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Challenger wins again... numbers from mustang6g.com

Mustang August 2017 Delivery (sales): 5535 -33% (Pr Ye)
Camaro August 2017 Deliveries (actual sales): 5017 -11% (Pr Ye)
Challenger August 2017 Delivery (sales): 6253 19% (Pr Ye)

The Mustang and Camaro guys are scratching their heads and trying to come up with a reason why the Challenger continues to increase sales on an "old" platform. With the '18 Mustang being a refresh, it will be interesting to see if they retake the sale lead. Camaro is in a death spiral, I think.
 

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All hail the Challengers!

I think it's a simple concept of don't fix what ain't broken.

Dodge sticks with a same platform for 10 years while Ford and Chevrolet kept changing and tweaking their products every few years.. It shows.

Dodge also came up with the great advertises for their products. When was the last time you see a Chevrolet ad for the Camaro??? I seriously cannot recall it.

We have great trims, an opportunity to drive a car with the shaker, many great high impact colors to choose from, and an opportunity to own and to drive the world's one and only muscle car.

Ford and Chevrolet cannot match what Dodge have to offer.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Yeah, Dodge's Muscle Car ads are second to none. Unapologetic. I like it.
 

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Challenger wins again... numbers from mustang6g.com

Mustang August 2017 Delivery (sales): 5535 -33% (Pr Ye)
Camaro August 2017 Deliveries (actual sales): 5017 -11% (Pr Ye)
Challenger August 2017 Delivery (sales): 6253 19% (Pr Ye)

The Mustang and Camaro guys are scratching their heads and trying to come up with a reason why the Challenger continues to increase sales on an "old" platform. With the '18 Mustang being a refresh, it will be interesting to see if they retake the sale lead. Camaro is in a death spiral, I think.

Don't shoot the messenger. But the numbers tell a different story when you factor in retail vs fleet sales. See below.

Camaro is getting a higher average transaction price(ATP) & only 151 to fleet sales(think rental cars).
While the Challenger ran 2314 to fleet sales.
Mustang 1716 to fleet sales.

Defining the numbers does make a difference.

This was pulled from the Camaro 6 forum. Post 22 I think.

Retail ATP's August 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,019
Challenger: $36,427
Mustang: $34,365

Retail Sales August 2017
Camaro: 4,866
Challenger: 3,939
Mustang: 3,819

Retail ATP's YTD 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,943
Challenger: $37,296
Mustang: $35,847

Retail Sales YTD 2017
Camaro: 43,130
Mustang: 38,754
Challenger: 31,427

August 2017 Camaro Sales Figures (and vs. Mustang & Challenger) - Page 2 - CAMARO6
 

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When the Challenger first came out I remember reading how Dodge would be happy if they could hit about 30K in sales and the niche model was generally expected to last about five years. Well we are well beyond those goals and the Challenger continues to gain momentum, with new performance packages and classic styling. I think it's continued success has much to do with it being the last true retro muscle car, the other two have pretty much moved on from the retro look.
 

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Don't shoot the messenger. But the numbers tell a different story when you factor in retail vs fleet sales. See below.

Camaro is getting a higher average transaction price(ATP) & only 151 to fleet sales(think rental cars).
While the Challenger ran 2314 to fleet sales.
Mustang 1716 to fleet sales.

Defining the numbers does make a difference.

This was pulled from the Camaro 6 forum. Post 22 I think.

Retail ATP's August 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,019
Challenger: $36,427
Mustang: $34,365

Retail Sales August 2017
Camaro: 4,866
Challenger: 3,939
Mustang: 3,819

Retail ATP's YTD 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,943
Challenger: $37,296
Mustang: $35,847

Retail Sales YTD 2017
Camaro: 43,130
Mustang: 38,754
Challenger: 31,427

August 2017 Camaro Sales Figures (and vs. Mustang & Challenger) - Page 2 - CAMARO6
Honestly who cares where the cars end up as long as there is demand and dollars being exchanged? Retail, fleet... there is obviously a big demand for the Challenger. I don't need to reference a biased Camaro fan site for that; any more than a Camaro fan would be looking here for information that benefits them. The most impressive numbers are those that reflect the continued sales growth for a car that is basically unchanged since 2008. Atta boy Dodge!
 
