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Discussion Starter #1
Opinions please,

In 2010 wouldn't the Challenger 3.5 V6 been considered a high output engine for being a V6? 250hp for a 215ci engine to me would be. Am I wrong? Thoughts...
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Opinions please,

In 2010 wouldn't the Challenger 3.5 V6 been considered a high output engine for being a V6? 250hp for a 215ci engine to me would be. Am I wrong? Thoughts...
The HO (High Output) part of the 3.5L HO designation for those engine refers to this particular incarnation of Dodge's 3.5L engine design I believe.

It was the 3rd or 4th generation of that 3.5L engine, which originally came to life almost 20 years earlier. Over the years, different aspects were redesigned and implemented for more power output, culminating in the final version which, in the Challenger (and probably the Chargers as well), was capable of 250HP and 250 ft/lb of TQ.

Previous versions, and even version available at the same time (but not in the same configuration), were not rated with that much HP/TQ, and so this version was differentiated with the HO moniker.

At least that's how I understand it, I could be mistaken on some of that...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The reason I asked is because it would be nice to find or have made an emblem 3.5L HO to put on the hood of an SE, in the same place the R/T or SRT have HEMI. Just to kindda 'bling' up the car a bit. Or even put it on the grill where RT goes...in red. Trying to think of some things to add to the car to make it stand out some.

Like you explained, my opinion is that the latest 3.5 is a HO. Now I know. Cool.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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The reason I asked is because it would be nice to find or have made an emblem 3.5L HO to put on the hood of an SE, in the same place the R/T or SRT have HEMI. Just to kindda 'bling' up the car a bit. Or even put it on the grill where RT goes...in red. Trying to think of some things to add to the car to make it stand out some.

Like you explained, my opinion is that the latest 3.5 is a HO. Now I know. Cool.
Interesting...I'm trying to think if I've seen any other vehicles over the years that have had an "HO" emblem that could be re-purpose, but nothing's coming to mind...if you could find something that Honda makes with an all capital emblem on it, you could always take the "HONDA" and chop off the "NDA" to leave just the "HO", but finding an emblem like that in the right size and color is probably a long shot.

Hmmmm....
 

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The engine is code EGG for the 3.5. Same as Chargers and 300s which get the HO badge. Its the same motor just the Challenger didnt get a badge. 250hp is nice but I would rather see 100hp/L. I think the motor could do that if the cams were more aggressive, forced induction and fuel economy was not an issue, but sadly this motor never got much love from the aftermarket.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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The engine is code EGG for the 3.5. Same as Chargers and 300s which get the HO badge. Its the same motor just the Challenger didnt get a badge.
I didn't realize there was already an HO badge that the other LXs got...cool, well then half your work is already done for you. You just have to find one you like and paint it if necessary and affix where desired!

250hp is nice but I would rather see 100hp/L. I think the motor could do that if the cams were more aggressive, forced induction and fuel economy was not an issue, but sadly this motor never got much love from the aftermarket.
The 3.5L was taken as far as it was going to go naturally aspirated. The design was aging, borderline outdated, and they had already used every trick in the book on it to extend its life as long as they did. But that's not a bad thing; any engine that can live for 2 decades or more in production of numerous different car models like the 3.5L did deserves some respect.
It was just in need of being replaced by the time they got around to doing it, that's for sure.

There isn't much available for it from the aftermarket, that's true. But I would submit that is because there is not much that the aftermarket could do for it. You can put a supercharger on it to really liven things up, but beyond that, there's just not much you can change/upgrade/replace with an aftermarket equivalent that would yield any improvements large enough to make the cost of the improvement worth it.

As far as just trying to squeeze more HP out of the 3.5L, the options (besides a s/c) are limited:
1) replace the factory exhaust manifolds with some headers to help it breath on the backside.
2) replace the factory air intake tube and air box with one that will breath more freely and be less prone to heat soak.
3) customize the engine's tune to advance the spark far enough to run premium octane fuel and account for the better breathing intake and exhaust.
(these next two apply to the car the 3.5L is already in and not to the engine itself, but still, these two are a MUST if you're trying to make the 3.5L perform better in some random LX)
4) replace the older 4L60 4 speed automatic trans with the newer NAG1 5 speed automatic trans
5) replace any 2.87 or similarly high geared rear-end with one geared lower, e.g. one geared in the 3.60s-3.70s range is much better for street/strip action.

