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Discussion Starter #1
Currently running two Flowmaster Super 10 mufflers with resonators deleted through my 2013 Challenger SXT (3.6l V6) but do not like the sound at high RPM's.

I have read up a bit on people stating running a single muffler instead with a 2-in 2-out configuration yields a much better sound, but I would like to know which is THE muffler to use with this configuration, tried and true. Something that at least minimizes or if possible, eliminates the high pitch ricey sound that is affiliated with the pentastar engine. I do not expect a V8 sound but just want the best possible sound for running a single 2-in 2-out muffler. Please post a video below to back your claim, I want to hear YOUR experiences!

Please note I am not interested in dropping the coin on a cat-back setup
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Straight Through Products


I want to try one of these. Not sure if they'll fit properly though.

Any insight?
I would like to see a sound clip of that, I don't know anyone who's used that setup yet

Going through the links now

EDIT: Okay, so I went through every link and read the write-ups. I HAVE to know 2 things, how good does the SI/DO JFB muffler truely sound against 2 Flowmaster Super 10's? So far from the audio clips it is very difficult to distinguish how it really shapes up against it.

2nd thing, would you be able to upload a more recent video of how the JFB muffler sounds on Start-up/Parked Revs/Take-off/ and WOT? That would seal the deal on me getting this muffler
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I would like to see a sound clip of that, I don't know anyone who's used that setup yet



Going through the links now

EDIT: Okay, so I went through every link and read the write-ups. I HAVE to know 2 things, how good does the SI/DO JFB muffler truely sound against 2 Flowmaster Super 10's? So far from the audio clips it is very difficult to distinguish how it really shapes up against it.

2nd thing, would you be able to upload a more recent video of how the JFB muffler sounds on Start-up/Parked Revs/Take-off/ and WOT? That would seal the deal on me getting this muffler
I'm on my 2nd Challenger, and I replaced the stock exhaust in both (muffler+resonators) with a single JFB muffler and standard exhaust pipe in same diameter as stock all the way to the tips coming out. My current one is a 2010 with the 3.5L and it's got a little different exhaust from factory than the 3.6L, which my first Challenger had in it.

The 3.5L has its exhaust pipes coming out of downstream cats join together into one and enter the muffler mid-car. The exhaust pipe coming out of the muffler was 2.5" to the resonator and tip. The 3.6L has true dual exhaust pipes from the downstream cats all the way to the tips, with an X pipe mid-car and pre-mufflers. And the pipes are 2.25" from the X-pipe to the tips.

When I did my 2011 with the 3.6L JFB upgrade, I had the exhaust shop cut both sides of exhaust pipes just aft of the x-pipe and weld in a dual-in/dual-out JFB muffler. The original pipes coming out of the original mufflers were not going to line up, and I didn't want the resonators anyway, so they were discarded along with the mufflers. I had them run standard exhaust pipe in the same size as original (2.25") from the dual outs of the muffler to the 2 exits on the rear bumper.

For my 2010 with the 3.5L, the concept was the same, but the implementation was a little different. I bought a single-in/dual-out JFB muffler and had it welded in place of the original muffler (single suitcase), and then discarded the original (single) pipe and resonator going out the back. It was replaced with dual exhaust pipe (2.5") from exhaust shop, run out to the tips.

So in your case, you probably don't want to try to make the si/do work, as you likely won't gain anything sound-wise, and it will be more trouble and harder to get mounted safely underneath the car. The dii/do setup is close enough to the si/do concept to still sound really good even though the engine is only a V6.

The "concept" is that you want to have as many cylinders as possible emptying into the muffler together in order to tame the V6 rasp. With the si/do muffler, that's simple, you're forcing all 6 into one inlet. But with the dual-in muffler, you're still getting all 6 exhaust pulses into the muffler, even though they're arriving via 2 separate inlets. It's close enough to still be able produce the nice low-rpm rumble without risking the raspy crackle of the stock V6 exhaust (only 3 cylinders emptying into each muffler BTW).

Now, the engine is still a V6, so there will be a part of the RPM range where it won't sound very good through the exhaust, no matter what setup/config is used. With the JFBs, I found that to be non-WOT engine operation in the 3-4.5K RPM range.

0-2.5K or 3K sounds great, and > 5K is good too, especially at WOT. But if you're not full throttle but still winding it up, that 3-4K range will not sound as good as the rest of the time. But that's fine with me...any time I go above 3K RPMs, I just go ahead and floor it to go WOT, that way I don't have to worry about the exhaust's audio profile suffering :wink3:

As far as sound clips of my Challengers and their JFBs, I do have some that you could check out on Youtube (these are all the 2011 w/ 3.6L):

...but like I said, they're going to be me operating the engine at either low RPMs or WOT, which you've probably already heard plenty.

