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Discussion Starter #1
This option is available on the 2019 Challenger Scat Pack. Exactly what does this suspension do? Does it contribute to a smoother ride on bumpy roads? Or does it stiffen up the ride more for better handling so that you will feel every imperfection in the road which will contribute to a bumpy ride?:scratchhead:
 

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It does both, smooth when you want it and firm for handling in Sport and very stiff in Track with the expected reduction in ride quality, of course you will feel more bumps in Sport or Track but even in Street it handles fine as the shocks will adapt to conditions.

Nothing like being able to adjust your ride so this option is a must have imho.


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On my sp wb the ride goes from 3/4 ton pickup to dump truck very quickly

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So the WB is stiffer? I've yet to ride in one, what's your pressures set at? Mine with 275s is very smooth in default.


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So the WB is stiffer? I've yet to ride in one, what's your pressures set at? Mine with 275s is very smooth in default.


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WB Scat Packs have the highest spring rates of all the trims - there was an FCA media release in a Motor Trend article:

Excerpt:

"Especially the Scat Pack Widebody.

"This started out as a project to just put the Widebody package on the Scat Pack, but then we thought, 'Why don't we try to go a bit further,'" explains SRT vehicle dynamics chief Erich Heuschele.
His team ended up with a completely new spring/damping/roll-stiffness setup. At 359 lb/in, these are the stiffest front springs on any Challenger, up from 313 on the Hellcats and 284 on the base Scat Pack.

Its rear springs are shared with the Hellcats. The anti-roll bars are stiffened by increasing their diameters from 32 to 34mm in front and from 19 to 22 in back relative to base Scat Packs.
These hollow bars are now the same diameter as the Hellcat's solid ones. New Bilstein three-mode adjustable shocks are borrowed from the Hellcats but are uniquely tuned to match this spring/bar setup, the weight of the lighter naturally aspirated engine, and to work with the big 305/35ZR20 Pirelli P Zero three-season (or P Zero Nero all-season) tires.

Note that by contrast, the Redeye Widebody is just a Widebody package on a Redeye with no fundamental tuning changes."


Article:
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/dodge/challenger/2019/2019-dodge-challenger-rt-scat-pack-392-widebody-hellcat-redeye-first-drive-review/
 

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It sounds like the SP wide body would have the advantage of the suspension tuning and lighter curb weight (over the Hellcat) to take on the corners and road courses.

Now swap over the former '15 - '18 Hellcat hood and put a Shaker setup on it...

I'm fine with the 'Cat nose, but the vented hood that comes on the '19s really doesn't add much functionality - performance wise, IMO
 

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So the WB is stiffer? I've yet to ride in one, what's your pressures set at? Mine with 275s is very smooth in default.


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Oh yes... But so much fun. 32 front and rear.

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Discussion Starter #9
SO the wide body package is suppose to improve the handling of the Challenger on the track. As far a s regular street driving it is not going to make the car ride any smoother. In fact with those bigger wider tires it might make the ride even bumpier and if ground is wet more chances of hydro planning?.
 

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SO the wide body package is suppose to improve the handling of the Challenger on the track. As far a s regular street driving it is not going to make the car ride any smoother. In fact with those bigger wider tires it might make the ride even bumpier and if ground is wet more chances of hydro planning?.
hydroplaning occurs with narrow width or wider tires - it comes down to having the proper tread depth and how deep the water (poorly draining roads for example).

once a tire gets to 6/32" of tread depth hydroplaning at higher speeds can occur.

4/32" it would happen much more readily

[2/32" is minimum tread depth, but frankly, even dry braking distance is greatly compromised with that little tread remaining]
 

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Yes, but physics give the narrower tire a great advantage in resisting hydroplaning.
Agree. I remember when the IROC-Z first came out in 85 and it had 245/50-16s Goodyears and for the time the widest tires ever on a Camaro and there were huge hydroplaning issues with that car. A lot due to the tread I'm sure but some due just to the width and light back end.


