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Quote autoextremist.com,

It was a good run, but Chrysler's role as industry design leader officially comes to an end in Detroit. It seems like we have been talking about Chrysler design excellence for a long time now - and we have. From the glory days of the product renaissance led by Bob Lutz and Tom Gale to as recently as two years ago, Chrysler could always be counted on to deliver great stuff for the major auto shows - no matter how mediocre and uninspiring their street vehicles were. But as in all great runs, nothing lasts forever - and the wheels came off Chrysler's golden design era with a thud at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show.
First of all, the Challenger, though obviously calculated to be an improvement on the original in every respect, was far too literal in the flesh. Yes, it was cool and everything, but Chip Foose could have easily created something just like it in his shop. And the fact that Chrysler designers went around "fixing" all of the things that were wrong on the original and stopped there, left them no room to take the car further or "reach" with it in the future. The Challenger garnered lots of attention for Chrysler in the weeks leading up to the show, but by the time the actual media days arrived, it came off as a one-off custom hot rod designed to add a little eye candy to the Dodge display - and nothing more.



I agree with everythinge he said but I like how DCX did it. Later in the artical he went on to praise the Camaro Concept so he may be a little bias.
 

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Yeah, I saw that too. Normally I agree with most of what Peter has to say regarding the auto industry, but I think he is wrong about the Challenger. :( But, at the same time, he might be right about the Camaro. While I greatly prefer the Challenger, I have to admit the Camaro is not bad. Time will tell if either one actually makes it to production (I'd bet on the Challenger for sure, maybe on the Camaro).

Regardless of anyone's opinion, the real test of product success is in the sales numbers. So I say, build 'em all and let the market decide! (They should put that Imperial back in the barn though!) :D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I agree 100%. They also had this to say in fumes:

A New Trans-Am Series? It's now or never.
Now that Chevrolet has taken the wraps off its new Camaro and Chrysler has resurrected the Dodge Challenger at this week's 2006 Detroit Auto Show, the SCCA should start planning a new Trans-Am series for the 2008 season - which would allow GM, Ford and Chrysler to square-off against each other with factory-supported teams. Right now the Trans-Am is basically dead, with Champ Car having decided to drop the series from its roster - it's now a race series without a home.
So the powers that be need to decide what they want to do. If they want the Trans-Am to be revived in all of its glory, the planning should start right now to debut the new version in the 2008 season - the year Camaro and Challenger will be joining Mustang on the street. I would do "throw-back" rules too. No carbon tubs, restricted, production-based engine/transmissions and tight aerodynamic specifications. The interesting thing is that the SPEED World Challenge GT rules are closer to the original 60s Trans-Am rules than the most recent Trans-Am series rules.
A unified series (Trans-Am, SPEED World GT) would make the most sense, of course, but given the politics involved I would be shocked if that would ever happen. It would be ideal, but in lieu of that, a rejuvenated Trans-Am series with factory-supported teams featuring the latest re-born muscle cars from Detroit, with the country's best road racers at the wheel, would be boffo box office.
Somebody out there is listening - and if you need me to moderate the summit meeting to get the factories on the same page I'd be glad to do it.
But mark my words, if the Trans-Am series isn't revised to coincide with the return of these legendary street machines, then it will fade away forever.


... A new Trans-am would be so cool
 

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Mandate that the race-cars could only use production blocks, heads, transmissions and suspension components.

THEN you could be certain that the road-cars would get the manual transmissions... :)
 

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Well as they say, opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one... :rolleyes:

I suppose this guy is upset that the Mitsubishi-badged Challenger's design from 1978-83 (remember those?) wasn't incorporated in the new prototype somewhere...?
 

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I hate to admit it, but I think hes right about the new challenger.
Pretty much all they did is a bulked up version of the '70 challenger with a new grille and funny looking taillight.
 

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Not saying anything until I see both of them next week....

Would never buy a Camaro though. Too many bad memories of greasy guys with gold chains in Detroit driving Dudemaros in the 80s....
 

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Gosh, do I care about what industry-focused critics and reporters think about a concept or a production car? Lemme think. Okay, got it. NOT! For the same reason I'm not wearing everything that Mr. Blackwell likes. (Well, also because he only talks about girl clothes...)