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Honestly who cares where the cars end up as long as there is demand and dollars being exchanged? Retail, fleet... there is obviously a big demand for the Challenger. I don't need to reference a biased Camaro fan site for that; any more than a Camaro fan would be looking here for information that benefits them. The most impressive numbers are those that reflect the continued sales growth for a car that is basically unchanged since 2008. Atta boy Dodge!
I agree, plus more overall sales means more aftermarket support, more parts availability, more public exposure and a growing following well into the future. Glad to see the Challenger doing so well, congratulations to Dodge are definitely in order. :thumbsup::icon_cheers:
 

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Honestly who cares where the cars end up as long as there is demand and dollars being exchanged? Retail, fleet... there is obviously a big demand for the Challenger. I don't need to reference a biased Camaro fan site for that; any more than a Camaro fan would be looking here for information that benefits them. The most impressive numbers are those that reflect the continued sales growth for a car that is basically unchanged since 2008. Atta boy Dodge!
Understand your point, but that is exactly part of the problem with how GM, Chrysler & Ford got into trouble years ago. They were all dumping inventory onto fleet sales & that drops resale/lease values.
GM is actively cutting fleet sales across the board & has been the past couple of years. However the stigma of how they use to do things still follows, for example cars like their Malibu & Impala. GM has went out of their way in certain years to build fleet only models to prevent the higher depreciation such as extending the previous body style Impala & Chevrolet Captiva. Though do not think they found much success with that either.
Fleet/rental car sales are not a profitable venture long term, particularly when you start getting above 25/30% of production. They are a heavily discounted inventory dump that keeps the production plants flowing, nothing more.

I like the Challenger & the Charger for that matter. Not bashing the cars at all. But would bet money FCA would trade their current mix of retail/fleet sales numbers for a higher percentage of more profitable retail sales.
 

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Understand your point, but that is exactly part of the problem with how GM, Chrysler & Ford got into trouble years ago. They were all dumping inventory onto fleet sales & that drops resale/lease values.
GM is actively cutting fleet sales across the board & has been the past couple of years. However the stigma of how they use to do things still follows, for example cars like their Malibu & Impala. GM has went out of their way in certain years to build fleet only models to prevent the higher depreciation such as extending the previous body style Impala & Chevrolet Captiva. Though do not think they found much success with that either.
Fleet/rental car sales are not a profitable venture long term, particularly when you start getting above 25/30% of production. They are a heavily discounted inventory dump that keeps the production plants flowing, nothing more.

I like the Challenger & the Charger for that matter. Not bashing the cars at all. But would bet money FCA would trade their current mix of retail/fleet sales numbers for a higher percentage of more profitable retail sales.
That's probably true. In terms of depreciating value, the Challenger holds its value better than both Camaro and Mustang. I still think the most telling statistic is that the modern Challenger has steadily grown in sales since its 2008 introduction.
 

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Remove the number of convertible Mustangs and Camaros that have sold from the equation and it makes the Challenger numbers even more impressive.
 

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Well, the Mustang and the Camaro are crap vehicles. Neither have an resemblance to their origins, both suffer from comfortability and pound for pound lack in power.
 

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Ironically, the Mustang and Camaro are now designed to please 'global thinking easily offended focus groups' and not the typical person who would actually consider buying one. The Camaro (to me) is just ugly and needs a complete redo to look good. I also think while the Mustang is good looking in general, Ford hurt it when they gave it that corporate front look that makes people think "Fusion". The other thing that helped the Challenger with Chevy guys, is that it sort of looks like a cross between a vintage Cuda and Challenger, which were swipes back in the day of the general lines of the 67-69 Camaro. This makes it very enticing to Chevy fans who are disapointed with the current Camaro's 'robotic' looks.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, the Mustang and the Camaro are crap vehicles. Neither have an resemblance to their origins, both suffer from comfortability and pound for pound lack in power.
I have to disagree with you here. The Mustang GT is still the best bang for your buck car out there. A base GT vs a base R/T is not even a race- in a straight line or on a road course. The Challenger is definitely a more comfortable car but it is also 500lbs heavier, much longer wheelbase, etc. I'm not sure that Mustang and Challenger are even going after the same demographic.
 

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I have to disagree with you here. The Mustang GT is still the best bang for your buck car out there. A base GT vs a base R/T is not even a race- in a straight line or on a road course. The Challenger is definitely a more comfortable car but it is also 500lbs heavier, much longer wheelbase, etc. I'm not sure that Mustang and Challenger are even going after the same demographic.
You pretty much nailed it.

Every car/trim can be considered the best bang for their buck by every driver, yet it comes to what they want in a car before they open their wallet.

While you pointed out the Mustang GT may be faster, lighter, yet smaller than an R/T, yet an R/T driver may not care about them. He may want a more comfortable, roomy, retro muscle car appearance, and heavier car at the roughly same MSRP. At this moment Ford still can't match what Dodge has to offer in a muscle car like the Challengers as I've mentioned in my previous post.

Personally, I think the Scat Pack is the best bang for your buck car out there. >:)
 

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I have to disagree with you here. The Mustang GT is still the best bang for your buck car out there. A base GT vs a base R/T is not even a race- in a straight line or on a road course. The Challenger is definitely a more comfortable car but it is also 500lbs heavier, much longer wheelbase, etc. I'm not sure that Mustang and Challenger are even going after the same demographic.


