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Discussion Starter #1
I am finding it is very hard to change gears sometime on my 2015 M6 scatpack

For instance, if the car is parked in reverse, and I clutch in and attempt to put it into neutral I literally have to put most of my strength into yanking the shifter into neutral. Same goes for when in first gear and trying to move it into 2nd or neutral.

I am thinking of changing the transmission fluid, but I am sure it wont help much.

Is this a clutch issue? Bad throw-out bearing? What else could it be?
 

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definitely something wrong there.

Is this happening with engine idling, and when pressing clutch in to shift...?

it sounds like your slave cylinder isn't releasing the clutch fully (dragging) and this will make it very difficult to shift from one position to another.

That symptom was turning up in earlier years due to incorrect grease on input shaft splines (or insufficient grease) and would make the clutch disc hang up on the shaft, making shift effort very high.

changing fluid in the transmission won't help. Since its not taking place in other gears 3rd / 4th / 5th / 6th, I'm suspecting that issue.

the other possibility are synchros, but to have 1st and Reverse both doing it, not as likely. Reverse doesn't get that much use, so to have issues with the synchros seems more remote
 

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I have a similar problem lets say if i come to a stop and im still in first, push the clutch to try to get to neutral and its “stuck” untill i yank it out. I found a little rpm helps get it out, or just going to neutral before i stop completely
 

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Definitely sounds like something with the clutch but just double clutch as in releasing and then push the clutch in again and then try it again, don't ever yank on a shifter.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #5
definitely something wrong there.

Is this happening with engine idling, and when pressing clutch in to shift...?

it sounds like your slave cylinder isn't releasing the clutch fully (dragging) and this will make it very difficult to shift from one position to another.

That symptom was turning up in earlier years due to incorrect grease on input shaft splines (or insufficient grease) and would make the clutch disc hang up on the shaft, making shift effort very high.

changing fluid in the transmission won't help. Since its not taking place in other gears 3rd / 4th / 5th / 6th, I'm suspecting that issue.

the other possibility are synchros, but to have 1st and Reverse both doing it, not as likely. Reverse doesn't get that much use, so to have issues with the synchros seems more remote
It happens during idle and low speed. Now that I recall it was happening whiles crawling around in traffic in other gears too. I am wondering if changing the slave cylinder would help or changing the clutch fluid?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Definitely sounds like something with the clutch but just double clutch as in releasing and then push the clutch in again and then try it again, don't ever yank on a shifter.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I have been yanking on the shifter, and it it clunks into the next gear...almost makes a noise like the trans wants to drop out.
 

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It happens during idle and low speed. Now that I recall it was happening whiles crawling around in traffic in other gears too. I am wondering if changing the slave cylinder would help or changing the clutch fluid?
those are symptoms of the clutch not releasing fully / dragging. You mention the gear clash (clunk) shifting into another gear, which confirms the transmission input shaft isn't spinning freely due to clutch not disengaging correctly.

Either way with slave cylinder replacement or cleaning and regreasing the input shaft splines, both require removing the transmission.

The hydraulic system is self bleeding; the hydraulic fluid is shared with the braking system, so there's really nothing wrong if the brakes are functioning properly.
 

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2020 Dodge Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack
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those are symptoms of the clutch not releasing fully / dragging. You mention the gear clash (clunk) shifting into another gear, which confirms the transmission input shaft isn't spinning freely due to clutch not disengaging correctly.

Either way with slave cylinder replacement or cleaning and regreasing the input shaft splines, both require removing the transmission.

The hydraulic system is self bleeding; the hydraulic fluid is shared with the braking system, so there's really nothing wrong if the brakes are functioning properly.

If the clutch hydraulic system shares fluid with the brake system my advice is to do a brake fluid flush and bleed and then if possible follow this with a clutch hydraulic system flush and bleed.


My Porsche Boxster's clutch shared fluid with the brake system and at some point manifested similar behavior as has been reported. It was hard to get the car moving from a stop smoothly no matter how much I focused on this. Shifts are crunchy.


The behavior of the clutch and transmission had totally become out of character. I at first suspected a bad clutch or even a transmission given the high miles (approx. 275K miles) even though I had the transmission fluid changed regularly.


Took the car in and the SA suggested a brake/clutch fluid flush and bleed first. He looked it up and the last one had been 2.5 years prior. Porsche calls for this to be done every 2 years and I had just lost track of time.


Anyhow, I had the fluid service done and the transformation was remarkable. The clutch engagement was once again very smooth and all the transmission shifting symptoms were gone.


