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Discussion Starter #121
Well my extra wideband gauge and sensor showed up. Don't plan on installing it permanently since I already have a wideband in the car. This new setup will be for tuning startup. Bought the AEM UEGO but I was hoping they had a hand mount for it which they don't so I 3D printed my own. I will post a link to the design later.
979519
 

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Well my extra wideband gauge and sensor showed up. Don't plan on installing it permanently since I already have a wideband in the car. This new setup will be for tuning startup. Bought the AEM UEGO but I was hoping they had a hand mount for it which they don't so I 3D printed my own. I will post a link to the design later.
View attachment 979519
I don't need a second wideband. I have my installed gauge wired up so I can plug it directly into my Trinity since I don't use HP tuning.

BTW, I'm installing a cam too, along with a bunch of other stuff right now...
 

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Well looky there, another smilie that doesn't animate on this web site... For those who care, it's doing the wave.
 

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Discussion Starter #124 (Edited)
I don't need a second wideband. I have my installed gauge wired up so I can plug it directly into my Trinity since I don't use HP tuning.

BTW, I'm installing a cam too, along with a bunch of other stuff right now...
I too have a gauge in the car which hooks up to the HP prolink for logging but the way it is wired up is it does not power the gauge until the PCM confirms the engine is running. So it is not possible to log start-up events as it takes about a minute for the gauge to come online. The second gauge and sensor also will read bank 2 so it would be nice to see how balanced fueling actually is as well. I could rewire the gauge in the car to work with just KOEO but I don't want the heater element on when I just have the radio on and engine off.
 

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If you right click> Save as on the images, it wants to save as a .webp file, if you click on it in a reply, it wants to save in correct .gif format. I wonder if that's the issue?

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How can I right click on a Macintosh? BTW, my smilies are usually links. I don't like to upload them if I don't have to, but this is an uploaded, animated smilie that is supposed to be in my signature along with a link to a photo of my Shaker.
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Discussion Starter #129
Brought the challenger to work today, ambient was 63F. I was taking it easy (kept it out of boost) as I was logging (reset the adaptives before I set out) and right off the bat I noticed the throttle would hang when coming to a stop (target idle was 800 rpm but actual was 1600 rpm). My fuel trims are way negative which is weird because I would think the engine now wants more fuel (i.e. bigger cam). Before I mess with any airflow settings I need to get the fuel trims back in check. Maybe that might fix the hang, we'll see on the ride home. Anyways, I need to get this rig driveable so I can take to a dyno tuner...most are over an hour away from me. :( I was thinking Barth but I remember a member having a bad experience there.
Interesting, this guy that installed a 6.4 in a 5.7 also saw the same negative fuel trims I was seeing with the 6.2 cam.
 

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That’s interesting info about the fuel trims on the 6.2 cams. As a matter of reference the oil pumps are interchangeable for sure. Most folks just order the Meling high volume unit as it is cheaper and better than the Mopar units.


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Discussion Starter #132 (Edited)
So here is something else that is interesting. On a stock 5.7, during start-up/idle the cam is fully advanced because the PCM does not activate the VVT OCV (it is PWM so 0% means full advance, and 100% means full retard) so the clockspring in the phaser has no oil pushing against it to retard the cam. Remember this is a single cam engine so if you advance the cam...it means the intake is advanced but by convention the exhaust is retarded.

Page 172 - 175 explains how VVT or VCT works on the Hemis.

Another explanation of how the cam moves.

So on start-up you will see on a stock 5.7 (LSA 114.5) an exhaust cam angle of about 125-128 degrees. Typically for a 6.2/6.4 the exhaust cam angle indicating full advance is 134 degrees. I thought by swapping all the VVT tables from a 6.2 manual tune the PCM would update the cam angle (LSA is 120.5 same as a 6.4 but exhaust duration is +20 more than 6.4) and that I would now see 134 degrees but that is not the case. I still see 125 degrees which to me suggest this is a value that is specified somewhere on the PCM but I just don't have access to it. Now the phaser, crankshaft sprocket, timing chain cover are the same for the 5.7 & 6.4 so it can't be a hardware thing. I am going to try an load the 6.4 VVT tables and see if anything changes but if it does not it will confirm there is a parameter that either is not mapped on the PCM or there is something wonky with my PCM and it is not taking the new value or I don't know what the futz I am talking about.
 

