, each time I do this, I have to run things through REW, reprogram the DSR1, remeasure the results, etc - so it takes a lot of time and effort... But it just didn't sound good to me!!

I also tried many different crossover points between the door and dash speakers - 250hz, 350hz, 450hz, 700hz, 900hz - each time, remeasuring and re-EQ'ing each speaker - then reprograming the DSR1 and remeasureing again. No to mention having to recharge my car battery between every "tuning session". :)

Then I realized that if I simply increased the treble (last 5 bands on 31 band EQ for my dash speakers) and increased the mid-bass a little (the first few bands for my door speakers) - just up to +2.5dB, it sounded really good. Basically, at that point, I was using my Parametric EQ like a graphical EQ and just creating the good old "smiley face" with the EQ (increase bass and treble) - and like I said, the system sounded really good. However, the frequency reponse of the Infinty Reference speakers was still all over the place since I wasn't really fixing anything - just adding some bass and treble.

I was just about to give up on the whole "measurement" way of tuning a car audio system when I finially figured out what was wrong. It semes that just about all of the "target curves" that I wast tuning to seem to roll off (decrease) the treble area. Well - for whatever reason (hearing losses, my age, etc), I found that I have to slightly increase the upper treble area (instead of decrease) in order for the system to sound good to me! So I created a custom "target curve" to match my "needs" and sure enough, my system now sounds better than it ever has! Just figured this all out yesterday, so I'm still fine tuning, but at least I'm making significant progress now. So now I get the same "sound signature" as the "smiley face" type of EQ while also getting all of the benefits of smoothing out the frequency response of the speakers with the 31-band-per-channel parametric EQ (and believe me, even with the upgraded Infinity Reference speakers, they response from them is nowhere NEAR "smooth" - it's all over the place before EQ'ing (looks like a roller coaster before EQ'ing, instead of a nice smooth line).

The good news is that all of the repetition caused me to learn the Room EQ Wizard (aka "REW") pretty well. :)
It's great you have settled on a custom curve. I've been thinking about revisiting mine now that it has been a few years and I am sure my hearing has changed a bit. At least my wife says so. Not that I blast music a lot. My tastes have changed as well. I definitely want to upgrade the alpine 9-speaker system in the challenger, but I think I may test out/upgrade the charger as well with the DSR1. I think you've got me sold on it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19 Posts
Then I realized that if I simply increased the treble (last 5 bands on 31 band EQ for my dash speakers) and increased the mid-bass a little (the first few bands for my door speakers) - just up to +2.5dB, it sounded really good. Basically, at that point, I was using my Parametric EQ like a graphical EQ and just creating the good old "smiley face" with the EQ (increase bass and treble) - and like I said, the system sounded really good. However, the frequency reponse of the Infinty Reference speakers was still all over the place since I wasn't really fixing anything - just adding some bass and treble.
In my previous Challenger I ended up with an Audio Control D-4.800, which has a pretty impressive DSP combined with a nice AMP. I replaced the front speakers with a set of Alpine component speakers and the sound was not good. The dash tweeter had its own crossover that chopped out a lot of the mid-range the on-board amp sent to the dash speakers so I had nice treble that had been missing in the stock speakers but I had a big gap where the mids were supposed to be.

The D-4.800 DSP sums all the stock amp outputs to give you all of the sound, and you can play with it to get it the way you want. It took me 6-8 tuning sessions to get the sound to my liking, mainly because of the big boost I had to give to the mids to bring them up to where they should be. Since they were coming out of the door speakers and not out of the dash they needed the boost. It took me a while to convince myself of that but the sound finally fell into place.

Trust your own ears. I too like the increased clarity and brightness of slightly increased treble, but unlike you I decrease the mid-bass area around 125-150 Hz because it gives me a headache when it's overblown. It's your car so tune the audio like you would the exhaust so it sounds good to YOU.

