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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
well its been a long time since ive been on here. im back looking for some feedback.
i have a 2009 challenger R/T 6spd owned it for 7 years runs great looks great. 92k
mods:
1. 180 deg thermostat
nice insulated Frankenstein 4" induction system with 4"-3.5" elbow.
2. IAT relocated on induction tubing
3. 2 X 3" in and out dynomax VT mufflers with 3" tail pipes ( no resonators)
(love these mufflers incredible sound with 0 drone ) they have valves inside them.
almost straight through design when at WOT.
4. 392 rear diff
5. zeitronix wideband o2 system
6. predator 91 cia tune with modified A/F (using my wideband to dial it in)
0-60 on average is 4.5 sec.
7. 2015 tail light mod (no rear facia needed came up with a great solution for filling end gaps see pic)
8 18" vision legend rims with 295's on back 265's on frt (9" rim width on rear 8" on frt) nitto 555 tires.
9. oil catch can no at 10k
10. energy suspension complete rear suspension bushing kit. WHEEL HOP IS GONE !

ok heres my issue lifter starting to fail. starting to tap on left bank. also found a very small amount of sparkle in my oil filter when i broke it open.
my oil pressure was always good and still is. 70 deg day cold start 55psi ,warmed up 45 psi all at idle. i use only castrol edge 0/40 full synthetic .

im going to have to replace the cam and lifters as well as much more when i tear it down. so i decided to switch out the cam with a 392 along with the new hellcat liffters. i have done some research and im not looking for major power increase with a lumpier cam like the comp 274 or even the 270. the 6.4 cam is nice because from what i read i dont need a limiter for the vvt and stock push rods .but most of all its tuner friendly. i should be able to dial it in with my predator and wideband o2. but chime in if im wrong. the 392 cam seems to be what im after for saving some $$ and possibly a tune by one of the hemi tune geniuses and i do mean that they are !. and if i get at least 30 rwhp ill be happy ! im older and this car is fast enough for me at 55. im doing all this only because of lifter starting to go. so why not get some ponies out of it all.
heres my list of parts to do the job.
the prices i found are the cheapest on google

mopar
6.4 cam 05037379BC $ 205
lifters uncertain what to get no budget for hellcat ones. any suggestions ? what are good part numbers on them looking for an updated version newer years ? did they get better ?
valve springs p5160074 $ 205 the part number is for the kit ,but part number for individual spring is 4.50 adding up to $ 72
part number for spring is mopar 68277306AA will need a bit more on these from you guys on these.
timing vvt cam gear 53022243AF $60
crank gear 53022317AC $20
timing chain 53022316AC $20
tensioner 53022115AH $18
chain guide 04893429AA $15
cam bolt 06102340AA $11

FELPRO
head bolt kit ES72200 $50
head gaskets L 26423PT $31
R 26426PT $31
timing cover gas TCS46169 $39
BBK shorties 4028 $349 (1-3/4 tube size SS .direct bolt up to stock mid pipes cant afford SRT mids and center pipes.)

TOTAL $ 1419
putting back in the stock cam is a difference of $ 172 . i was doing headers anyway along with the beefy hellcat lifters.
so will call it $200 for about 40-50 hp increase thats allot of bang for buck !(with a good tune that im sure i can do myself ,i hope lol

the only thing im uncertain about is my ability to tune it correctly ,i have a wideband o2 and a predator ,and i could dial in my stock tune easily with 5.7 cam. i just think much more fuel and some spark will be needed for the 6.4 cam. but please chime in any advice would be great.
one other note . the mopar performance springs use the factory ,retainers,rods and keepers .but i dont know much more then the install height is 1.81 and up to .625" lift but i dont know if shims are needed not to much info on these. but for $ 72 for 16 im doing it. i read a few guys have reved up to 7k with them and no issues yea !

i absolutely hate the factory valve spring retainers for the beehive springs they dont cover the whole top diameter of the spring (see pic)they look very weak.also im not sure why mopar decided to eliminate these rocker stability shaft spacers ??(see pic)to save money ? the only thing keeping the rocker from moving on shaft and throwing a rod is the rod itself .go figure they used these on all the early hemis. the srt kept them but changed to a ridicules spring clip. see pic. i found these on a older hemi at junk yard and said why not. so i installed them seemed to quiet it down some to.
thanks everyone for reading .i hope i didnt break any rules first post but a 6 year member.

please feedback and any advice .
 