If you're able to apply most or all of those to an LX with a 3.5L in it, you'll have a danged decent car to play around with while still being able to drive in all conditions and locations. Anything more than that, and you'll have to supercharge it, which they have been known to take surprisingly well from what I understand (something about the bottom end being forged or something I believe).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the comments. Some good ideas. I'll be thinking and looking, for sure. If I ever come up with something good looking and that fits, I'll post back.

PS, A Guy, I'll check them out. It's late for me. Bed time.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Improving the 3.5L Challenger's Performance and Overall Driving Experience

That list of mods I gave earlier is really only for a scenario where time and money is not an impediment. But since this is the really real world, and both time and money are going to be a factor in modding the car, I would offer up an alternate list of mods to do to a Challenger with the 3.5L in it. This one won't necessarily be geared toward maximizing performance, though that will happen to a degree. This list is more about maximizing the driving experience of the car, while increasing the performance of the 3.5L as much as possible with the limited options available for such.

1. If the stock, whisper-quiet exhaust is still in place, replace it (the suitcase muffler and resonator) with something like a single in/dual out performance muffler and straight pipe all the way back out. That won't necessarily increase the performance by a noticeable amount, but it certainly won't hurt it, and it will at least make the car sound good.


2. Remove the air intake resonator/baffle that is mounted below the air filter box and in front of the driver's side wheel well. Again, this won't necessarily do anything one way or the other for performance, but it will improve the audio profile of the engine when under load, especially while operating at WOT.


3a. Install a catch can or similarly effective device inline on the PCV to intake plenum line. This one is more about preventative maintenance, as it will keep the intake plenum from getting gummed up with oily sludge from the PCV valve. For the 3.5L engines, this one is especially helpful because of the engine's propensity for producing blow-by and the intake plenum's usage of the short-runner valve system for air charge redirection above 5K RPMs. Running without a catch can and allowing the plenum to get oily and sludgy will eventually lead to the short-runner valves' getting gummed up and stuck in the closed position, and that will absolutely decrease performance, especially above 5K (and/or at WOT).


3b. If you're not already running 10W-30 motor oil, start. That's what the owner's manual recommends, and it's likely due to the conditions mentioned in 3a. You can run a 5W-30 motor oil and not hurt the engine, but the engine will burn it off quicker and more of it will end up in the intake plenum as sludge. Run a 10W-30, especially one that's resistant to evaporating like Mobil Super 5K, and you'll be doing yourself and your engine a huge favor in terms of maintenance later on down the road (> 100K miles).


4. Get a tuner and start running the hottest tune your local gasoline will allow. DiabloSport Predators will work for the 3.5L engines, and you might be able to find a used one for around a $100 for sale on one of the various LX forums like this one, ChargerForums, LXForums, etc. If not a Predator, you can still get a DiabloSport inTune2 for it, though at a much higher price (new ones will be close to $500). But either way, get a tuner and start running the 93 octane tune if such gasoline is available where you live, and if not, run the 91 octane tune. Also, customizing whatever tune you run (even the stock one if you only want to run that one) to address any observed STKR (and especially LTKR) at WOT is recommended, though not absolutely necessary. (It will help maximize the performance increase that comes with running the hotter tune though.)


5. If you can find a good CAI, buy it and replace the factory air intake box and tube with it. Though I have to stress it needs to be a GOOD one. That means it cannot be made out of stainless steel or aluminum, as it will be even more prone to heat soak and ultimately be counterproductive in producing more HP/TQ. Ideally, the air intake tube of an aftermarket CAI would be carbon fiber or plastic or something similarly heat resistant. (You'll really want to have a tuner if you run an aftermarket CAI too, as your tune will need to be adjusted to know the CAI is present to maximize its effectiveness).