Now I'm hoping just swapping out the stock speakers on my new Challenger will suffice but I make no promises. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #144
I'm still messing with target curves and fine-tuning, but I think that I've finally come up with a target curve that makes me happy - and I've been tuning towards that target curve (having a blast messing with this stuff - but it does consume HUGE amounts of time!). :)

Just take a look at the "Before EQ" and "After EQ" frequency response from the Infinity Reference dash speakers (this is the response I hear at my ears while sitting in the drivers seat - after the interior interacts with the sound):

BEFORE



AFTER


Slight difference, eh? :) It took about 25 bands of EQ for each of these speakers to get the frequency response flattened out like that. That is the beauty of what a Parametric EQ can do for you (as opposed to a graphical EQ). With my hearing, my car and my speakers, I like the treble area to actually increase a little at the upper treble area - whereas a lot of other people like it to decrease - which is why I had to come up with my own "target curve". All depends on your hearing and preference, I guess. I also like a "bass heavy" sound, which again - I can customize to my liking with the DSR1 (my 6x9 speakers and under-seat sub aren't shown here - just the 3.5" dash speakers).

I've really made a lot of progress with the DSR1. Normally, you can't specify exact frequencies for the 31-band PEQ bands and each band can only be moved around between the bands on either side - plus, it only allows you to make gain adjustments in .5 increments. However, I found that these limitations are application limitations - not hardware limitations (makes it easier to use on a mobile device). However - if you "export" a DSR1 profile from the PerfectTune app, you can then put whatever values you want in the export file and then re-import it - which allows me to use the PEQ on the DSR1 like a PEQ on a more expensive DSP like a Helix or MiniDSP, for example - you get much better granularity this way. This allows me use all 31 bands just for a single speaker, for example (instead of the 31 bands being spread out over the whole 20hz - 20khz spectrum).

Hard to explain unless you are familiar with the DSR1 and PerfectTune app, but suffice it to say that I've extracted way more power from the DSR1 than it normally allows. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #145
Also - I will say that properly tuning your system makes such a dramatic difference. Vocals now seem to come from the windshield, above where the center-speaker grille is located - even though I don't have a center speaker (although, you'd swear that I did). :) Time alignment is awesome - and when combined with getting the left/right levels set properly, it just makes for such good "imaging".

And the bass level is a 500% improvement with the under-the-seat sub. I now actually have real bass and it really "completes" the overall sound - and relieves the 6x9's from trying to create the deeper bass (so less vibrations in the doors).

I was really surprised by how well the JBL BassPro SL does in terms of output. I think I only have it at about half gain level and STILL have to turn the sub level down a few dB in the DSR1! So it easily keeps up with the 75W RMS per channel JL amp for the regular speakers. Fantasitc additon to the system - and you'd never it know it was there - it's completely hidden and takes up no trunk space. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19 Posts
Just to follow up on this, I had the speakers installed today. I just wanted more treble and tighter bass, and these Infinity speakers delivered. I'll be tweaking the pitiful sound controls for a couple of days but I'm liking the sound so far. The base stereo didn't sound bad, it was just missing mainly treble.

And in 3 months I'll add an amp and a sound processor and a subwoofer and another amp... :)

Thanks to jtrosky for being the guinea pig on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
A question on the DSR1 Connections. Did you have to pull the OEM radio out at all and did you have to run that wire connection to the Can Junction box by the glove compartment ? I noticed on the 2018 Challenger install sheet on the idatalink website that was a required step. I have a 2018 Challenger with the 6 speaker amp setup. :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #148
A question on the DSR1 Connections. Did you have to pull the OEM radio out at all and did you have to run that wire connection to the Can Junction box by the glove compartment ? I noticed on the 2018 Challenger install sheet on the idatalink website that was a required step. I have a 2018 Challenger with the 6 speaker amp setup. :cool:
No - you don't have to pull the OEM radio or run anything to the glove box. If you are putting the DSR-1 in the trunk, you only need to disconenct the factory amp and connect that wire to the DSR1 harness and then run the DSR1 harness (with a 4m extension) back to the trunk where the DSR1 is.

