Dodge Challenger Forum banner

101 - 120 of 141 Posts

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #101 (Edited)
Success! Bolted up the engine and got everything together but the front clip (need to bleed the intercooler and it is easier to it with it off). Loaded the modified tune and I primed the engine by cranking it several times with the accelerator fully depressed. Don't have coolant so ran it for a few seconds and man does it sound different...like more of a growl. Oil pressure hit 60psi (logged the start-up) and no clanking/tapping/scrapping/rattling so I take it all is good. Got to get some coolant and distilled water but can't wait to take it for a test drive.

As promised here is my original tune and tune modified with the hell cat VVT tables.

Oh and my war wounds are minimal.
978753
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
762 Posts
This is awesome congrats on the success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #104 (Edited)
Thanks but I got my inspiration from DakBuilder's thread from a while back. He did a real nice write up, my thread is more ramblings. There is also a thread from Borntorun where he just installed a 6.4 cam in his 5.7.

It really is not that bad just need space, good lighting, dry/cool environment (humidity kills my mojo), time and some organization. If I was 20 years younger I would have had this done over the weekend in the driveway of my parents house but being older and the car not being a daily driver I took my time...maybe a little too much time but I need my Arnold Palmer lemonade iced tea...with some kick. I would recommend NOT to replace the springs in the car as it adds a lot of time. Just pull the heads and do it on a work bench. In fact, there was a guy on youtube that did it in his ram and he said the process took him +5 hours...tack on a lot more time with a challenger as there is no room between the chassis and heads to get your fingers where they need to be. In the end, thick, viscous grease (it wasn't assembly lube but gear lube from stihl for their weed wacker shafts) that helped me get the keepers on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Congrats! I replaced the springs on my truck in the past but the head was on the bench. I was telling myself how do people do this while the head is still attached on the block (kudos to you). I can imagine how much patience you have doing the ones under the cowl. Looking forward to hear the perf improvement and vid when you get a chance. Again, thanks for sharing the tips/tricks. I know it will be handy one of this days when i decided to get adventurous:)

Success! Bolted up the engine and got everything together but the front clip (need to bleed the intercooler and it is easier to it with it off). Loaded the modified tune and I primed the engine by cranking it several times with the accelerator fully depressed. Don't have coolant so ran it for a few seconds and man does it sound different...like more of a growl. Oil pressure hit 60psi (logged the start-up) and no clanking/tapping/scrapping/rattling so I take it all is good. Got to get some coolant and distilled water but can't wait to take it for a test drive.

As promised here is my original tune and tune modified with the hell cat VVT tables.
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #106
Ok so I added coolant to both the engine and intercooler and man I could swear this car now has more low end power and the throttle response is snapper. Only drove it down the block but feels strong. Now I really want to get it dyno tuned!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
762 Posts
Do it. You won’t regret getting it dyno tunes. Plus I really need to know what a Hellcat can will do for our baby 5.7’s. Thanks for the Kudo’s I totally forgot about the cam swap thread I did. Hopefully it helped you out in some way. I know your thread helped me for this next cam swap on my new to me 6.4


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #108
Brought the challenger to work today, ambient was 63F. I was taking it easy (kept it out of boost) as I was logging (reset the adaptives before I set out) and right off the bat I noticed the throttle would hang when coming to a stop (target idle was 800 rpm but actual was 1600 rpm). My fuel trims are way negative which is weird because I would think the engine now wants more fuel (i.e. bigger cam). Before I mess with any airflow settings I need to get the fuel trims back in check. Maybe that might fix the hang, we'll see on the ride home. Anyways, I need to get this rig driveable so I can take to a dyno tuner...most are over an hour away from me. :( I was thinking Barth but I remember a member having a bad experience there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
First off, congrats on getting her put back together and running! So, I'm assuming the plan now is to get the tune straightened out yourself, then get it professionally dyno-tuned. Are you then planning on taking it to the track? I seem to recall seeing posts in the Track forums where you posted times. What were you running prior to this update? Predictions on where you'll end up?
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #110 (Edited)
First off, congrats on getting her put back together and running! So, I'm assuming the plan now is to get the tune straightened out yourself, then get it professionally dyno-tuned. Are you then planning on taking it to the track? I seem to recall seeing posts in the Track forums where you posted times. What were you running prior to this update? Predictions on where you'll end up?
Yup that is the plan but I never tracked the car nor do I really have the desire to track it. If I had I would have bought an automatic trans equipped challenger for that.

BTW drove the car around during lunch with the new tune, fuel trims are now good but throttle hang is still there. I had this before when I installed the supercharger but forgot what the fix was? Going to have to look at my old tunes to see which table was changed to remedy it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
656 Posts
Yup that is the plan but I never tracked the car nor do I really have the desire to track it. If I had I would have bought an automatic trans equipped challenger for that.

