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I occasionally do HPDE road course track events at Road Atlanta. Last time I went, I noticed my oil temp got up into the 270's (approx as I'm going off of memory). I run Amsoil synthetic and change it before my events. However, it concerns me a bit that it got that high. We run 20 minute sessions and sometimes I may have a chance to run back to back with a small break in between. The weather Temps will be much higher this time.

What is the temp maximums for the following?

6.4L - oil temp
A8 - tyranny temp

I have another session this weekend and will be tracking/documenting it.
 

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I occasionally do HPDE road course track events at Road Atlanta. Last time I went, I noticed my oil temp got up into the 270's (approx as I'm going off of memory). I run Amsoil synthetic and change it before my events. However, it concerns me a bit that it got that high. We run 20 minute sessions and sometimes I may have a chance to run back to back with a small break in between. The weather Temps will be much higher this time.

What is the temp maximums for the following?

6.4L - oil temp
A8 - tyranny temp

I have another session this weekend and will be tracking/documenting it.
not sure what maximum is, however we were seeing oil temps reaching 280+ last year, in my opinion much too high, two oil coolers added for this year, no idea on transmission, but would seriously consider adding a transmission cooler, be careful with the A8, it needs a certain amount of heat to function properly
Luke
 

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I have hit 290 once(repeated WOTs racing up a mountain at 9-10,000 feet so pretty thin air), I've read that Mobil 1 can go over 300 degrees without issue, would assume it's the same for most other oils. Car performed without issue for what it's worth...
 

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would not recommend anything above 280, it may be ok for a while, but not for repeated use, sooner or later will fail

highly recommend modifying for repeated use, under sustain full power we were are seeing temperatures above 250/260, at which point we where pulling off track

significant modifications have been performed, including new Fluidyne radiator, 2 fans, one pulling and one pushing....

2 oil coolers and 2 heat exchangers for the supercharger

Luke

ps under full power we consume fuel at approx 3 to 4 mpg
 

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According to a white paper on thermal breakdown of engine oil that I cannot find at the moment to include a link to, SN rated conventional starts to breakdown at approximately 275F, and synthetic will start around 300F, though different synthetic oils will have different breakdown temps. Amsoil's synthetic probably comes in higher than most, but that's no more than an educated guess on my part.

I'll keep looking for the source of that info and update my post with a link to it if I can find it.
 

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I remember oil temps in a BMW M-Coupe on track days being 265F. I haven't done any track days with my TA392 but around 260F seems pretty common for a track event in any factory car from my memory. I'm not sure I'd worry about it much unless its 275+. But I would absolutely shorten my oil change interval directly proportionate to the oil temps. The higher the temps and the more often the higher temps, the sooner the change. If I tracked my car a lot I'd probably do an oil change at 3000 or less and right after any track event where it was 280+. That's just my opinion though.
 

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Sequence IIIG Engine Test

The Sequence IIIG Engine Test is designed to evaluate automotive engine oils for high-temperature performance, including oil thickening, piston deposits, oil consumption and engine wear during moderately high-speed, high-temperature service. Testing is performed using a 3.8L General Motors V6 engine that operates at 126 hp and 3,600 rpm. Motor oil temperature during the test reaches a steady 302ºF. As a comparison, the typical engine temperature of a passenger car/light truck is approximately 200ºF.
But as Luke advises, you'd not want to do prolonged use at those temps.

A Guy
 

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Tracked my car regularly. Always used Mobil1. Never saw it go above 260* even in the 100* plus temps in CA. I had a custom tune with 180* stat. I’m sure it helped.
I’d also highly recommend changing the oil after each track event. FWIW, I was averaging about 5 mpg. I’d have to fill up on most track events by mid day
 

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I occasionally do HPDE road course track events at Road Atlanta. Last time I went, I noticed my oil temp got up into the 270's (approx as I'm going off of memory). I run Amsoil synthetic and change it before my events. However, it concerns me a bit that it got that high. We run 20 minute sessions and sometimes I may have a chance to run back to back with a small break in between. The weather Temps will be much higher this time.

What is the temp maximums for the following?

6.4L - oil temp
A8 - tyranny temp

I have another session this weekend and will be tracking/documenting it.

No experience to speak of with the 6.4l engine.



I will note that with my Hellcat just yesterday in 88F to 91F -- the highest ambient temperature I've encountered in months at this time of night (approx. 8:30pm) -- during my commute home from work the oil temperature quickly got up to 220F. This was not a real surprise and in fact I sort of expected it to be higher. For example, in even lower ambient temperatures in similar driving I've seen the oil temperature climb to 230F.

