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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello

mine is 2013 5.7 has: AFE Power Stage 2 CAI * Jet 180T-stat * BT Catch Can * Muffler deleted with custom 2.5" mid-pipe

i bought Trinity couple of weeks ago

i did calibration update and tune the car for the fist time worked well

(( i'm running 95 octane fuel here in the Middle East which is the equivalent of 91 US )

initially I used 91 pre tune without any modification to WOT spark & fuel


on the 17 of July I went to a local tuner who has Dynojet and also he tuned my car using the trinity itself

first he returned the stock file and gave it a run

the car made 316rwhp and almost 355rwtq


** Temperature were about 38°C ( about 100°F ! ), Humidity no more than 35% and latitude about 620 meters **


then he said he'll use 93 pre tune because its timing table is better, and then he adjusted spark and fuel and make sure that there is no knock

he decreased the fuel about 4%

then he hit it and the car made 329rwhp but there was knock and AFR was 12 !!!

He said that AFR should be 12.4 to 12.7 maximum !! not convinced until i saw that knock

we return the fuel to 0% adjustment and gave it a hit

it went rich !!!! AIT went really high because of the pulls and the weather, so we ended up with 2 choices:

1- adjust fuel and retard timing to avoid !!
2- add fuel and add timing

so he decreased 9% of fuel in 5k-7k WOT fuel, and added 2 degrees in WOT spark

the car made 326rwhp and AIT was high he said if we leave the car for about 3 hours and let the engine cool down you will see higher number.



the peak stops at 5250rpm and start to fall down, he said there is no benefit to shift at 6k RPM

he sugest to remove cats to keep HP graph stable after 5250 RPM which allow me to shift at 6k RPM








AFR was a bit rich even after decreasing and the engine knocks !!!!

My question here guys:

does that knock happened to all 5.7 vvt engines ??

does it worth to custom tune with my modification ??
 

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9 out of 10 report at least some. I've read a post on the DS site from someone in the middle east about knock, and it was said that octane ratings there are not the same as the US, which is what the tune was developed on.

Did he tell you how many degrees your TCM was adjusting?

Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
 

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Yes. If the knock sensors are detecting it, then the PCM should be retarding the timing.
No offense meant here, but I'm having trouble understanding what the goal was, unless I'm misunderstanding some of what you said. If you wanted dyno numbers, just dyno it. If you want a dyno tune, get someone with CMR software that can do it right.
You said he tuned your car using the Trinity. Do you mean he made adjustments to your PCM with the Trinity, using the caned tune? And he adjusted the timing of the 93 tune to "make sure there is knock", THEN put it on the dyno and logged? And in that log he showed you where it was knocking? Then, to "fix" the knock, he advanced WOT spark and pulled fuel? Was the knock ONLY at WOT?
If I am understanding this right, you need to stay far away from this guy. If he installed that 93 canned tuned, and basically just guessing he should go ahead and pull fuel and advancing your spark, then do a WOT dyno pull, he is risking damage to your engine.
You could have data logged on the street and made adjustments on your own, with research to do it right, if needed. I hope I'm wrong, misunderstanding, or am just totally ignorant to or missing something here.



Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
 

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If it was knocking with the 93 tune, I would downgrade to the 91 tune to see if their is still knock. It may be that your car just shouldn't run the 93 tune... If this guy (tuner) has no experience with the Diablo, he may not be the right person to be messing with your car. Your better off working with Johan or Hemi-fever and getting an email tune, do some data logging with them and you will have a great tune, but this guy... What experience does he have with Hemi's or the Diablo tuner?

Install the 91 Tune, data log your knk's and work with one of the above mentioned tuners...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes. If the knock sensors are detecting it, then the PCM should be retarding the timing.
No offense meant here, but I'm having trouble understanding what the goal was, unless I'm misunderstanding some of what you said. If you wanted dyno numbers, just dyno it. If you want a dyno tune, get someone with CMR software that can do it right.
You said he tuned your car using the Trinity. Do you mean he made adjustments to your PCM with the Trinity, using the caned tune? And he adjusted the timing of the 93 tune to "make sure there is knock", THEN put it on the dyno and logged?

he used the trinity itself ( not CMR ) and while running in the dyne he was logging

And in that log he showed you where it was knocking? Then, to "fix" the knock, he advanced WOT spark and pulled fuel? Was the knock ONLY at WOT?

