[sunger]

Does anyone have any information/thoughts about the possibility of a 426 challenger (or even cuda) in the 2012 lineup?
I'm guessing the Dodge folks will wait until the 2013 to unleash the 426, but again, the emission requirements are getting tougher and tougher.
I'm up for a new ride in October of this year, and I'm considering the mustang, corvette, and the challenger. I hear things about the mustang kicking the hp up again, and the corvette is always a class act. The challenger made a great move this year with the 392 also. I figure I'll have a good choice of a discounted price on the 2011's, or be able to get one of the last true 2012 muscle cars before the EPA kills them off.

 

[huggytree]

RS said no major changes for 2012, but then again he said no V10 either and that suddenly happened...

why would they spend all the time on the 392 just to change it in a year...i think were w/ the 392 for a while....maybe a 426 Cuda before its all over

 

[SPP R/T]

I was at a Mopar meeting a few weeks back and asked the Chrysler rep there about a 426 hemi or a convertabile in the works and he said negative.MOPARS RULE!!!Wolffy:smokin:

 

[bacdocmiller]

Does anyone have any information/thoughts about the possibility of a 426 challenger (or even cuda) in the 2012 lineup?
I'm guessing the Dodge folks will wait until the 2013 to unleash the 426, but again, the emission requirements are getting tougher and tougher.
I'm up for a new ride in October of this year, and I'm considering the mustang, corvette, and the challenger. I hear things about the mustang kicking the hp up again, and the corvette is always a class act. The challenger made a great move this year with the 392 also. I figure I'll have a good choice of a discounted price on the 2011's, or be able to get one of the last true 2012 muscle cars before the EPA kills them off.

I have it on excellent authority through a Chrysler engineer (who will remain nameless for obvious reasons) that the aluminum block 426 motor is a definite "GO " for the Challenger before c.y. 2014. A supercharged 392 is also being looked at closely, due to the Shelby Mustang and the upcoming ZL 1 Camaro. They are not going to allow Ford and GM to just walk away with all the bragging rights in this market segment, especially with the upcoming 2015 EPA mandates for CAFE, and the probable sea change that will result in that segment after that. Could be a repeat of the '70/'71 automotive era where priorites changed direction and we all know where that lead to for years to come.

 

[HexiumVII]

I'll pass on the 426 for 2012 and go straight for the 440 in 2013.

 

[HemiFan]

440 - now that would be something to brag about, especially if it was an NA engine. Who cares how fast it is - it would have a 440! That just sounds incredibly cool. The looks of the modern Challenger with a 440...no way to top the cool factor of that combo IMO. No idea how practical from a marketing or production perspective that would be to do - but it would definitely be a modern "legend." What's that by comparison to the 6.1 and 392...like 550 HP or something stock at least? OK, back to reality...

 

[Ironside]

If 2015 is really the end for these big muscle cars I'm sure glad I got into one before the hippies ruin the automotive industry for good!

I have a feeling I'll be telling my future kids about my 6.1L that I had "waaay back in 2010"

LoL... Kinda funny but kinda sad. :disgust:

 

[2ndgen]

440 - now that would be something to brag about, especially if it was an NA engine. Who cares how fast it is - it would have a 440! That just sounds incredibly cool. The looks of the modern Challenger with a 440...no way to top the cool factor of that combo IMO. No idea how practical from a marketing or production perspective that would be to do - but it would definitely be a modern "legend." What's that by comparison to the 6.1 and 392...like 550 HP or something stock at least? OK, back to reality...

Well, the new gen III 426 crate hemi already makes 540HP, so 550-560HP is probably right on the money for a gen III 440.