Then on the freeway at 65mph steady speed the oil temperature slowly dropped from 220F to 202F. I was a bit surprised the oil temperature which in cooler ambient temperature had dropped down to under 190F remained in the 200F range. In the half a mile drive from the freeway to my house the oil temperature climbed from around 200F back up to 210F.



While the track session may be scheduled to last 20 minutes you may not want to remain out and continue to run at track speeds for 20 minutes. It is the rare case a "street" car, a passenger car, can transition from street use to track use and do so without manifesting issues related to heat. I'm talking about oil temperature, brake temperature, and less obvious because most of the time these temperatures are not monitored, transmission, diff, even hydraulic power steering fluid temperatures.


While I have nothing specific for Dodge engines, FWIW Bruce Anderson who put together some pretty good books on Porsche engine building claims 250F oil temperature on track is "too damn hot". Based on this, then, rather than staying on the track for the 20 minutes you might consider cutting the session short if oil temperature gets above 250F.


And maybe you want to forego back to back sessions.


If you want to run the full 20 minute session or back to back sessions you need to consider better oil cooling to keep peak oil temperatures lower. And of course you want to avoid over cooling the oil in less severe usage conditions.


These engines are of course water cooled but a considerable amount of cooling is by oil because the oil is where the heat is.
IOWs, the oil gets so hot because it comes into direct contact with the hottest parts of the engine.
 

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Thank you all for your replies. I apologize that I have not replied sooner. I ended up getting swamped with completing work to get my car prepped for the track.

The weekend went really well. I moved into the solo class during my last event and have been putting a lot of effort into studying and practicing on a simulator for this event. I definitely felt that I was in the top 1/4 of group 2.

The track was HOT!!! Both days were very sunny and high 80's. I logged all my temps (trans, coolant, oil temp) before/after each run. The only issue I had was oil temp. At one point almost hit 300 and I pitted to let her cool off. After that incident, I changed my driving style to upshift more often so that I was at the peak torque during the apex. I also would run the first half of the session hard, come in through the pits (so she could cool off) and go back out for the last half of the session. This helped a lot and never allowed her to go over 280.

Side note - There was also a charger scat pack there as well. I went and talked to him and he hit the same temps as well. I will get my journal and log my temps later this week so that everyone can see them.
 

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Thank you all for your replies. I apologize that I have not replied sooner. I ended up getting swamped with completing work to get my car prepped for the track.

The weekend went really well. I moved into the solo class during my last event and have been putting a lot of effort into studying and practicing on a simulator for this event. I definitely felt that I was in the top 1/4 of group 2.

The track was HOT!!! Both days were very sunny and high 80's. I logged all my temps (trans, coolant, oil temp) before/after each run. The only issue I had was oil temp. At one point almost hit 300 and I pitted to let her cool off. After that incident, I changed my driving style to upshift more often so that I was at the peak torque during the apex. I also would run the first half of the session hard, come in through the pits (so she could cool off) and go back out for the last half of the session. This helped a lot and never allowed her to go over 280.

Side note - There was also a charger scat pack there as well. I went and talked to him and he hit the same temps as well. I will get my journal and log my temps later this week so that everyone can see them.
280 in my opinion is too hot for extended track time, need to bring down below 260
Luke
 

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Thank you all for your replies. I apologize that I have not replied sooner. I ended up getting swamped with completing work to get my car prepped for the track.

The weekend went really well. I moved into the solo class during my last event and have been putting a lot of effort into studying and practicing on a simulator for this event. I definitely felt that I was in the top 1/4 of group 2.

The track was HOT!!! Both days were very sunny and high 80's. I logged all my temps (trans, coolant, oil temp) before/after each run. The only issue I had was oil temp. At one point almost hit 300 and I pitted to let her cool off. After that incident, I changed my driving style to upshift more often so that I was at the peak torque during the apex. I also would run the first half of the session hard, come in through the pits (so she could cool off) and go back out for the last half of the session. This helped a lot and never allowed her to go over 280.

Side note - There was also a charger scat pack there as well. I went and talked to him and he hit the same temps as well. I will get my journal and log my temps later this week so that everyone can see them.

Oil temperature hitting 300F is borderline (or beyond borderline) insanity. Even 280F ain't cool (no pun).



Frankly, it reads like your car has no business on the track other than perhaps as a pace car. Just because you can drive a street car to a track and drive it around the track at some speed does not mean it is suited for this usage.