Bring it, Dodge. Time for Daddy to own a Mopar.
 

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It's simply an opinion. In my opinion a bad one. The fact is, recently DCX has a good history of building concepts that become production cars (okay, let's not mention the Charger). I think the design of the new Challenger shows their intent to build it. However, when was the last time you saw GM adhere to a concept and build it? GM has had a number of cool Corvette, Camaro and T/A concepts over the years that never made it to showroom floors mainly because the design of the cars were way beyond what their production capabilities were. At least DCX is being realistic with their Challenger concept. I seriously doubt a new Camaro will look like the new concept, if they build one at all. Everyone knows GM's Chevrolet line has never been known for outrageous looks. They have always left that to Pontiac.
 

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Andrew said:
I hate to admit it, but I think hes right about the new challenger.
Pretty much all they did is a bulked up version of the '70 challenger with a new grille and funny looking taillight.
Yea, and I love it. Nice work DC.
 

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rodkil1 said:
Later in the artical he went on to praise the Camaro Concept so he may be a little bias.
Just goes to show you that he's a GM man and has no business doing what he does.
 

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Yes, it was cool and everything, but Chip Foose could have easily created something just like it in his shop
Just think how much a Foose custom 70' Hemi Challenger on a modern chassis would cost? I can bet it would be at least triple what it will be through DCX . Huge props to DCX if they can make a Chip Foose like Challenger, and affordable !
 

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rodkil1 said:
Quote autoextremist.com,

It was a good run, but Chrysler's role as industry design leader officially comes to an end in Detroit. It seems like we have been talking about Chrysler design excellence for a long time now - and we have. From the glory days of the product renaissance led by Bob Lutz and Tom Gale to as recently as two years ago, Chrysler could always be counted on to deliver great stuff for the major auto shows - no matter how mediocre and uninspiring their street vehicles were. But as in all great runs, nothing lasts forever - and the wheels came off Chrysler's golden design era with a thud at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show.
First of all, the Challenger, though obviously calculated to be an improvement on the original in every respect, was far too literal in the flesh. Yes, it was cool and everything, but Chip Foose could have easily created something just like it in his shop. And the fact that Chrysler designers went around "fixing" all of the things that were wrong on the original and stopped there, left them no room to take the car further or "reach" with it in the future. The Challenger garnered lots of attention for Chrysler in the weeks leading up to the show, but by the time the actual media days arrived, it came off as a one-off custom hot rod designed to add a little eye candy to the Dodge display - and nothing more.



I agree with everythinge he said but I like how DCX did it. Later in the artical he went on to praise the Camaro Concept so he may be a little bias.
I'm sorry to hear alot of these comments because these comments I've been reading are soo untrue just like this one. There is no comparison between old and new. First off this car was created (like the new mustang gt and shelby) to make a real"RETRO" looking 2 dr. muscle car with new improvements on all aspects of the car from inside and out and underneath. And NO, Chip Foose could not created and sell for "the same price" this beauty in a mass production or limited edition for the price....ask Carrol Shelby....as that is what he said about the new Shelby Mustang if he tried to do it himself. Just because the outside looks like the 70 challenger that we have all come to love I say.....THANK YOU!!...For that is "real retro designing" with new improvements on every aspect of the car,while maintaining that classic beautiful design. Sounds to me that this may be his strong opinion he's making or he might be a hater,and was pulling for the camaro concept as well. But everyone has their opinion and I think personally that Dcx has hit a Grand Slam with this beauty!! Voted best concept by many at the show,as I was there....along with all the polls coming in everywhere by many, as the challenger being the best concept. Now just drop in the 6.4L (392) 500++ hp motor in the srt-8 version and everyone will be salivating!!;) :D :cool:
 

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So his opinion is, he don't like it?

He is on the internet. He doesn't like it. I'm on the internet. I love it. Together, we cancel and both are opinions are worthless. The fact is, DCX had been flooded with e-mails DEMANDING they build this car and exactly as is. That is what his opinion is worth.

They will build the Challenger. And it will sell. I'll be buying.
 

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rodkil1 said:
Quote autoextremist.com,

Yes, it was cool and everything, but Chip Foose could have easily created something just like it in his shop.
Suuuuure. Sure he could. I'm sure Chipper could build 50,000 units that sell under $30k each.