 

[2ndgen]

I have it on excellent authority through a Chrysler engineer (who will remain nameless for obvious reasons) that the aluminum block 426 motor is a definite "GO " for the Challenger before c.y. 2014. A supercharged 392 is also being looked at closely, due to the Shelby Mustang and the upcoming ZL 1 Camaro. They are not going to allow Ford and GM to just walk away with all the bragging rights in this market segment, especially with the upcoming 2015 EPA mandates for CAFE, and the probable sea change that will result in that segment after that. Could be a repeat of the '70/'71 automotive era where priorites changed direction and we all know where that lead to for years to come.

Very interesting. So, where RS (extremely reliable) says that there are definitely no major changes occuring for MY 2012 (which makes sense--they just barely finished the major changes for 2011--so let them ride for a bit), that leaves MY 2013 as the earliest to see something major. Where the future beyond MY 2014 has yet to be decided, and it wouldn't make sense to do major changes in the last year of production, that makes it sound like if something's going to happen it will be either for MY 2013 or never (unless they decide for certain to continue past 2014).

Wouldn't that be something if they put the 392 into the R/T and put a Turbo 426 in the SRT8? (They reported that they have already tested the new 426 with a turbo set up as part of their durability testing...)

There's also the talk of putting a 3.0L twin turbo pentastar into "an SRT mid-sized car". There's no way they'd do that to the Challenger, is there?? Even at 420HP, which could potentially replace the 5.7L in the R/T, it's still no match for the 392. Maybe the Charger--but then you're complicating that line since it's already getting the 392 in SRT8 trim.

3.0L twin turbo SRT Avenger perhaps? Now that would make for a fun little car. Hell, put it in the Caravan--SRT Caravan with some real power--I'll bet lots of family guys would love it.

 

[homerzeppelin]

Very interesting. So, where RS (extremely reliable) says that there are definitely no major changes occuring for MY 2012 (which makes sense--they just barely finished the major changes for 2011--so let them ride for a bit), that leaves MY 2013 as the earliest to see something major. Where the future beyond MY 2014 has yet to be decided, and it wouldn't make sense to do major changes in the last year of production, that makes it sound like if something's going to happen it will be either for MY 2013 or never (unless they decide for certain to continue past 2014).

Wouldn't that be something if they put the 392 into the R/T and put a Turbo 426 in the SRT8? (They reported that they have already tested the new 426 with a turbo set up as part of their durability testing...)

There's also the talk of putting a 3.0L twin turbo pentastar into "an SRT mid-sized car". There's no way they'd do that to the Challenger, is there?? Even at 420HP, which could potentially replace the 5.7L in the R/T, it's still no match for the 392. Maybe the Charger--but then you're complicating that line since it's already getting the 392 in SRT8 trim.

3.0L twin turbo SRT Avenger perhaps? Now that would make for a fun little car. Hell, put it in the Caravan--SRT Caravan with some real power--I'll bet lots of family guys would love it.

The avenger and 200 are supposed to be replaced (they were only a "major refresh" that had to be rushed anyways).

I would guess the SRT6 would occur in its replacement. Let's just hope that it has an all wheel drive option!

 

[rayzazoo]

So speculatively speaking:

392 History:
2006 SEMA - Debut - 392 V8 Engine Crate Concept 525 hp / 510 tq
2010 SEMA - Release - 392 N/A V8 Challenger IE 470 hp / 470 tq

V10 History:
2008 SEMA - Debut - 512 V10 Challenger Concept 600 hp / 560 tq
2010 SEMA - Release - 512 V10 Challenger Drag Pak 600 hp / 560 tq

426 History:
2009 SEMA - Debut 426 V8 Super Stock Concept Car 556 hp / 540 tq
2010 PRS - Debut - 426 Aluminum V8 Crate Engine 540 hp / 530 tq

So let's look at what the competition has been doing.

2011 392 - 6.4L N/A 470 hp / 470 tq
2012 ZL1 Camaro - 6.2L Supercharged 550 hp / 550 tq
2013 Shelby GT500 - 5.8L Aluminum Supercharged 600+ hp projected

Dodge has already proven that they can get the Challenger to be a 600+hp monster in Drag Pack form, probably where it should be; on the track not on the street. Ford is now catching up by methods of supercharging to meet up with what Dodge has accomplished, however, they are more targeted for autocross rather than 1/4mi races.