My advice is if you want to continue to track the car find a way to ensure oil temperature remains below at least 250F when on the track and does not result in the oil running too cold when the car is not being tracked.
 

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Oil temperature hitting 300F is borderline (or beyond borderline) insanity. Even 280F ain't cool (no pun).



Frankly, it reads like your car has no business on the track other than perhaps as a pace car. Just because you can drive a street car to a track and drive it around the track at some speed does not mean it is suited for this usage.

I'm sorry but I find that statement to be completely ridiculous.


People drag race their street cars with street tires and are nowhere remotely close to an optimal drag race setup. Just because they aren't running full slicks and 90/10 weight transfer shocks etc. doesn't mean they can't go out and have a good time enjoying their car. Same for a road course. So what if it doesn't run as cool as a dedicated proper racing setup. As long as the user knows the limitations and keeps an eye on parameters etc. and maybe changes oil after each event etc, there is no reason to not go out and enjoy some track days. By your account then there should never be a street legal car doing any kind of racing ever. Save racing for only true dedicated race cars. And that goes against absolutely everything that any car guy / hot rodder has ever wanted.
 

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Get a custom tune with a 180* stat and you’ll see lower temps. I used to race in 100* plus southern CA weather and my oil temps never went above 260*.
 

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I'm sorry but I find that statement to be completely ridiculous.


People drag race their street cars with street tires and are nowhere remotely close to an optimal drag race setup. Just because they aren't running full slicks and 90/10 weight transfer shocks etc. doesn't mean they can't go out and have a good time enjoying their car. Same for a road course. So what if it doesn't run as cool as a dedicated proper racing setup. As long as the user knows the limitations and keeps an eye on parameters etc. and maybe changes oil after each event etc, there is no reason to not go out and enjoy some track days. By your account then there should never be a street legal car doing any kind of racing ever. Save racing for only true dedicated race cars. And that goes against absolutely everything that any car guy / hot rodder has ever wanted.

maybe or maybe not, drag racing is very different then sustain 20 or 30 minute sessions, i think what he is trying to say is a failure is or will be eminent.....if you dont do something to cool it down......300 oil temps is an issue and you will suffer a failure at some point

if your going to track the car, make some attempts at modifying to prevent failures

Luke
 

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ps, and since everything is on the internet and social medias, dont be surprised when big brother declines warranty
 

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some of the things many years of racing have taught me,

we never go on the track unless ready......this is a biggie and nearly got me killed

maintenance starts 8 am the following day of a track event,not the day of the event

we have a dedicated maintenance list and a blank sheet of paper taped on the 1/4 panel, car does not move until everything has been scratched off and initialed

we doubled and triple check everything, we constantly re torque the wheels

we never assume anything, if in doubt, check, even when you think its been checked, check again

high quality wheels is a most, wheels, especially cheap wheels will break, the load forces and constant cornering will flex them into pieces, cheap ebay wheels is a no no

be ready to spend and buy the best safety equipment, always, the difference between life and death ( my daughter survived a major crash because of a Hans device and full containment seat, the engine was beside her in the car, or what was left of it)

common sense, use it

replace components before they break, for example we replaced both front wheel bearings on Bigred last fall and we just replaced the rears recently, could not see anything wrong with them, but lots of abuse,

:wink3:
 

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I'm sorry but I find that statement to be completely ridiculous.


People drag race their street cars with street tires and are nowhere remotely close to an optimal drag race setup. Just because they aren't running full slicks and 90/10 weight transfer shocks etc. doesn't mean they can't go out and have a good time enjoying their car. Same for a road course. So what if it doesn't run as cool as a dedicated proper racing setup. As long as the user knows the limitations and keeps an eye on parameters etc. and maybe changes oil after each event etc, there is no reason to not go out and enjoy some track days. By your account then there should never be a street legal car doing any kind of racing ever. Save racing for only true dedicated race cars. And that goes against absolutely everything that any car guy / hot rodder has ever wanted.

Was not talking about drag racing. But drag racing brings with it is own problems that can quickly show up the car's weak points. In your statement above probably a good thing the owner is not racing on full slicks because the grip is less than optimal. Otherwise the drive shaft or even diff would fail.

You chose to ignore the post in which the OP mentioned oil temperatures to 300F and even after he changed his driving style oil temperature was in the 280F range.

280F is based on my info too damn hot for oil on the track for a car that serves as a dual purpose car. I offered in a earlier post the advice he find a way to bring that oil temperature down but to be sure not to over cool the oil when the car was used on the street.