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I'm thinking that in order to notice the hydroplaning difference a 275mm tire has over a 305 mm tire (Tire type and tread depth being equal), you would have to be finding some very deep puddles on a regular basis. Having a new tire with good tread depth will make a much more significant difference. I bet even going from one brand to another and just having a different tread design could make a bigger difference than 30 mm of section width.

Of course, I have no proof one way or the other. Feel free to debate, but that's just my input. A 275 mm tire isn't exactly skinny to begin with.
 

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Unless I'm overlooking something, a 10% wider tire has to displace 10% more water.
That would make a 305 10% more prone to hydroplaning than a 275, all else being equal.
 

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There is more to it than just being 10% wider though. Sure it will make some difference but it's just one of many variables. The tread could (And often does) have more void area to compensate for that. When you get a tire of the same brand and model, and get it in a wider size, is that extra width entirely in rubber contact patch contacting the road? Not always. It could be that the tread blocks are farther apart, or an extra row added in some size ranges, or however the tire company wants to do it. And when you're comparing one model of tire to another like we are in this case (Widebodies use different versions of the Pirellis), it really gets hard to tell.

I don't doubt that there is a difference in hydroplaning resistance, I just think it's not significant enough to worry about.
 

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Unless I'm overlooking something, a 10% wider tire has to displace 10% more water.
That would make a 305 10% more prone to hydroplaning than a 275, all else being equal.

Lots of Wide Body Challengers up here with the 305 tires are driven in the rain and snow and they have no problem whatsoever with traction or hydroplaning.
 

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There is more to it than just being 10% wider though. Sure it will make some difference but it's just one of many variables. The tread could (And often does) have more void area to compensate for that. When you get a tire of the same brand and model, and get it in a wider size, is that extra width entirely in rubber contact patch contacting the road? Not always. It could be that the tread blocks are farther apart, or an extra row added in some size ranges, or however the tire company wants to do it.
Like I said, "all things being equal...".

But there's no getting around that a 10% wider tire has to displace 10% more water. How, or if, it does it obviously depends on a whole lot of factors.
 

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Lots of Wide Body Challengers up here with the 305 tires are driven in the rain and snow and they have no problem whatsoever with traction or hydroplaning.
Funny, you must have better snow than we do, as I had a heck of a time getting back up the very mild slope to the garage in just an inch or so of snow. With 275s.

And on hard packed snow (now the depth isn't a factor) I had to take a 300-foot run to get out on the road. Also just a very mild slope.
But that's with UHP Summer tires. Obviously having some sort of all-season tread would make a world of difference.

Not about to run that kind of tire, though, as I value the better traction on dry pavement. Besides, with only 4.5 inches of ground clearance and a low hanging front splitter, my Challenger isn't the best in snow no matter what kind of tires are on it.
 

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Like I said, "all things being equal...".

But there's no getting around that a 10% wider tire has to displace 10% more water. How, or if, it does it obviously depends on a whole lot of factors.
But rarely is everything equal. Tires are classified by category, not by their size, for the types of driving conditions they're designed for.

A Max performance summer like the Pirelli P Zero is intended to handle rain as well as dry roads, so it would be designed to be consistent in those abilities across it's size range. Altering the rubber contact to void ratio would likely alter it's characteristics drastic enough to put it into more of a track tire category. That's not what Dodge is specifying for an OEM tire. If the tire in question had any significant reduction in it's ability to handle rain, they would say so in the owner's manual or some statement, as they don't want lawsuits. That's why it's stated all over to not use these tires in snow. It won't work well, regardless of width.

So I still believe that the type of tires you have, and the condition of them, will play a much larger role in hydroplaning resistance than the section width.
 

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But rarely is everything equal. Tires are classified by category, not by their size, for the types of driving conditions they're designed for.

So I still believe that the type of tires you have, and the condition of them, will play a much larger role in hydroplaning resistance than the section width.
That is true. Having done lots and lots of tire testing I am aware of the differences in tires, both the obvious and subtle ones. For example, there is no way the rear tires on my tractor would hydroplane, even though they are much wider than a 305...if somehow it could be made to go fast.
 
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