Speculation
Mopar408's 392 w Maggie Build - 6.4L 630 rwhp / 645 rwtq
2010 SEMA - Edelbrock debuts Hemi Supercharger Edelbrock’s E-Force Boosts New HEMI Horsepower - StreetLegalTV.com

So we look at the competition flying away with Supercharged engines and Dodge/Mopar sticking with Naturally Aspirated solutions.

The aftermarket for Dodge/Jeep have proven that a 392, 426 and 440 Hemi are possible solutions (forged block, upgraded internals) along with a supercharger.

So we look at now, would a 426 be reasonable with 540 hp / 530 tq or would Dodge look at the possibility of supercharging the 392 that has the capability of 600+hp. From a cost/market standpoint, the supercharging route seems the better way to go. A $6000-7000 part upgrade with tuning from factory to put the current 392 in the $54000 range. The output is much better than the 426 and the transmission capability is already backed by the Tremec 6-speed. Internals would need to be upgraded. From an engine longetivity standpoint, the 392 would be the better option. Dodge could probably go the supercharger route, blow the competition out of the water, but in the same manner, also move away from their long tradition of naturally aspirated engines. As far as a 600+hp vehicle, Dodge already has the capability of the 512 V10 Drag pack.

Ugh, need a break.

In all, however, if the target market for Dodge is Camaro/Mustang sales, well, they look to get an engine that is comparatively close or better than the competition. Based on what Dodge has done so far, it seems like Dodge wants to keep their "muscle" engines naturally aspirated. So, the 426 seems like the viable option. Well, now we position the problem of getting it street legal, meeting fuel economy standards and thusforth.

So the 426....
http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/classic-muscle-cars/1964-dodge-426-hemi.htm
There's the history, 1964 is the debut originally. So now lets look at this from a marketing perspective. 2014 is exactly the 50th anniversary of the legendary 426. It is possible that it can meet within the street legal standards. It'll probably have to be designed as such like the 392 to be somewhat fuel saver efficient; maybe only in 6-speed form could this be accomplished. It maintains that it's naturally aspirated. It brings back the iconic legendary hemi that Mopar fans have known to love. It gets under the gun from the 2015 end cap of the federal government stepping in on American capitalism. So, by 2015, history repeats itself just like from 1970-75.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine
If you read, the first debut of the 426 was in NASCAR in 1960 and then it got featured for release in 1964. Ironic, 2010, 426 is debuted in crate form..... 2014....?!?!?!?!?!

Conclusion
I am going to venture to say that 2013-2014 is looking like a very good year to attend SEMA and see a "Legend" reborn. I'd speculate to say that in 2013-2014 SEMA, Dodge will release a 426 Aluminum, 6-speed only, 50th Anniversary Special Edition.

Even so, worst case is that Dodge doesn't release a 426 from the factory and special edition. If so, then I'll just do my own 50th Anniversary special edition, all aluminum, 426 in 2014 and make my own commemoration to Dodge's iconic history. A TorRed 426 Barracuda would be nice.

 

[HemiDave1399]

So speculatively speaking:

392 History:
2006 SEMA - Debut - 392 V8 Engine Crate Concept 525 hp / 510 tq
2010 SEMA - Release - 392 N/A V8 Challenger IE 470 hp / 470 tq

V10 History:
2008 SEMA - Debut - 512 V10 Challenger Concept 600 hp / 560 tq
2010 SEMA - Release - 512 V10 Challenger Drag Pak 600 hp / 560 tq

426 History:
2010 PRS - Debut - 426 Aluminum V8 Crate Engine 540 hp / 530 tq
Unknown


So let's look at what the competition has been doing.