For the speaker wires, If you want to run all new speaker wires (instead of using the factory speaker wires), you'd also need to run those from the amp in the trunk to each of the speakers. If you want to use the factory speaker wires, you'd just need to run new speaker wires from the new amp to the stock amp connection (then it would use the factory speaker wires from that point out to the speakers). Obviously, it's easier juse to run new speaker wires for the rear-deck speakers, but using the stock speaker wiring for the dash and door speakers does save a lot of effort...

Hope that answers your question. I don't recall seeing the part about having to remove the old radio and run wires to the glove box? Do you have a link to the doc you are referring to?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #150
Interesting. That version of the document is an updated version compared to what I have. When I installed mine, the document didn't list anything for 2018+ - it only went up to 2017.

I'm really curious why they would have you wire it up like that though. Obviously, everything works when connected as per the 2017 instructions (I have a 2018 GT).

I'm going to reach out to iDataLink and get their input - I'll let you know what I find out.

EDIT: I wonder if they are going to support non-amplified systems in the near future and that method just allows them to use the same install method for both non-amplified and amplified stock systems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #151
Ah - that link is to the wrong document. If you look closely at the diagrams, it shows an "Audison Amplifier" in the diagrams - that is a document when using one of the few specific amplifiers that they support directly (instead of using any amplifier you want) - they require a special harness and everything. The "normal" DSR1 setup is different.

Here is a link to the "generic amplifier" version of the document that i used - like I said, it only goes up to 2017, but it defintiely works with a 2018 also. They need to update their documentation. :)

http://images.idatalink.com/corporate/Content/Manuals/ADS-DSR1-CHR02B-AR-IG-EN_20190226.pdf

They (iDataLink) don't make it easy on you though - they don't really say which document is which. Documentation is definitely NOT a strong point of the DSR1. :) The documentation that they do have is outdated and doesn't match the software prompts, etc. Definitely a frustration point when trying to setup the DSR1. Another "for example" - in the DSR1 harness box, you get a bunch of little pieces that you really have no idea what they are for - one of these "parts" are the in-line resistors that need to be connected to the harness to "fool" the radio into thinking there are spaakers connected - if you don't connect them, you won't get any output. But those pieces aren't even mentioned in the manual at all. Stuff like that...
 

·
Registered
2015 Scat Pack
Joined
·
2,232 Posts
Ah - that link is to the wrong document. If you look closely at the diagrams, it shows an "Audison Amplifier" in the diagrams - that is a document when using one of the few specific amplifiers that they support directly (instead of using any amplifier you want) - they require a special harness and everything. The "normal" DSR1 setup is different.

Here is a link to the "generic amplifier" version of the document that i used - like I said, it only goes up to 2017, but it defintiely works with a 2018 also. They need to update their documentation. :)

http://images.idatalink.com/corporate/Content/Manuals/ADS-DSR1-CHR02B-AR-IG-EN_20190226.pdf

They (iDataLink) don't make it easy on you though - they don't really say which document is which. Documentation is definitely NOT a strong point of the DSR1. :) The documentation that they do have is outdated and doesn't match the software prompts, etc. Definitely a frustration point when trying to setup the DSR1. Another "for example" - in the DSR1 harness box, you get a bunch of little pieces that you really have no idea what they are for - one of these "parts" are the in-line resistors that need to be connected to the harness to "fool" the radio into thinking there are spaakers connected - if you don't connect them, you won't get any output. But those pieces aren't even mentioned in the manual at all. Stuff like that...
Bringing this conversation out of the weeds for a momemt; what low profile, self-contained subwoofer would you recommend? I'm looking to simply replace my existing six speakers with the ones you listed on post #1, but would like to increase the bass. However, I primarily race this car, so need something I can easily install/remove.

I was looking at the Bazookas, but I don't know if they can simply be wired with the cables going to the existing factory sub. What would you suggest?

I have the base Alpine 6 speaker system in my 1320.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #153
Bringing this conversation out of the weeds for a momemt; what low profile, self-contained subwoofer would you recommend? I'm looking to simply replace my existing six speakers with the ones you listed on post #1, but would like to increase the bass. However, I primarily race this car, so need something I can easily install/remove.