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2015 RT 5.7 M6
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If you are putting a 6.4 cam in a 5.7 the Predator tuner is not up to the task in terms of tuning. Why, because you will be running the 5.7 VVT tables (cannot be changed with the Predator but can be done with HP tuners) which doesn't give you the full benefits of the 6.4 cam. The Predator still can be used but someone with CMR (professional tuner) will need to adjust the tables for you.


FYI - I am going to be doing a HC cam in a SC 5.7. Only thing I am waiting for are the springs and cam. If you need the cam spring tool I show one from crane cam and snap-on that is <$200.
https://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f176/6-2-cam-swap-into-5-7-m6-forced-induction-671915/

BTW the lifters you list are not for the HC...5038787AC is specifically listed for HC
https://www.stevewhiteparts.com/oem...yMDE1JnQ9c3J0LWhlbGxjYXQmZT02LTJsLXY4LWdhcw==


As for pushrods, I swapped in the chromoly ones from comp cam...beefier and constructed better than OEM...P/N is in my thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
6.4 cam info

thanks for the reply. my bad on the hellcat lifters part number i looked them up for it and that number popped. so my predator is pretty much useless .i do know all the adjustments are for WOT so yes it couldnt work. thanks for pointing that out. sorry but what does HP mean dah ? and how would i proceed with tunning and squeezing out good hp with my pcm ? thanks again.
 

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thanks for the reply. my bad on the hellcat lifters part number i looked them up for it and that number popped. so my predator is pretty much useless .i do know all the adjustments are for WOT so yes it couldnt work. thanks for pointing that out. sorry but what does HP mean dah ? and how would i proceed with tunning and squeezing out good hp with my pcm ? thanks again.
HP tuners is also a tuner. Only difference is it allows way more tweaking of the stock calibration, it requires a PC/laptop and it is credits based (you buy credits to be abled to load tunes on the PCM...2 credits = unlimited writes to a specific VIN).
https://www.hptuners.com/products/

However, there is a steep learning curve on its use...see this post I started on the HP tuner forum.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthre...he-basic-steps&p=525502&viewfull=1#post525502

You still can use the predator log and load tunes from a tuner.

As for the VVT tables, WOT is just one of a couple but most use the WOT as a base for the rest of the tables.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
first i want to thank you sincerely on the advice and time your taking to help and info your providing.at this point i would just rather leave any tuning to the pros. are you saying i can have a tune written and loaded into my predator ? btw i have a crain cams spring tool you can borrow it any time for the help.
 

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first i want to thank you sincerely on the advice and time your taking to help and info your providing.at this point i would just rather leave any tuning to the pros. are you saying i can have a tune written and loaded into my predator ? btw i have a crain cams spring tool you can borrow it any time for the help.
No worries man, this is my first rodeo with these new hemis so adding this info in threads helps me think out loud. BTW most of the info I get is from threads from other members like Hal, Chizzle, Dakbuilder, Pector....(6.4 to 5.7 cam swap is nothing new)...I am just essentially regurgitating what I have found to help me understand and retain the info as well.

I don't have experience with the predator as I had a diablo sport trinity T1000 which was capable of datalogging and loading tunes provided by professional tuners. However, it looks like the predator is just an older interface and is functionally similar to the trinity.

As for the tool, I already purchased the snap-on one. It literally arrived next day for $143 and some change but thanks for the offer. Now just waiting for the folks at Steve White to get my order out the door....*cough* Luke *cough*. Actually I am in no big rush as I am enjoying the car and probably won't do the swap until close to fall.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
well im a bit lost on all this i got the lifter part straitened out thanks ,i cant afford the hellcat ones. ill have to get the cheaper ones can you recommend any mopar numbers for good year lifters ? did they make them better over a certain year ?
aslo any recommendations on who i may contact for a good emailed tune i can load into my predator ? i heard the name brian and i think johan ??
 