The brakes felt the same after the fluid service as before -- they were ok before the fluid service -- but it was clear the brake/clutch hydraulic fluid was past its change by date by the way the clutch and transmission had been behaving.
 

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as @Rockster mentioned, I agree its a good practice to flush / bleed the hydraulic fluid in the braking system every two years.

Dodge doesn't mention this as part of regular, scheduled maintenance - but pretty much any European make (going back to the 60s) had this practice.

The main reason is any DOT 3 / DOT 4 type fluid is hygroscopic - it will absorp moisture from the atmosphere - which reduces the boiling point of the fluid.

another point is moisture in the fluid can corrode brake system parts - ABS pumps, valves, piston caliper bores...any metal parts that are in contact with the fluid.

Boiling point is important, in the case of hard braking or continuous braking (coming down a grade), the fluid will boil in extreme circumstances and the braking effort goes up significantly or a spongy pedal feel results.

In some cases, the pedal may travel much further towards the floor until the fluid cools down

In the case of the OP, a brake fluid replacement is a good idea, but if this doesn't remedy the shift quality / clutch issues, then its onto the working parts of the clutch system.

>it takes 200 pedal strokes to bleed the slave cylinder after it has been replaced or disconnected for any service that was require (replacing clutch master cylinder, removal of transmission, etc)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
How does one bleed the clutch hydraulic system aside form simply bleeding the brakes on this car?

Also I find that revving up the motor allows me to shift into gears when it is otherwise stuck. It is extremely hard to shift gears at idle or low RPM, especially as the car runs for a while.
 

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How does one bleed the clutch hydraulic system aside form simply bleeding the brakes on this car?

Also I find that revving up the motor allows me to shift into gears when it is otherwise stuck. It is extremely hard to shift gears at idle or low RPM, especially as the car runs for a while.
Don't know why revving the engine helps the shifting. What I had was a '96 Mustang that was a bit difficult getting onto 1st gear sometimes and what I found was putting the transmission in 2nd gear -- which never was difficult -- then letting out the clutch just a bit to just move the car a half a nudge I could then depress the clutch and shift from 2nd to 1st with no difficulty at all. As I remember the transmission always behaved this way. The transmission even though it was a manual Ford filled it with ATF so the transmission fluid was quite light. Maybe too light and this in some way played a role in the difficulty getting the transmission to shift into 1st gear.

But the Mustang was the only car to manifest any issues getting the transmission to move into 1st gear or any other gear for that matter.

If the brake and clutch hydraulic systems share fluid I would think it a good idea to first flush/bleed the brake system. This flush/bleed operation removes all the old fluid so just a relatively small amount needs to be bled from the clutch hydraulic system.

Even if the systems are separate both systems should be flushed and bled.

With my Boxster there was a bleed valve on the clutch slave cylinder.
 

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I had this problem on my RT. ended up taking it to the dealer while still under warranty and it was no grease on the input shaft. There was some rust on the shaft too which could be that there never was any grease in there.

The symptoms occurred mostly after warm up, although there were times when it was parked and I could almost not get it out of gear.

This is a receipt from another car which I used to discuss with the service manager when I took my car in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk IMG_2751.jpg
 
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I am finding it is very hard to change gears sometime on my 2015 M6 scatpack

For instance, if the car is parked in reverse, and I clutch in and attempt to put it into neutral I literally have to put most of my strength into yanking the shifter into neutral. Same goes for when in first gear and trying to move it into 2nd or neutral.

I am thinking of changing the transmission fluid, but I am sure it wont help much.

Is this a clutch issue? Bad throw-out bearing? What else could it be?
Mine does this when I park it. Doesn't do it unless the car is fully warmed up. Stop at a store or whatever, come back out and I can't get it out of gear. Usually first or reverse or even second if I'm on flat ground. I had the tranny pulled and had the service done to clean and re-lube the input shaft at my cost since the STAR case does not cover 2011 and newer. This seamed to cure the issue, but it didn't last long. For now I've given up on finding the cure. I just make sure I park it in whatever gear I'll want when I start it back up. Doesn't do it once I'm rolling.
 

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Mine does it too if I stop, clutch down, into first, switch off, foot off clutch and onto the parking brake, then foot off the foot brake.

The car rolls back/forward slightly as the parking brake loads up, seems to load the gears up, one would assume against the stopped engine, and that pressing the clutch would disengage and release it. It doesn't - it's quite a heave to get it out of gear.