I was looking at the Bazookas, but I don't know if they can simply be wired with the cables going to the existing factory sub. What would you suggest?

I have the base Alpine 6 speaker system in my 1320.
Well, I must say, my opinions have changed quite a bit from when I started this thread. I've since replaced my Infinity Reference speakers with some Kenwood Excelon component speakers that are designed for these cars. They are like $220 for the door and dash speaker set. THey also sell a coaxial version for the rear deck. I just think that they sound a little better than the Infinity Reference speakers - especially the dash speakers (not as harsh at higher volumes). Although, they are less efficient, so probably won't be as loud as the Infinity speakers if you are not going to add an amp.

If you are still interested in the Infinity speakers, let me know - I have a lightly used set that I'd be willing to sell you for a good discount.

I bought the JBL BassPro SL underseat sub for my 2018. It does a really good job with bass considering the price. It won't go as low as a "real" subwoofer/amp, but it definitely helps the bottom end and fits perfectly under the passenger seat. That is really the only one I have any experience with in the Challenger. I have a less expensive Pioneer in my Impala, but I definitely think the JBL does a better job.

That being said, an under-the-seat sub isn't something that you would want to constantly remove and re-install. It's more of a permanent fixture once installed. Although, it only weighs about 10 pounds or so (if that), so not sure it's really a big deal.

The model number for the Kenwood Excelon speakers are as follow (if you are interested):

Door/Dash component set: KFC-XP6903C
Rear deck 6.5" coaxial: KFC-X174

I haven't replaced the Infinity rear-deck speakers with the KFC-X174's yet,but plan to do so soon - so if you are interested in the Infinity Reference speakers, we can work something out for the complete set of 6 speakers - door, dash and rear-deck.

Also, unrelated, but I'm also replacing my DSR-1 with the AmpPro 4 and a Helix DSP.3 DSP. The DSR works OK, especially for the price, but I'm looking to go a little "higher end" with the Helix DSP (it alone costs almost 3x as much as the DSR-1!). I'm also going to go digital from the AP4 to the Helix, which will be nice (better sound quality and reduces noise). I'm deep in the car audio rabbit hole now. Eventually, I'll probably end up replacing the Kenwood speakers with some high-end speakers (AudioFrog seem to be the new "go to" high quality speakers - but they are way more expensive that what I'm used to).
 

·
Registered
2015 Scat Pack
Joined
·
2,232 Posts
Well, I must say, my opinions have changed quite a bit from when I started this thread. I've since replaced my Infinity Reference speakers with some Kenwood Excelon component speakers that are designed for these cars. They are like $220 for the door and dash speaker set. THey also sell a coaxial version for the rear deck. I just think that they sound a little better than the Infinity Reference speakers - especially the dash speakers (not as harsh at higher volumes). Although, they are less efficient, so probably won't be as loud as the Infinity speakers if you are not going to add an amp.

If you are still interested in the Infinity speakers, let me know - I have a lightly used set that I'd be willing to sell you for a good discount.

I bought the JBL BassPro SL underseat sub for my 2018. It does a really good job with bass considering the price. It won't go as low as a "real" subwoofer/amp, but it definitely helps the bottom end and fits perfectly under the passenger seat. That is really the only one I have any experience with in the Challenger. I have a less expensive Pioneer in my Impala, but I definitely think the JBL does a better job.

That being said, an under-the-seat sub isn't something that you would want to constantly remove and re-install. It's more of a permanent fixture once installed. Although, it only weighs about 10 pounds or so (if that), so not sure it's really a big deal.

The model number for the Kenwood Excelon speakers are as follow (if you are interested):

Door/Dash component set: KFC-XP6903C
Rear deck 6.5" coaxial: KFC-X174

I haven't replaced the Infinity rear-deck speakers with the KFC-X174's yet,but plan to do so soon - so if you are interested in the Infinity Reference speakers, we can work something out for the complete set of 6 speakers - door, dash and rear-deck.