There is the oil temperature but another concern I have is the oil system, the volume and quality of the oil the oiling system can supply the engine under track conditions. G-forces are quite high on the track -- naturally -- and the oil is affected by g-force and this will have the oil move forward under braking, rearward under hard acceleration and to one side or the other under cornering. 'course, there are combinations of acceleration/cornering or braking/cornering that really the oil in the pan can be anywhere but gathered/concentrated around the oil pump pickup.

Even if the oil level doesn't fall that low that the oil pump sucks air the oil level is low -- a considerable amount of oil is suspended as droplets/vapor in the crankcase -- and what oil is in the oil pan may not have had time to lose is aeration. Even on the dyno it is not that rare of an event for the oil level to get so low that the oil returning to the pan with its air gets picked up by the oil pump and the air in the oil results in partial hydraulic lifter collapse and the engine's output near red line falls off as the collapsing lifters alter valve lift and timing.

So the OP can deal with the obvious problem of elevated oil temperature but it might not be until a bearing is spun he becomes aware of the marginal oiling the engine receives on the track

But if the owner wants to continue to use the car on the track and subject the engine to this elevated oil temperature, and run the risk of inadequate oiling, that's his business.

As for servicing, the OP said he changed the oil before an event and good for him. Since it is a dual purpose car changing the oil after a track event is a good idea, probably a requirement unless the OP likes playing Russian Roulette with the engine.


There has been no mention of the transmission fluid and diff fluid. These are subjected to excessive heat and the components they lubricate certainly see high loads. While probably not necessary to change before or after every track session once a "season" might be a very good idea.


I've done some motorcycle racing and some auto crossing. The amount of work to prepare and keep even something as simple as a motorcycle with an air cooled single cylinder engine ready for the track after serving as a week day ride was huge. And more than once when something vibrated loose did I realize I missed something.

The auto crossing was not that long or fast of a course to really heat the oil up that much. But it still required fresh oil the day before the event and a thorough inspection of the car. It is my habit to not drive a car with small issues like a "small" coolant leak or oil leak, or a slow tire leak, etc., so I didn't have to deal with these before hitting the auto cross course but one still has to stay on top of things.

For a large/heavy and powerful car like a Challenger with the 6.4l engine a number of things will require attention. One can't let the brakes get too worn. The brake fluid gets plenty hot and needs to be changed. It should be flushed/bled before each event to ensure the fluid is as fresh and water free as possible. And it might not be a bad idea to flush/bleed it again after an event.

Tires are another concern. A dedicated set of wheels fitted with track tires that one can also use to drive the car to/from the track. And hope one doesn't pick up something in a tire on the way to/from the track.

Wheel bearings. Wheel bearing failure on a street car is a rare event in my experience. My 2002 Boxster manifested a bad wheel bearing at around 80K miles but that is the only bad wheel bearing any vehicle I have owned has ever had, over nearly 1M miles of driving. But a car like the Challenger used on the track several times a year wheel bearings might need to be replaced on a yearly schedule and maybe more often if the bearings manifest signs of distress before a year is up.

Have to mention one really can't use the track and the car's behavior on the track to let him know something needs attention. A bad wheel bearing on the street might/probably does give some warning. On the track the bearing might suffer a catastrophic failure that could result in a loss of control of the car. Likewise one can't let a suddenly soft brake pedal be a signal it is time to flush/bleed the brake fluid.

A coolant leak could dump coolant on the track ahead of the rear tires and coolant is nearly as slick as oil. If the car doesn't go off the following car could.

Thus the car owner must be proactive and service/replace on a much more aggressive schedule. This can run into a considerable expense.

Not many are really prepared to spend the money, the time, to ensure the car is in tip top shape for track day.

Not a few car buyers believe/assume and certainly desire that they can take their car to the track and run wild and free. But tracking puts a huge amount of stress on the car, its cooling system, its oiling system, the drive train, the brakes, power steering.

A good number of automakers do not want to burden every car with the additional cost it takes to make the car track worthy. The payoff is just not there.

So while the car is perfectly suitable for use on the street a number of weaknesses become evident when the car is subjected to track use. It is not a good idea to ignore these when they appear. Better in fact is to address these *before* showing up at the track.

This does not mean the car can't be tracked. What it does mean is the owner has to be able to monitor vital signs and when for example the oil temperature climbs to unsuitable level to back off. But this can require cutting the session short by a considerable amount of time and the owner may not be willing to do that. All that prep time and money he has expended to get to this day/time weighs heavily on his right foot.
 
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