Suuuuure he could.:D
 

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This is a tough call for me! When I first saw the spy photos of the new Challenger my jaw dropped to the floor! This is a dream come true for anyone who would like a Chip Foose designed 1970 Challenger. Then I saw the Camaro concept car and was very impressed with how they took the essence of a '69 Camaro, but pushed it into the 21st Century.

However, I think the Chevy designers took the Camaro too far. It's got a great wow factor, but too much is going on visually. If they simplified it in certain areas like the grill and hood (possibly the rear end), it would be out of sight. The Dodge designers didn't go far enough. The squat roofline is cool, however the side body panels only have a single crease line, which gives the body an overly chunky look. The rear quarter panels could use some spice and the rear deck should be shortened to give the front end the allusion of being longer without increasing the overhang.

IMO both design groups need to do some work, before these cars are ready for production.
 

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This writer for autoextremist has totally missed the point that all of us in this forum love. We love muscle cars and pony cars. The demand for classic Muscle and Pony cars increases as well as the price. The big three are finally seeing that they can cash in on their (and our) heritage. Muscle/Pony car people want styling lines that harken to the original. They had to come out with something that could stand up to that venerable prototype. Dodge hit a home run in the 70's with the Challenger/Cuda and they'd be idiots to do it anyother way than they are doing it now.

To me, it's obvious that Peter, or what ever the writer's name is, is either a Mopar hater or he is not a fan of Muscle and Pony cars. I don't care what he thinks!!!
 

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Well to be fair, the Camaro has had its share of hard knocks too with some critics - here's one I've come across...

  • Looks like: Anything but a Camaro
  • Defining characteristics: Mustang wheel arches, Mustang fastback roofline, mullet-haired driver, Rush CDs
  • Ridiculous features: The above, because this isn't a Mustang
  • Chance of being mass-produced: Not bloody likely — unless they start over
Start growing those mullets, boys; the Camaro is back! Sort of. It's actually a concept car and it looks like something — maybe even a bunch of things — with the exception of a Camaro.

Perhaps it's unfair, but everyone's going to compare this retro concept to the Dodge Challenger concept, which was the belle of the 2006 Detroit auto show ball. Dodge picked the definitive Challenger, the 1970 model, and designed its concept after that. Chevrolet started with classic Camaros, such as the 1969 model, and then strayed to the modern-day Corvette and then somehow ended up on the deck of an aircraft carrier, where they claim to have taken some cues from the YF-22, the most advanced fighter jet in the U.S. military.

The result is a Ford Mustang that can travel back in time, track 11 MiG fighters at once and neutralize them — all while remaining nearly invisible to enemy radar. While in development in Lockheed-Martin's super-secret skunkworks, the project was codenamed Chevy Hodgepodge.

But seriously, the Camaro concept is powered by a 400-horsepower version of the Corvette's 6.0-liter LS2 V-8. The transmission has six gears, a stick shift and a clutch pedal — as required by any muscle-car aficionado who doesn't want to get his butt kicked at the drive-in. Chevy estimates that the engine's cylinder-deactivation technology should grant fuel economy of 30 mpg or better. Naturally, the car is rear-wheel drive, with 22-inch wheels wearing gargantuan tires. The front wheels are a none-too-shabby 21 inches in diameter.

To stop this mighty beast, there are four-wheel disc brakes with 14-inch-diameter rotors. If these fail, the driver can always drop the landing hook and snag an arrestor wire to avoid plunging into the sea.

Not surprisingly, Chevrolet describes the car's interior as a cockpit inspired by fighter planes. Plans for an ejector seat were scrapped when an engineer recognized that the car has no sunroof. The two-passenger backseat is described as "occasional seating" for adults — which means you'd be much more comfortable back there if you were the size you were when Camaros were in their heyday.

As for the mullet, so long as it's a concept hairdo, you might be OK. Maybe it will look more like a pompadour mixed with a mohawk, with a hint of inspiration from marmot pelts. Call it a crossover. Who knows how it ultimately would come across — but it probably wouldn't look like a mullet.


So, there you have it. And we all know what opinions are like... :rolleyes:
 
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