Also, unrelated, but I'm also replacing my DSR-1 with the AmpPro 4 and a Helix DSP.3 DSP. The DSR works OK, especially for the price, but I'm looking to go a little "higher end" with the Helix DSP (it alone costs almost 3x as much as the DSR-1!). I'm also going to go digital from the AP4 to the Helix, which will be nice (better sound quality and reduces noise). I'm deep in the car audio rabbit hole now. Eventually, I'll probably end up replacing the Kenwood speakers with some high-end speakers (AudioFrog seem to be the new "go to" high quality speakers - but they are way more expensive that what I'm used to).
Thanks....though "curse you" for now making me choose between the Infinity and the Kenwood!

Since the total price between the Infinity and Kenwood are almost equal, and I'm not adding an amp, which would give the "cleanest" sound? I'm NOT going to be doing soundwave analysis like you discussed earlier in the thread; I just want a bit crisper, cleaner sound.

I'm always getting yelled at by my family for never giving them birthday/holiday gift ideas, but always buying car stuff, so this year I thought I'd give them all the links and between the collective, they can buy everything I need to upgrade, so, thanks for the offer on the speakers, but I'll pass for now.

I like the JBL bass you specified; it would work because I'd mount it under the passenger seat (I have no back seat) and remove it when I remove the seat for racing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #155
Thanks....though "curse you" for now making me choose between the Infinity and the Kenwood!

Since the total price between the Infinity and Kenwood are almost equal, and I'm not adding an amp, which would give the "cleanest" sound? I'm NOT going to be doing soundwave analysis like you discussed earlier in the thread; I just want a bit crisper, cleaner sound.
Hmm, that's a tough one for me to answer. I'm just not that familiar with the non-amplified radio/speaker setup.

Assuming that it sends a full range signal and the door/dash speakers are wired in parallel - and that there is some sort of passive crossover that sends bass to the door speakers and mids/highs to the dash speaker, I'd probably stick with the Kenwoods. I just think that they are more of a "matched set" and that the dash speaker just sounds better. Also, with that type of setup, there really is no need for tweeters in the door speakers like you'd have with the Infinity speakers (they wouldn't be used anyway). Personally, I would probably go with the Kenwoods if sound quality is more important than overall output level. Like I said, the Infinity speakers will probably play a little louder though (they are 3 ohms vs 4 ohms for the Kenwoods and the Infinity speakers also have a higher sensitivity spec). If you are not constantly turning your radio all of the way up, then it probably won't be an issue though.

The Kenwood 6x9 also fits better in the doors and comes with lots of foam that helps eliminate rattles and even helps the sound stay out of the doors since it guides it into the door speaker opening better (they have foam that acts like a "fast ring" to help seal the speaker to the door a little better). Look up the Five Star Car Stereo video on these speakers to see what I mean.

Like I said, the Kenwoods just have a smoother sound from the dash speakers, IMO. Also, I've found that the Infinity Reference 6.5" speakers aren't the greatest - at least not the versions that Crutchfield says "fit" (they are shallow speakers and just not as good as regular sides speakers) - and you really don't need shallow speakers in the Challenger. If you do go with the Infinity's, I would get the EX version of the 6.5" speaker (instead of the IX version) for the rears - Crutchfield says they don't fit, but others have reported that they fit fine - and sound a lot better.

Hope that helps! Good luck with your decision! Honestly, either way will be a big upgrade over the stock speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
What's
Ah - that link is to the wrong document. If you look closely at the diagrams, it shows an "Audison Amplifier" in the diagrams - that is a document when using one of the few specific amplifiers that they support directly (instead of using any amplifier you want) - they require a special harness and everything. The "normal" DSR1 setup is different.

