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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Mods: K&N Cold Air, Flowmaster Outlaw Catback, 85mm Throttlebody Ported

Bought a trinity, Updated to latest firmware and using the 91 tune I'm getting ST Knock and LT Knock at over 50% throttle both within the low 5's.

I added fuel 5% to all the rpm ranges and still, knock like crazy. At WOT i had almost 12 ST Knock and 6 or 7 LT Knock.

Anyone know if i just gotta keep pumping fuel in or what?
 

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Wow, that's a lot.
Gotta find good fuel. If you aren't already, use 93 octane. If it's available in NY, get a bottle of NOS racing octane booster (around $10 a bottle here), put it in, fill up and see if it is better. You don't have acatch can listed, so if you don't have one, that may be part of the cause.
 

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Mods: K&N Cold Air, Flowmaster Outlaw Catback, 85mm Throttlebody Ported

Bought a trinity, Updated to latest firmware and using the 91 tune I'm getting ST Knock and LT Knock at over 50% throttle both within the low 5's.

I added fuel 5% to all the rpm ranges and still, knock like crazy. At WOT i had almost 12 ST Knock and 6 or 7 LT Knock.

Anyone know if i just gotta keep pumping fuel in or what?
Hmmm, what brand of gas are you using? Are you pumping 91 or 93 oct gas? Use either Sunoco, Shell, BP or one of the other top tier fuel brands. Try using a fuel additive to boost your oct rating...

With my mods i'm only seeing 1-3 ST knk (with the addition of the 190 thermostat) and no LT knk on the 93 Tune, but I use sunoco, shell or bp (sunoco is my #1 choice).
 

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Wow, that's a lot.
Gotta find good fuel. If you aren't already, use 93 octane. If it's available in NY, get a bottle of NOS racing octane booster (around $10 a bottle here), put it in, fill up and see if it is better. You don't have acatch can listed, so if you don't have one, that may be part of the cause.
Its available... Jonkers, I mean Yonkers has some good gas stations around... Excellent catch on the catch can... Looks like you beat me to the punch... :bangin:
 

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Bad gas is my first thought as well, not all 91 (or 93) is really that octane. Avoid the cheap, no-name stations and try a good top tier gas (Chevron, Shell).
 

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2013 Challenger SRT8
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catch can is really what Diablo is insisting on in regards to tuning as a first mod

second as everyone chimed in, bad fuel with yield these results; I had the same terrible results and corrected them with 7.5% in the 4.5k to red line range and going progressive from 5% to 7.5% below the 4.5k range

obviously depending on what fuel is in there you will yield different results;

i have read too many times the 91 and 93 tunes do not work well without a catch can (Mike and Johan) as i have the diablo tunes, johan tunes and hemifever tunes;

i tried a lot of them for fun, even ones with different ignition timing for racing gas set up

get a catch can and some good fuel, pump it up to 7.5% or may be higher and see what it does

you will conquer

Cheers

ODP
 

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These guys all have good advice. Also adjusting the fuel % on the Trinity only adjusts WOT, it does not adjust part throttle.

First try some 93 octane, then a catch can.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm only filling her with 93 Octane at my mobil station, I emptied my tank out and used another station with 93 (Sonoco) and still the knock proceeds.

I've ordered a Billet Catch Can but apparently there is a 20 day lead time so i may dump that and spent a bit more and get an Arlington or speedlogix one. Billet one looks nice but waiting nearly a month to get a small item isn't worth it.

I'm going to up the fuel a bit more and go on a little trip, thanks guys!
 

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Something doesn't seem right with your limited mods and getting such high knk with sunoco gas. I'm no expert, but either your getting a bad batch of gas from all the stations your way, or your car isn't mod friendly (j/k). Hmm I would do some data logs and send them to Diablo, see if they can't point you in the right direction.

Try reverting back to stock tune and log your knk and see if you are still knocking, if you are, it may not be tune related, if you aren't knocking then it may be the tune that's causing the issue, but Diablo would probably be your best bet for support, all we can do as members is speculate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Something doesn't seem right with your limited mods and getting such high knk with sunoco gas. I'm no expert, but either your getting a bad batch of gas from all the stations your way, or your car isn't mod friendly (j/k). Hmm I would do some data logs and send them to Diablo, see if they can't point you in the right direction.

Try reverting back to stock tune and log your knk and see if you are still knocking, if you are, it may not be tune related, if you aren't knocking then it may be the tune that's causing the issue, but Diablo would probably be your best bet for support, all we can do as members is speculate.
Right now the car is on a short driving list, My luck has it as my diablo trinity cable is now having reading issues. They mailed out another cable today as the cable randomly decides to work or not work.

I ordered a billet one but i may cancel it due to the 20 day wait time.
 

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That is very bad. I mean real ****ing bad dude. That is horrible and a disaster waiting to happen. NO BS.
Open your TB and look in your intake with a flash light real good, do you see oil in there ? gotta know.
Next,, well you know, Catch can, and go change your plugs. Dont pull and replace with exact ones. Check and see if there are the right ones. Then, change them all anyway. Then let us know whats going on.
It aint going on right now, IMO
Good luck
FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
That is very bad. I mean real ****ing bad dude. That is horrible and a disaster waiting to happen. NO BS.
Open your TB and look in your intake with a flash light real good, do you see oil in there ? gotta know.
Next,, well you know, Catch can, and go change your plugs. Dont pull and replace with exact ones. Check and see if there are the right ones. Then, change them all anyway. Then let us know whats going on.
It aint going on right now, IMO
Good luck
FlatTop
All being taken care of tomorrow. Photos and etc will be taken. I'll gladly be the reason to show why you need a catch can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Any update?
Yesir, After 40k miles this is what my intake manifold looked like.