If I make sure its in neutral, foot off the clutch, apply the parking brake, let it roll into the parking brake, then put it in gear, then it comes straight out when I go to restart later.

Never had another car do it - as I've always seemed to have lived on a hill, or had a sloping driveway, it's just second nature to leave the car gear - just a little interesting with the foot operated parking brake in this one to remember to switch off or have it in neutral when I go to apply the brake. Never had a car roll against the brake before either - it's as though there's something loose somewhere and it needs to load up as the car rolls into it - but I can#t see anything obvious.
 

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2 cents observation: Whether it's in the clutch or trans this has been an issue since day one with the manuals, the ones with zero problems consider yourself very lucky...gotta say though when the weirdness decides to manifest itself it's Effin scary especially when it happens during a left in a busy intersection!!! I've decided to try a A8 and will never look back, track mode is waaay to fun in a cat with the paddles..there's a roving issue with the +paddle down shifting when you want to up shift, but I am completely convinced that it only happens if you're driving like a grandma and not like you stole it..the ZF8HP90 is the best invention since sliced bread...in manual track mode that is
 

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Yes we get it...A8 is awesome...M6 sucks.

Despite the issues with the M6 shift quality (putting the right grease on the input shaft is a pita but an easy fix) one of it's advantages (at least for me) is tuning the PCM is greatly simplified.
 

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Mine does it too if I stop, clutch down, into first, switch off, foot off clutch and onto the parking brake, then foot off the foot brake.

The car rolls back/forward slightly as the parking brake loads up, seems to load the gears up, one would assume against the stopped engine, and that pressing the clutch would disengage and release it. It doesn't - it's quite a heave to get it out of gear.

If I make sure its in neutral, foot off the clutch, apply the parking brake, let it roll into the parking brake, then put it in gear, then it comes straight out when I go to restart later.

Never had another car do it - as I've always seemed to have lived on a hill, or had a sloping driveway, it's just second nature to leave the car gear - just a little interesting with the foot operated parking brake in this one to remember to switch off or have it in neutral when I go to apply the brake. Never had a car roll against the brake before either - it's as though there's something loose somewhere and it needs to load up as the car rolls into it - but I can#t see anything obvious.
The parking brake is a drum style setup (uses the inner "hat" of rear brake rotor) and it seems that when the vehicle's weight rolls against the energized brake, it engages the brake shoes more positively to the drum.

My 'Benz does the same thing (same exact design), so I'm accustomed to, apply brake (AT in neutral), then shift to park to avoid loading up against the parking pawl.

Both my Challengers are M6 so I put into neutral (foot off clutch), engage parking brake, let roll back, then shift into 1st or Reverse.

My '09 had the sticking clutch disc symptom and it was must to do the above, as time went by I had the procedure performed as my clutch would hang up in low rpm driving (~ 1,500 rpm) and was becoming a hassle. The spline cleaning / re-lube made it work better than ever.
 

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Feel slightly better to know there isn't anything about to fall off ;) I've owned cars with a similar brake arrangement (Vauxhall Omega (Cadillac Catera?) and Subaru Forester - neither seemed to move after brake application - hence worry something was loose somewhere.

I've never owned an automatic, only driven rental ones, but I've never come across a car that wouldn't release the loading in the box when the clutch was pressed. My trials car lives outside in all weathers all year round, and never has an issue with a sticking clutch, my 7 spends half the year garaged now, but still doesn't do it.

Looks like I'll be working out a way to lube the input shaft splines . . .
 

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Feel slightly better to know there isn't anything about to fall off ;) I've owned cars with a similar brake arrangement (Vauxhall Omega (Cadillac Catera?) and Subaru Forester - neither seemed to move after brake application - hence worry something was loose somewhere.

I've never owned an automatic, only driven rental ones, but I've never come across a car that wouldn't release the loading in the box when the clutch was pressed. My trials car lives outside in all weathers all year round, and never has an issue with a sticking clutch, my 7 spends half the year garaged now, but still doesn't do it.

Looks like I'll be working out a way to lube the input shaft splines . . .
Yeah, I'm 55 years old and have been driving, installing and working on standard drive trains since I was 15. This is weird behavior.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well the problem is still there after bleeding the brakes and running over two quarts of new brake fluid through the system. It gets a lot worse as the car warms up. The car just doesnt want to go into gear at low RPMS or at idle. It gets stuck in whatever gear its in unless I rev it up to get it out of gear. Very strange behavior and getting annoying.
 
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