Here is a link to the "generic amplifier" version of the document that i used - like I said, it only goes up to 2017, but it defintiely works with a 2018 also. They need to update their documentation. :)

http://images.idatalink.com/corporate/Content/Manuals/ADS-DSR1-CHR02B-AR-IG-EN_20190226.pdf

They (iDataLink) don't make it easy on you though - they don't really say which document is which. Documentation is definitely NOT a strong point of the DSR1. :) The documentation that they do have is outdated and doesn't match the software prompts, etc. Definitely a frustration point when trying to setup the DSR1. Another "for example" - in the DSR1 harness box, you get a bunch of little pieces that you really have no idea what they are for - one of these "parts" are the in-line resistors that need to be connected to the harness to "fool" the radio into thinking there are spaakers connected - if you don't connect them, you won't get any output. But those pieces aren't even mentioned in the manual at all. Stuff like that...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I see you talking about the New Kenwood Excelon speakers for the Dash/Doors. I'm looking for a second opinion. Right now have the Infinity Reference CFX Speakers 3.5 in the dash and 6x9 doors. Dash speakers are real tinny, Door speakers playing only Bass are fine. I'm want to just replace the dash speakers with the Kenwood KFCX3C 3.5 Excelon speakers. Don't want to hassle with the doors again. What kind of sound issues can I except with the 3.5 dash speakers having only a frequency response between 800hz to 23hz. I have to Alpine 6 Speaker setup with the 276 watt factory amp crossing over at 400hz at dash and doors. Am I losing anything between 400hz -800hz and will the new speakers be less bright ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #158
The only potential concern I would have is that I'm not sure how well the Kenwood dash and Infinity door speakers would match up. The infinity speakers are lower ohms and have a higher sensitivity, so the dash speakers may not match up volume-wise with Infinity door speakers. Personally, I like to keep these types of speakers (inexpensive, mass-produced speakers) in "sets" from the same manufacturer/same product line.

I have no idea why Kenwood lists the 800hz lower frequency for the frequency response. I'm running the component set in an active setup (not using the supplied passive crossovers - using active crossovers on a DSP instead) and I'm crossing them over at 500hz and the perform fine with that crossover frequency (actually better than the default 850hz crossover due to a huge dip in the 6x9 door speakers at about 700hz (probably car-induced). I could even cross them over at 400hz just fine too. I've never seen a 3.5" coaxial speakers that couldn't go below 800hz. However, I'm running them with a much steeper crossover slope (24dB slope) - I'm assuming the included passive crossover with the component set is using a 6dB or maybe 12dB slope, which may be why they are crossing them so high - really not sure.

But the Kenwood 3.5" dash speakers definitely play fine below 800hz - no frequency response issues below 800hz (I've measure them with a calibration mic many times). :)

Something else to consider... The dash speakers are wired in reverse polarity from the factory - you may get a fuller sound from them if you wire them in normal polarity. I never tried it with the stock amp (but I do run the Kenwoods in "normal" polarity with my DSP and aftermarket amp - it makes a noticeable difference). Reverse polarity reduces bass response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,227 Posts
Discussion Starter #159
So I upgraded my rear deck speakers from the Infinty 6.5" speakers (REF-6532EX) to the Kenwood Excelon KFC-X174 6.5" speakers. WOW - what a difference!! The Kenwoods are MUCH "beefier" speakers - not even close - and they seem to provide a MUCH "beefier" sound as well! MUCH better bass from them. I haven't spent a lot of time with them yet, but there really is no comparison. I'm only using them for a subset of frequencies (so as not to take away from the front stage), but they are definitely better speakers than the Infinitys that I had installed previously.

I really can't recommend these Kenwood Excelon speakers enough (the KFC-X6903C door/dash component set and now the KFC-X174 rear-deck set). I feel bad for recommending the Infinity speakers now!!

Here are a few pictures just comparing the size of the stock, Infinity and Kenwood speakers. I didn't check the pictures after taking them, so the lighting is very bad in a few, but you still get the gist...