See this thread for some reference on what I am talking about with the CAI's construction material and heat soak issues, etc.:
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f449/evolution-cai-585977/


6. Always prefer Top Tier gasoline, no matter what grade you're buying, over non-Top Tier gasoline. If unable to find it on a consistent basis, make sure to run a PEA-containing gas treatment regularly to keep valve deposits and combustion chamber crud to a minimum (not to mention clean up any that's already formed).

See this thread for more info and details on which fuel treatments you should use if you plan on going that route:
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f108/fuel-treatments-work-some-dont-563641/



And that's about it without getting into the expensive or work-intensive (or both) stuff. If you can do most of those things to your 3.5L Challenger, it will definitely make the car more fun to drive and better performing, to a point. But let's face it, the car (with you in it and a tank of gas) weighs 4K lbs and trying to push that much weight around with the 3.5L is always going to be an exercise in patience, especially from a dead-stop. But, as long as you're not hoping to win any drag races, you'll still have a car which looks good, sounds good, and is fun to drive. And what more can you ask after all?!?


Good luck, and don't forget to keep us posted on any mods!
Nuke


P.S. I've got some write-ups on some of this stuff scattered around this forum, so you can probably find them with a quick search if you want. Or you can always ask me, and I can provide any details which you're after. Also, you might want to join up on some of the other LX forums since they also came with the 3.5L back in 2010 and older, so there will be more information on those forums than there is here most of the time (with regards to the 3.5L specifically).

P.P.S. The next step up after this list of stuff would be replacing the stock 2.87 rear end with a 3.73 or something similar. Those are easy to find at junkyards (came stock in Avengers and other 2.7L V6 LXs) and relatively inexpensive too, but they will be a bear to swap out if doing the work yourself and probably pretty expensive to pay to have swapped out if not....so take that for what it's worth...And then beyond that, you're looking at getting the 5 speed NAG1 automatic trans if yours has the 4 speed, but there again, that's going to be either a bear to do or expensive to pay someone else to do, so it's probably not on the table any time soon I'm guessing.
 

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Afraid I can't say. It was on a body panel. Any body panel in the hot sun will get to quite high temps. I don't think the hood specifically would be an issue.

A Guy
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Afraid I can't say. It was on a body panel. Any body panel in the hot sun will get to quite high temps. I don't think the hood specifically would be an issue.

A Guy
HEY!! Pump the brakes there, Richy McRitch!

We can't all live like kings out in Silicon Valley in million dollar houses like you! But that's no reason to cast slings and arrows about "living in the hood" ya know?!?

Some of us actually prefer a more frugal habitation...we can't help it if our houses are only valued in the hundreds of thousands :frown:
 

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I don't know about living like kings, when 1 BR apartments on my street are $2300 and up a month, I think rich has raised the bar! BTW, this is a million dollar home in the Bay Area

index.jpg

A million five if there is a bidding war. My hood is a burb :)

A Guy
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I don't know about living like kings, when 1 BR apartments on my street are $2300 and up a month, I think rich has raised the bar! BTW, this is a million dollar home in the Bay Area

View attachment 824817

A million five if there is a bidding war. My hood is a burb :)

A Guy
While my current humble abode is definitely more spacious and fancy than that one, it is sadly quite a step up from the ramshackle box I lived in as an adolescent child and teenage nukester :frown:
 

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But that molded you! The merits of that I leave to others >:)

A Guy
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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But that molded you! The merits of that I leave to others >:)

A Guy
Well, it did leave an impression on me...no it literally left an impression on me! My paternal grandfather built it to suit his rather short stature. He never met me though, so how could he have known that I would be taller than he ever was by my 12th bday and top out at 6' 8" by the time I graduated HS and moved out to go to college?

He couldn't have is the answer...which is why I didn't curse his name each and every time I banged my head on a door frame walking thru that house, which has to have been in the hundreds of times over the years.

Yep, that left quite an impression on me...I eventually developed a little crease in my skull from it!!

:crying:

Okay, that last part may be a little exaggerated, but the rest is the god's honest truth, I assure you!
 

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Hit his head a lot as a child!

A Guy
 

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4) replace the older 4L60 4 speed automatic trans with the newer NAG1 5 speed automatic trans
If the OPs SE is a 2010, it already has the NAG-1 5 speed automatic. Just the '09s had the older 4 speed box.
 
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