There is a hazing of oil and just some sludge build up at the bottom of it, that isn't a pool. We wiped it off with one cloth quickly and was basically nothing.

The throttle body was clean, a little smudgent of oil on the lip of it, nothing else wiped it off with my hand.

We are changing the sparkplugs as a procautionary even though removing half of the plugs so far today no oil was found on them nor any oil in the sockets where they go.

Catch Can doesn't seem to be coming today, Speedlogix said it was shipped out yesterday but reading the email and website order number now they emailed me to tell me it's shipped out and the date shipped was the 13th aka today. Kinda misleading but it's alright I guess..
 

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That is very bad. I mean real ****ing bad dude. That is horrible and a disaster waiting to happen. NO BS.
Open your TB and look in your intake with a flash light real good, do you see oil in there ? gotta know.
Next,, well you know, Catch can, and go change your plugs. Dont pull and replace with exact ones. Check and see if there are the right ones. Then, change them all anyway. Then let us know whats going on.
It aint going on right now, IMO
Good luck
FlatTop
any recommendations on spark plug? is there a thread on that where we can see a matrix stating Challenger model / trims / year / tune / not tuned / NA / SuperCharged / Spark Plug recommended

that would be a cool chart to keep unless all is MOPAR plug and that's it

ODP
 

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Yesir, After 40k miles this is what my intake manifold looked like.



There is a hazing of oil and just some sludge build up at the bottom of it, that isn't a pool. We wiped it off with one cloth quickly and was basically nothing.

The throttle body was clean, a little smudgent of oil on the lip of it, nothing else wiped it off with my hand.

We are changing the sparkplugs as a procautionary even though removing half of the plugs so far today no oil was found on them nor any oil in the sockets where they go.

Catch Can doesn't seem to be coming today, Speedlogix said it was shipped out yesterday but reading the email and website order number now they emailed me to tell me it's shipped out and the date shipped was the 13th aka today. Kinda misleading but it's alright I guess..

Nice picture of inside.
The hazing in the intake, comes from the oil vapor. It is going into the motor or there wouldnt be Any hazing of oil. The slightest amount of oil vapor Kills the octane rating of the fuel and will cause Kr.
The oil/sludge in the bottom all came from the vapor and is no good. Ive seen worse. Any is bad.
The amount you have in the intake, you can figure twice that amount went through the motor, as intended by the manufacture. It is normal and its the way all of them are.

BTW, I like to use a stainless steel cleaning pad, I loosly push it into the bottom of your catch can as it helps catch more oil from the passing gasses as it goes through.
Provides much more surface aeara to grab the oil and helps keep the oil in the can. Something for it to hold onto.

Keep us up to speed of whats happening,
FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Another update for today. I installed the catch can thanks to speedlogix literally shipping it for me next day after i requested it!

Moroso's Catch Can was easy to install. It came with one really long tube which had to be cut. No problem right? Yeah pretty much. I decided to re-use the original tubing as it was already twisted to fit in perfectly. After a couple of hours of driving the original tubing tore on the catch cans end. Got a new tube since luckily i noticed it at the auto parts store. Semi-fixed it on till its morning.

Waiting on a new cable from diablotune so i can monitor for knock. Did around a 200 mile trip today, nothing noticeable built up in the catch can.
 

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Oh cool deal. It will take a couple thousand miles to really get any. In 3000 miles I get 1/8 a cup max of oil. And I have a loose motor with ring end gap at .025th
With ST and LT that high....The CC is only help, but IMO not the total problem.
When mine had st kr that high I had bent push rods. 3 of them. Slightly bent.

Idle was fine and not rough. Rap up to 6400 in an instant with 8lbs of boost. Still then ran 11:60s The only way I knew they were bent is I took the motor apart for a build to a 392.
Right before I pulled the motor I was getting ST and LT like you are now. It wasnt detnation or Kr it was False knock. And it could NOT be heard outside the car or twisting the motor up either couldnt be heard.
Another item to check will be the chassis or anything loose hitting frame or motor will cause KR. I know that as fact BTW
Then its depending on the miles and it only took 6000 with no catch can to build up oil carbon on top of the pistons. A little carbon makes a hot spot and KR, another fact I know. Water is a good clean up for that.
Again keep us up on this one.
FT
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Oh cool deal. It will take a couple thousand miles to really get any. In 3000 miles I get 1/8 a cup max of oil. And I have a loose motor with ring end gap at .025th
With ST and LT that high....The CC is only help, but IMO not the total problem.
When mine had st kr that high I had bent push rods. 3 of them. Slightly bent.

Idle was fine and not rough. Rap up to 6400 in an instant with 8lbs of boost. Still then ran 11:60s The only way I knew they were bent is I took the motor apart for a build to a 392.
Right before I pulled the motor I was getting ST and LT like you are now. It wasnt detnation or Kr it was False knock. And it could NOT be heard outside the car or twisting the motor up either couldnt be heard.
Another item to check will be the chassis or anything loose hitting frame or motor will cause KR. I know that as fact BTW
Then its depending on the miles and it only took 6000 with no catch can to build up oil carbon on top of the pistons. A little carbon makes a hot spot and KR, another fact I know. Water is a good clean up for that.
Again keep us up on this one.
FT
Same issue, No knock can be heard from the outside. I'll keep everyone updated as needed
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
After installing a catch can and sorting a tune out with Sean from Hemifever we have seemed to reach a great tune that knocks me back into my seat every shift and reduced knock to near nothing.

The trinity tune for 93 causes crazy knock, whereas Sean's doesn't. Aka those canned tunes are really random. I know someone just running the canned tune with no knock. Shows the variance in our engines.
 
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