Front comparison of the Infinity and Kenwood 6.5":


Back comparison:


Side comparison:


Side comparison of Stock, Kenwood and Infinity:


Close up of back of the Kenwood:


Close up of the back of the Infinity:


Magnet size isn't everything, but damn - the magnet on the Kenwood is so much bigger and heavier than the Infinity. The Kenwood speaker in general makes the Infinity look like a toy. You can tell just from looking at them which one is going to provide more sound! :)

I didn't buy from Crutchfield due to cost, simply because I didn't need the adapters they provide (and build into the cost of the speakers). I actually purchased from CarID of all places - they had them for $63.45 (Crutchfield charges $99). However, when you add shipping and tax, it came out to $79.13 from CarID. You can find them even cheaper on Amazon, but people are reporting that they are getting fakes from Amazon (label on speaker is completely different, "Excelon" is not on box or speaker anywhere, etc). Not worth the risk to buy from Amazon.

Again, I completely take back my recommendation on what speakers to buy. I would recommend the Kenwood Excelon speakers over the Infinity speakers any day - especially if you are using an external amplifier.

Replacing the rear-deck speakers is a pain in the rear. Don't do like me and have to replace them twice - just go for the Kenwoods the first time! :)

EDIT: Oh - one more thing - the Kenwoods come with properly-sized screws too!! With the Infinity speakers, I had to use a dremel to cut (8) screws down to the proper size, which was a major pain (for the rear deck speakers). Also, the Kenwood door speakers just fit better and came with lots of cool foam that acts as fast-rings for them. I did use actual fast rings for the Kenwood rear-deck speakers - they did not come with their own foam like the door/dash set did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
Well, I must say, my opinions have changed quite a bit from when I started this thread. I've since replaced my Infinity Reference speakers with some Kenwood Excelon component speakers that are designed for these cars. They are like $220 for the door and dash speaker set. THey also sell a coaxial version for the rear deck. I just think that they sound a little better than the Infinity Reference speakers - especially the dash speakers (not as harsh at higher volumes). Although, they are less efficient, so probably won't be as loud as the Infinity speakers if you are not going to add an amp.

If you are still interested in the Infinity speakers, let me know - I have a lightly used set that I'd be willing to sell you for a good discount.

I bought the JBL BassPro SL underseat sub for my 2018. It does a really good job with bass considering the price. It won't go as low as a "real" subwoofer/amp, but it definitely helps the bottom end and fits perfectly under the passenger seat. That is really the only one I have any experience with in the Challenger. I have a less expensive Pioneer in my Impala, but I definitely think the JBL does a better job.

That being said, an under-the-seat sub isn't something that you would want to constantly remove and re-install. It's more of a permanent fixture once installed. Although, it only weighs about 10 pounds or so (if that), so not sure it's really a big deal.

The model number for the Kenwood Excelon speakers are as follow (if you are interested):

Door/Dash component set: KFC-XP6903C
Rear deck 6.5" coaxial: KFC-X174

I haven't replaced the Infinity rear-deck speakers with the KFC-X174's yet,but plan to do so soon - so if you are interested in the Infinity Reference speakers, we can work something out for the complete set of 6 speakers - door, dash and rear-deck.

Also, unrelated, but I'm also replacing my DSR-1 with the AmpPro 4 and a Helix DSP.3 DSP. The DSR works OK, especially for the price, but I'm looking to go a little "higher end" with the Helix DSP (it alone costs almost 3x as much as the DSR-1!). I'm also going to go digital from the AP4 to the Helix, which will be nice (better sound quality and reduces noise). I'm deep in the car audio rabbit hole now. Eventually, I'll probably end up replacing the Kenwood speakers with some high-end speakers (AudioFrog seem to be the new "go to" high quality speakers - but they are way more expensive that what I'm used to).
Yeah helix/brax products are the best DSP right now. I have the PSIX dsp mk2 in my build, and love it. You definitely want to upgrade the speakers to take advantage of the processing power. I use hybrid Audio Unity U69 6x9 woofers in the doors. Which they are 2 ohm drivers, I have 230w going to each driver. Let me know when your ready to pickup the dsp.3
 
141 - 160 of 173 Posts
Top