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well im a bit lost on all this i got the lifter part straitened out thanks ,i cant afford the hellcat ones. ill have to get the cheaper ones can you recommend any mopar numbers for good year lifters ? did they make them better over a certain year ?
aslo any recommendations on who i may contact for a good emailed tune i can load into my predator ? i heard the name brian and i think johan ??
Honestly, I think you are good with the 05038784AC as they are used on the 6.4. I really don't know the difference between the 2 part numbers (in fact asked the question in my thread but did not get a solid answer), you could call the guys at Steve White (Luke might chime in) to see if they know the difference? Actually MMX lists them for all hemis.
https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-282-hellcat-hemi-lifters-by-mopar-set-of-16.aspx

As for a tuner, there are several that come to mind...OSTmike (he is a regular on HP tuners forum but also tunes via diablo), Diablotoona (Johan), Hemifever, HHP...although I have no experience using them.

BTW I am thinking of getting this book as it seems to have more info on part numbers (although might be dated) and cam specs (I see variation cam specs floating around the internet...not to mention the FSM seems to give weird specs as well as they say the 5.7/6.2/6.4 have different #1 cam journal diameters).
https://moparinsiders.com/review-new-hemi-engines-how-to-rebuild-book/
 

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OP depending on where you are located, i think you can go ahead and find a reputable hemi tuning shop. A lot of tuners us HP tuners and may be able to dial it in for you. From what ive learned here on the forum, many say the car will start and run just fine on the stock tune with the 392 cam, but little to no power extracted until you start messing with the tune.
 

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Not 100% sure of this but if you do go to a local shop and they use HP tuners the Predator might not be usable anymore. With my trinity, if I loaded a custom tune with HP tuners it detects a non-stock calibration and would not marry to the car. Just letting you know if you plan on still keeping the Predator.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for the info, ill have to talk to one of those guys you mentioned, i really would like to keep my tuner married to my car i know its capable of of installing custom emailed tunes ,the real question is can a custom tune via the predator get the most out of the 6.4 cam ? hp tuners as you state can ring out the most but if its only a few HP'S Im not that concerned as i can still keep my car can still have a relationship with my predator.
 

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A custom tune will get you close but after several revisions of logging...upload tune....log some more....upload new tune. I don't know the differences between the diablo CMR and HP tuners VCM suite but either platforms will work. Some say they can get more out of the car using HP but I really don't know firsthand.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OP depending on where you are located, i think you can go ahead and find a reputable hemi tuning shop. A lot of tuners us HP tuners and may be able to dial it in for you. From what ive learned here on the forum, many say the car will start and run just fine on the stock tune with the 392 cam, but little to no power extracted until you start messing with the tune.
thanks for the input, yes i have been hearing the same thing, from what i understand .the 6.4 cam is a direct drop in for the 5.7. works very well with the vvt with no phase limiter needed (need more on this) and will run fine even without a tune. all really thats needed for hardware is beefier springs for the 5.7. im in the boston area.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
It might run ok but I would still stay out of WOT until you can confirm fueling is good.
thats what im thinking ,i have a wideband installed and can see what my A/F is doing at all rpm ranges ,im very cuious to look at that after cam is in ? it should tell me whats lacking.
it can pick up from idle to wot, i also have a star scan to play with very slow but can help watching fuel trims.
 

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OP sorry I’m late to this thread. Since you have a Predator (Diablo product) and you don’t want to unmarry it. Your only real choice is any of the reputable tuners mentioned above. I used Jay Green for my custom tune before I converted to HPT. With that said there are several good tuners who use CMR which is how you get a custom tune for Diablo products. As for the lifters are concerned, any of the VVT Manual lifters will work for your application. Including the ones you listed. This is a very time consuming process you are about to take on. If you do a search you can look up a thread I posted involving my Comp 270 install 2 years ago. It should provide you with lots of guidance for the project. Good luck and keep us posted.


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Discussion Starter #19
thanks for all the input,i did speak with a tuner johan,he knows predators very well and is very familiar with exactly what i will need for a baseline tune for the 6.4 cam and the mods i have. then data logging with my wide band and other pids. because i have a wide band its going to make easier for him to tweak the initial tune and ring out extra pony's.
 

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FYI - below is DakBuilders thread on his cam swap...lots of good info.

https://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f175/5-7-vvt-cam-installed-608369/?608369=#post7791609.

LOL just noticed my comments in that thread...going to do the swap soon...hah! Only took me a year and a half to pull the trigger. My cam and springs arrive tomorrow.


Chally thanks for finding my post brother. Send your car to MD and I’ll do the swap for yah. I’ve gone down that road once or twice lol.


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