You're so right...The Mustang is a secretaries car... :lol:
 

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My '16 SP is a great looking, comfortable cruiser that's relatively quick and handles/stops decently. Reminds me of the '68 GTO I owned many years ago in terms of style, room, and big-block high-torque power. My '14 Mustang GT is quicker (lightly modded and 11.50's in the 1/4 mile) and has good ergonomics. I love both cars for slightly different reasons.

I can't stand the '15-'17 Mustang's front end styling and lack of interior space. I want to warm up to the '18 Mustang and hope its sales pick up (I work at a Ford dealership), but it's gonna need something special & affordable beyond the GT (i.e. Bullitt or Mach 1) to wow me. I've owned 8 Mustangs and feel Ford missed the mark with the '15-'17 Mustangs (much like they did with the '94-'98 models, IMO).

All of the current "pony" cars are quick, each handles/stops well, etc. All are affordable. The Dodge is bold and true to its heritage. The Mustang sold out to please the world market (even the red, white, and blue striped emblems are gone since going global!) while abandoning the Mustang faithful. Camaro is a great performer in a crappy package. It's no surprise that the Challenger is outselling them both!
 
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IMO the Mustang/Camero buyers aren't even in the same potential buyer pool as the Challenger buyers anymore. In the last few years Mustang and Camero have become primarily a target for "sports car" enthusiasts. Challenger is the last remaining "muscle car" of the modern muscle car era (approx 2005 to now).

Which is probably a big reason it's doing well. Anyone who prefers the look of classic American muscle has only one real place to go over the last few years.
 

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Although I haven't driven the latest iteration of the Mustang, I have driven the previous body style as my oldest son owns one. Those whom I know and trust tell me the newest 'Stang is heavier and handles worse than the generation before it. That previous generation is a pig. It rides like a long truck, craftsmanship is poor, and the power isn't all its cracked up to be. I know from experience. In addition, when I was the proud owner of a '10 R/T I out ran a couple 5.slows. Granted I had a Predator canned tune installed, but I also out weighted the Mustang (not only in curb weight but I also had a passenger at the time) which I believe in rough calculations evens the playing field. And, I was a lifelong Mustang guy until Ford screwed up the body style several years ago. I know, I know, each to their own and I get it. But from a life time of being a car guy having owned a number of muscle and sports cars, I am proudly driving the car that I convinced is the best of its class. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Although I haven't driven the latest iteration of the Mustang, I have driven the previous body style as my oldest son owns one. Those whom I know and trust tell me the newest 'Stang is heavier and handles worse than the generation before it. That previous generation is a pig. It rides like a long truck, craftsmanship is poor, and the power isn't all its cracked up to be. I know from experience. In addition, when I was the proud owner of a '10 R/T I out ran a couple 5.slows. Granted I had a Predator canned tune installed, but I also out weighted the Mustang (not only in curb weight but I also had a passenger at the time) which I believe in rough calculations evens the playing field. And, I was a lifelong Mustang guy until Ford screwed up the body style several years ago. I know, I know, each to their own and I get it. But from a life time of being a car guy having owned a number of muscle and sports cars, I am proudly driving the car that I convinced is the best of its class. :)
If you beat a current 5.0 Mustang (435HP) with a '10 R/T, the Mustang driver wasn't even trying. Or didn't know how to try... The 18 Mustang will have 460HP from what I read and the R/T will still be at 375. But speed isn't everything unless you take it to the track. Challenger is definitely more comfortable- which is a major reason I bought mine but if I was buying a car for track days, it wouldn't be a Challenger. I'd be willing to bet the average age of Challenger owners is quite a bit higher than Mustang or Camaro, though. That would be an interesting stat. I do know Harley is in trouble because of their aging demographic. Sales have been down 5% for each of the past 3 years. Challenger has been holding its own but as someone pointed out, lots of them are going to rental fleets.
 

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...when I was the proud owner of a '10 R/T I out ran a couple 5.slows...
I believe I am unbiased as I own a 5.0L and a Challenger, so I'm gonna say this nicely and respectfully. You didn't outrun 5.0's with your tuned '10 R/T unless a) the other driver didn't know you were "racing" them, b) the other driver couldn't drive worth a dang, and/or c) the Mustang you were racing was an EcoBoost or V6 instead of a 5.0L.

I've been drag racing at our local tracks for 35 years. I've made thousands of passes down the strip over those 35 years in a variety of brands of cars that I've owned during that time (GM, Mopar, and Ford). I've made over 300 passes down the strip in my '14 GT. I keenly watch how other cars perform stock & modded while I'm at the track. And, I subscribe to the major car mags and read the test results of their acceleration runs. I believe I'm very well informed.

The Mustang vs Challenger drag racing hierarchy is simple: Demon > HC > GT500/GT350 > 6.4L Hemi > 5.0L > 5.7L Hemi > EcoBoost/V6 > SXT.
 
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