BTW drove the car around during lunch with the new tune, fuel trims are now good but throttle hang is still there. I had this before when I installed the supercharger but forgot what the fix was? Going to have to look at my old tunes to see which table was changed to remedy it.
Glad to see you have it back on the road! That throttle hang seems to be an issue with tuning these Hemi's. I had to get a few revisions with my tune for my 274 cam before that was ironed out completely. That and slow RPM drops.
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #112
Glad to see you have it back on the road! That throttle hang seems to be an issue with tuning these Hemi's. I had to get a few revisions with my tune for my 274 cam before that was ironed out completely. That and slow RPM drops.
The fix last time was to drop the air flow values in the 500-2000 rpm range in the ETC tables (Arrington tweaked the tune back then). I removed 20% more but I still get a cruise control effect when there is no pedal input and the car is coasting. Funny thing is the throttle blade stays ever so slightly open (that's why expected torque shows up) and then closes after awhile but the torque request never changes from pedal. I'll figure it out. Other than that engine runs strong (low end torque is definitely improved) and has no stumble or surge. It runs well enough that I feel comfortable driving it to a performance shop...which I still have not decided on.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
656 Posts
The fix last time was to drop the air flow values in the 500-2000 rpm range in the ETC tables (Arrington tweaked the tune back then). I removed 20% more but I still get a cruise control effect when there is no pedal input and the car is coasting. Funny thing is the throttle blade stays ever so slightly open (that's why expected torque shows up) and then closes after awhile but the torque request never changes from pedal. I'll figure it out. Other than that engine runs strong (low end torque is definitely improved) and has no stumble or surge. It runs well enough that I feel comfortable driving it to a performance shop...which I still have not decided on.
Did you check the volts to the TB. They had me log the DTHR Volts. There may be something that has to be tweaked there as well.
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #114 (Edited)
Yup I have pedal and throttle voltage (although not threshold...that I thought is preset by the tune) which is why I can see the throttle hang open ever so slightly and it coincides with the jump in expected torque. What I find unusually is I also log commanded torque source and I only see pedal despite the pedal not being used?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Great thread, glad to hear everything went good. I'm planning on installing new cam and full MDS delete in my 5.7 over the winter. Let us know if you find a good shop for tuning in the Chicago area. Lots of reputable LS shops around, not sure of any that specialize in the Gen III Hemi.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
762 Posts
Chally, The more you drive the car the better the fuel trims and what have you will get if you are still using ANN. If you are speed density then that is an entirely different ball of wax. Every so often after my burn out at the track, my throttle hangs as well. One or two blips of the pedal and it corrects itself. With the new setup I'm going to, I'm going to try to figure out what exactly is happening here. Glad you are getting on the right track. I'm hoping to be S/C'd like you in the near future.
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #117
Chally, The more you drive the car the better the fuel trims and what have you will get if you are still using ANN. If you are speed density then that is an entirely different ball of wax. Every so often after my burn out at the track, my throttle hangs as well. One or two blips of the pedal and it corrects itself. With the new setup I'm going to, I'm going to try to figure out what exactly is happening here. Glad you are getting on the right track. I'm hoping to be S/C'd like you in the near future.
Since I am not running a big cam I am tuning with ANN on. I have scaled the injectors to get the fuel trims to be within 5-10%. Latest issue now is when I hold the throttle at 1000 rpm the engine starts to hunt (RPMs oscillate) but it goes away once engine hits operating temp. Last time I experienced something like this was when I enabled sensed MAP and set the threshold to 0 like in the Tuning School book showed but I haven't touched those settings. Other than that I am really enjoying the hands-on practise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
762 Posts
It’s a hoot for sure. What do you have the warmup enchrichment set too. Maybe try playing with that a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #119
It’s a hoot for sure. What do you have the warmup enchrichment set too. Maybe try playing with that a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You mean the cold FA enrich table? It's stock and from the looks of the 5.7 and 6.2 tables no enrichment is added until ECTs are in the 40s, engine is well above that as temps are in the 60s. I have been rereading the tuning school book and they mention tweaking the inj pulse startup base using a wideband to get clean startups but the problem I have is when I tip in the throttle it tends to stumble in the 1000-1500 rpm range....that and the hunting at 1000 rpm. I remember one forum member on HP tuners recommended changing the fuel trim learn breakpoints but before I do that I need to look at my fueling at startup. Problem is it takes several seconds for my wideband to warm up as it does not power up until the engine is running. Rather than rewire it I have an extra bung on the passenger header that I was thinking of using with a temporary uego setup. I also want to try and have VCM scanner hold idle at 1000 rpm but it seems when I try to scan after setting it, it reverts back to the tune. Not sure if it is an issue with the beta version or if it is not meant to work that way?

I still can't believe how crisp the revs and throttle response are at +3000rpm. Yeah I should get off the pot and get the car dyno tuned but I really enjoy tweaking the tune myself not to mention I probably only have a month before I park the car for the winter. I have been on my laptop looking at logs and the stock hell cat tune just about every day...hope the wife doesn't think I a look at porn....as Shorty said..."No time for love Dr. Jones."
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
6,171 Posts
Discussion Starter #120 (Edited)
One thing that I have been wondering since doing the cam swap was whether the oil pump from a 6.2 or 6.4 could be used in a non-MDS 5.7? If you look up the part numbers, each engine uses a different pump but the 6.4 uses the same pump as a 6.1, which I thought can be used in a 5.7....so I am guessing...yes the pumps are swappable.

Well, according to the "New Hemi Engines" book the pumps are swappable but in the book they recommend using the Melling 6.2 performance pump for any supercharged engine application.
 
101 - 120 of 141 Posts
Top