YES only at WOT

If I am understanding this right, you need to stay far away from this guy. If he installed that 93 canned tuned, and basically just guessing he should go ahead and pull fuel and advancing your spark, then do a WOT dyno pull, he is risking damage to your engine.

well he add fuel initially to avoid any lean or knock, then he started adjusting (thats his way)

You could have data logged on the street and made adjustments on your own, with research to do it right, if needed. I hope I'm wrong, misunderstanding, or am just totally ignorant to or missing something here.

i appreciate your response buddy, i did data logging afterwards and the car performs well

.

he advice me to improve my exhaust system by throwing cats and keep it 2.5" all the way to the end, and i was thinking to put some SRT shorties.

i went to a FFFFF***ing juckyard specialised in DODGE and Chrysler and i ask them about these shorties and they offer me such a f***ing price.. guess what ? just shorties WITHOUT pipes and bolts for $500 !!!

a buddy i found in Facebook offered them for $190 shipped to FL ( i have a business address ) !!!!!!!!!!!

twice the price :cursin::cursin::cursin::cursin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If it was knocking with the 93 tune, I would downgrade to the 91 tune to see if their is still knock. It may be that your car just shouldn't run the 93 tune... If this guy (tuner) has no experience with the Diablo, he may not be the right person to be messing with your car. Your better off working with Johan or Hemi-fever and getting an email tune, do some data logging with them and you will have a great tune, but this guy... What experience does he have with Hemi's or the Diablo tuner?

Install the 91 Tune, data log your knk's and work with one of the above mentioned tuners...
unfortunately it's not just the tuner issue

it is the fuel issue, fuel here is cheep and crap ! so nothing totally wrong with the tuner.

i would love to go with Johan or Hemi-fever

but i have absolutely no idea how to contact them

or what is the procedure to get them tune my car

i have a mobile hotspot which i connect my laptop while i'm out ( which i think it is a great idea to log and get a tune back IMMEDIATELY if possible :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin: )

LooooL i love to dream :spineyes:
 

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unfortunately it's not just the tuner issue

it is the fuel issue, fuel here is cheep and crap ! so nothing totally wrong with the tuner.

i would love to go with Johan or Hemi-fever

but i have absolutely no idea how to contact them

or what is the procedure to get them tune my car

i have a mobile hotspot which i connect my laptop while i'm out ( which i think it is a great idea to log and get a tune back IMMEDIATELY if possible :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin: )

LooooL i love to dream :spineyes:
[email protected] for Johan
hemifevertuning.com for hemifever

Both are equally accessible. Johan by donations, Hemifever has set prices on the website.
 

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If you have knock, you DO NOT ADD MORE TIMING and TAKE AWAY FUEL.

You want to add fuel where it has some Kr. By doing so will maybe cool the charge and faten it up to reduce the kr.
Take timing out where you see it to high. Start by doing 1 or 2 deg at a time, Add 3 to 5 % fuel and see if it helps. Sometime yes sometimes No.
As said above, use the 91 tune to start with. Log some drive around and then a few wot passes. Do them after driving around some so the motor is good and Hot. Like it will be any way, tune it from there.
BTW, I wouldnt go back to that guy thats a so called tuner, No way.
FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
LoooooooL

you hate that tuner guys

my next plan is:

BBK Shorties or SRTs + 2.5" off-road pipes + AFR

+

email tune ( Johan ganna love me with hooking AFR )
 

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Its not about hating the tuner... Here's why I think you are not in the right hands with this guy:

So you state your in the Middle East and the quality of the gas is not so great... So with that being said, your gas may only be either 89, 91 or 93 OCT... I tend to believe it's somewhere around 91 Oct (I was in Kuwait for about a year and that's what they told us the gas was rate around while I was at Camp Arifjan). So if that's the quality of what you have, your tuner should not be running you on a 93 OCT tune because the tables are better or more aggressive. He should be running you at a 91 OCT Tune, because it doesn't matter to him if he grenades your engine or not, what does he care... If the fuel isn't up to the specs of the tune, their is no way he should be tuning you for it. I think that's the biggest part of the problem right there. Your not running on 93 OCT, even if they say you are, your running with 91 and he's doing you an injustice.

2nd, you don't, and I know this from my Modding BMW's with turbos, you don't lean out the fuel (unless it's super rich). Why? Because every mod you put on your car is making your car run more efficiently, but this in the process is leaning out your AF ratio. Every mod causes your car to run leaner, so he should be richen the fuel, not leaning it out more, not unless he's got an AF monitor hooked up and it shows that it needs to be leaned out. You stated you don't have an AFR monitor yet, so how is he tuning it if he's not monitoring it?

I would hold off on getting more mods until you have your tune setup correctly, once it's dialed in and your working with someone who know's what the hell they are doing, then I would continue to mod, but continue down this road and you may end up buying a new engine instead of buying new mods. Just my two cents.
 
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LoooooooL

you hate that tuner guys

my next plan is:

BBK Shorties or SRTs + 2.5" off-road pipes + AFR

+

email tune ( Johan ganna love me with hooking AFR )

Really, get you a catch can. Get a A/F gauge. I used the AEM so I have a dial gauge on the dash I can see easy and I have the AEM from the gauge hooked up to my Trinity for data logging.
Then I would put it back to stock, find the best gas you can get. And drive around normal. Then do a few wot pulls. All on the Stock tune, and just data log.
Then we can see whats going on and go from there. Then your tuner can use those logs to start you a tune and make revisions till its right. Yes, I been using Johan for many years.
Log only the pid he wants logged. Otherwise you waste space and time in the log. Slows it down.

Oh yes KR is a problem, many dont know they have.
Theres my 2 cents on the issue.
Flattop
 
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