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So here is something else that is interesting. On a stock 5.7, during start-up/idle the cam is fully advanced because the PCM does not activate the VVT OCV (it is PWM so 0% means full advance, and 100% means full retard) so the clockspring in the phaser has no oil pushing against it to retard the cam. Remember this is a single cam engine so if you advance the cam...it means the intake is advanced but by convention the exhaust is retarded.

Page 172 - 175 explains how VVT or VCT works on the Hemis.

Another explanation of how the cam moves.

So on start-up you will see on a stock 5.7 (LSA 114.5) an exhaust cam angle of about 125-128 degrees. Typically for a 6.2/6.4 the exhaust cam angle indicating full advance is 134 degrees. I thought by swapping all the VVT tables from a 6.2 manual tune the PCM would update the cam angle (LSA is 120.5 same as a 6.4 but exhaust duration is +20 more than 6.4) and that I would now see 134 degrees but that is not the case. I still see 125 degrees which to me suggest this is a value that is specified somewhere on the PCM but I just don't have access to it. Now the phaser, crankshaft sprocket, timing chain cover are the same for the 5.7 & 6.4 so it can't be a hardware thing. I am going to try an load the 6.4 VVT tables and see if anything changes but if it does not it will confirm there is a parameter that either is not mapped on the PCM or there is something wonky with my PCM and it is not taking the new value or I don't know what the futz I am talking about.
I suspect you are correct about the values in the ECU being different. The hellcats have more tables than the 5.7/6.4’s do. I’m not sure how that all factors in as of yet but I believe you will find the answers out for us and I look forward to reading about it.


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Discussion Starter #134
Well, my suspicion was right (thanks to Hemituna)...nothing you can do to make the 5.7 think lock-pin (full cam advance) is anything but 125 degrees (exhaust). Whereas the 6.2/6.4 PCMs treat 135 degrees exhaust as full advance because they have an LSA of 120.5 degrees as opposed to an LSA of 114.5 that the 5.7 is ground to. So basically I just need to remember that 125 degrees exhaust is actually 135 degrees and work from there. Seems stupidly obvious now but considering there are settings where you can enter lock-pin max (full cam advance) and phaser max (full cam retard) one would think it would update.

 

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Discussion Starter #135
Just an update. This weekend took the challenger for a long run on the highway. As I was heading home the MIL came on and it appears to be a P219A code (Bank 1 AFR imbalance). Don't think it is anything mechanical and it appears to be tune related as I seen it is somewhat common on cam installs.
 

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I got that code after I had my long tube headers installed. It did not appear immediately. I let my tuner guy know and he sent another tune that prevented it from being displayed. I'm not sure exactly what he did to remove it though. If you need that info, let me know and I'll try doing a compare of the tunes he's sent.
 

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Discussion Starter #137
I got that code after I had my long tube headers installed. It did not appear immediately. I let my tuner guy know and he sent another tune that prevented it from being displayed. I'm not sure exactly what he did to remove it though. If you need that info, let me know and I'll try doing a compare of the tunes he's sent.
That would be nice to know if you don't mind going through the tunes. Or if you don't have the time maybe you can email them to me. I figured it is the tune as I never saw this code until the cam swap. I dialed in my headers a couple of years ago and never saw this code pop-up. Anyways, I won't be driving the car much now that it's getting close to winter. Spent an hour getting rid of all the leaves that lodged themselves into various cracks and seams.
 

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Here's what it looks like he did:

Under Engine Diag.\DTCs the following have been unchecked compared to the prior tune:

P0139
P0153
P219A
P219B

I don't -think- it is related to this solution, but in the interest of thoroughness one other update was made. Under Engine\Fuel\Power Enrich\Aircharge and PRatio, the very far right and bottom values were tweaked slightly. We're talking six or seven cells touched. If you need details, again, let me know.

Hope that helps. It's nice to give a little something back to someone who has contributed an enormous amount to this community.
 

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Discussion Starter #139
Thanks for looking into this. My fear is if I disable the DTCs it will not allow the emissions monitors to complete. I'll give it a go though.
 

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Chally I wonder if those cells or not monitored. Does the emission tester know to look for them. Just a thought. I haven’t encountered any of this yet but I suspect I’m in for it once I swap the new to me 6.4 in my car.


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