2011 392 - 6.4L N/A 470 hp / 470 tq
2012 ZL1 Camaro - 6.2L Supercharged 550 hp / 550 tq
2013 Shelby GT500 - 5.8L Aluminum Supercharged 600+ hp projected

Dodge has already proven that they can get the Challenger to be a 600+hp monster in Drag Pack form, probably where it should be; on the track not on the street. Ford is now catching up by methods of supercharging to meet up with what Dodge has accomplished, however, they are more targeted for autocross rather than 1/4mi races.

Speculation
Mopar408's 392 w Maggie Build - 6.4L 630 rwhp / 645 rwtq
2010 SEMA - Edelbrock debuts Hemi Supercharger Edelbrock’s E-Force Boosts New HEMI Horsepower - StreetLegalTV.com

So we look at the competition flying away with Supercharged engines and Dodge/Mopar sticking with Naturally Aspirated solutions.

The aftermarket for Dodge/Jeep have proven that a 392, 426 and 440 Hemi are possible solutions (forged block, upgraded internals) along with a supercharger.

So we look at now, would a 426 be reasonable with 540 hp / 530 tq or would Dodge look at the possibility of supercharging the 392 that has the capability of 600+hp. From a cost/market standpoint, the supercharging route seems the better way to go. A $6000-7000 part upgrade with tuning from factory to put the current 392 in the $54000 range. The output is much better than the 426 and the transmission capability is already backed by the Tremec 6-speed. Internals would need to be upgraded. From an engine longetivity standpoint, the 392 would be the better option. Dodge could probably go the supercharger route, blow the competition out of the water, but in the same manner, also move away from their long tradition of naturally aspirated engines. As far as a 426 or 440, Dodge already has the capability of the 512 V10 Drag pack.

Ugh, need a break.

In all, however, if the target market for Dodge is Camaro/Mustang sells, well, they look to get an engine that is comparatively close or better than the competition. Based on what Dodge has done so far, it seems like Dodge wants to keep their "muscle" engines naturally aspirated. So, the 426 seems like the viable option. Well, now we position the problem of getting it street legal, meeting fuel economy standards and thusforth.

So the 426....
HowStuffWorks "1964 Dodge 426 Hemi: A Profile of a Muscle Car"
There's the history, 1964 is the debut originally. So now lets look at this from a marketing perspective. 2014 is exactly the 50th anniversary of the legendary 426. It is possible that it can meet within the street legal standards. It'll probably have to be designed as such like the 392 to be somewhat fuel saver efficient. It maintains that it's naturally aspirated. It brings back the iconic legendary hemi that Mopar fans have known to love. It gets under the gun from the 2015 end cap of the federal government stepping in on American capitalism. So, by 2015, history repeats itself just like from 1970-75.

I am going to venture to say that 2014 is looking like a very good year to attend SEMA and see a "Legend" reborn. Worst case is that Dodge doesn't release a 426 from the factory and special edition the heck out of it. If so, then I'll just do my own 50th Anniversary special edition, all aluminum, 426.

That was a great read.....thanks! :bigthumb:

 

[desertsoldier22]

I have heard from a number of sources of a possible Pentastar 4.8-5.2l V-8 as a replacement for the Hemi post-2015. Upcoming CAFE standards would require a more efficient overhead cam design, combine this with Multi-air and direct injection 450hp+ out of this setup is definitely possible.

The next generation Avenger will be an Alfa Romeo 159 based sedan. The 159 has been heralded as one of Alfa's great passenger cars and would be huge step up from current design. The next generation platform can accommodate AWD and advance suspension designs ala Audi.

 

[raVenX]

The 392 (6.4L) gets better gas mileage than the 6.1L. So long as any new engine increases MPG's, then the sky is the limit with regard to cubic inches and horsepower.

I spoke with a Chrysler executive not long ago and asked about a Challenger convertible. He said they were gauging public interest. So if you truly want a convertible, write to Chrysler and ask for one.