My car is actually at the body shop right now, and I won't get it back for another 10 days at least. So I won't be able to record any new sound clips of the exhaust for you. At least not any time soon. But there are others on this forum who went with the JFB setup that have vids available, so you can still find examples to listen to if you search around (try searching the SE/SXT forum only for "JFB" and "Jones Full Boar", and be sure to select the option to return posts instead of whole threads. You'll find them pretty quick like that I bet.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm on my 2nd Challenger, and I replaced the stock exhaust in both (muffler+resonators) with a single JFB muffler and standard exhaust pipe in same diameter as stock all the way to the tips coming out. My current one is a 2010 with the 3.5L and it's got a little different exhaust from factory than the 3.6L, which my first Challenger had in it.

The 3.5L has its exhaust pipes coming out of downstream cats join together into one and enter the muffler mid-car. The exhaust pipe coming out of the muffler was 2.5" to the resonator and tip. The 3.6L has true dual exhaust pipes from the downstream cats all the way to the tips, with an X pipe mid-car and pre-mufflers. And the pipes are 2.25" from the X-pipe to the tips.

When I did my 2011 with the 3.6L JFB upgrade, I had the exhaust shop cut both sides of exhaust pipes just aft of the x-pipe and weld in a dual-in/dual-out JFB muffler. The original pipes coming out of the original mufflers were not going to line up, and I didn't want the resonators anyway, so they were discarded along with the mufflers. I had them run standard exhaust pipe in the same size as original (2.25") from the dual outs of the muffler to the 2 exits on the rear bumper.

For my 2010 with the 3.5L, the concept was the same, but the implementation was a little different. I bought a single-in/dual-out JFB muffler and had it welded in place of the original muffler (single suitcase), and then discarded the original (single) pipe and resonator going out the back. It was replaced with dual exhaust pipe (2.5") from exhaust shop, run out to the tips.

So in your case, you probably don't want to try to make the si/do work, as you likely won't gain anything sound-wise, and it will be more trouble and harder to get mounted safely underneath the car. The dii/do setup is close enough to the si/do concept to still sound really good even though the engine is only a V6.

The "concept" is that you want to have as many cylinders as possible emptying into the muffler together in order to tame the V6 rasp. With the si/do muffler, that's simple, you're forcing all 6 into one inlet. But with the dual-in muffler, you're still getting all 6 exhaust pulses into the muffler, even though they're arriving via 2 separate inlets. It's close enough to still be able produce the nice low-rpm rumble without risking the raspy crackle of the stock V6 exhaust (only 3 cylinders emptying into each muffler BTW).

Now, the engine is still a V6, so there will be a part of the RPM range where it won't sound very good through the exhaust, no matter what setup/config is used. With the JFBs, I found that to be non-WOT engine operation in the 3-4.5K RPM range.

0-2.5K or 3K sounds great, and > 5K is good too, especially at WOT. But if you're not full throttle but still winding it up, that 3-4K range will not sound as good as the rest of the time. But that's fine with me...any time I go above 3K RPMs, I just go ahead and floor it to go WOT, that way I don't have to worry about the exhaust's audio profile suffering :wink3:

As far as sound clips of my Challengers and their JFBs, I do have some that you could check out on Youtube (these are all the 2011 w/ 3.6L):


...but like I said, they're going to be me operating the engine at either low RPMs or WOT, which you've probably already heard plenty.

My car is actually at the body shop right now, and I won't get it back for another 10 days at least. So I won't be able to record any new sound clips of the exhaust for you. At least not any time soon. But there are others on this forum who went with the JFB setup that have vids available, so you can still find examples to listen to if you search around (try searching the SE/SXT forum only for "JFB" and "Jones Full Boar", and be sure to select the option to return posts instead of whole threads. You'll find them pretty quick like that I bet.
Thanks for the write-up and quick response, I know the biggest issue with the 3.6L is the 3k+ Rev range that causes the higher pitch, I really wish there was an inexpensive way to fix it. I've already seen all of your youtube videos on seperate occasions, I really wanted to hear a clear parked rev's video though, the 3.6L always sounds good when revving below 3K but I was hoping to hear how it sounded above it.

I will try to search for the videos using the method you suggest but so far have found nothing up until this point in generalized searches. My challenger sounds decent with the setup it already has, i'm just hoping that JFB will make it sound better/deeper than my current setup even if it isn't a huge difference.

Thanks again for the info

EDIT: P.S. Tool - Sober is awesome
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Thanks for the write-up and quick response, I know the biggest issue with the 3.6L is the 3k+ Rev range that causes the higher pitch, I really wish there was an inexpensive way to fix it. I've already seen all of your youtube videos on seperate occasions, I really wanted to hear a clear parked rev's video though, the 3.6L always sounds good when revving below 3K but I was hoping to hear how it sounded above it.

I will try to search for the videos using the method you suggest but so far have found nothing up until this point in generalized searches. My challenger sounds decent with the setup it already has, i'm just hoping that JFB will make it sound better/deeper than my current setup even if it isn't a huge difference.

Thanks again for the info

EDIT: P.S. Tool - Sober is awesome
I seem to remember a guy who had some JFB videos of his car recorded while he was revving it, but I cannot remember his handle. I think he was the same guy who tried to send me a PM but accidentally posted it as a visitor messagse to my profile page for all the world to see. Anyway, we basically held our back-and-forth convo via that public message board on my profile page, so he should be easiest enough to ID. So gimme a sec and I'll be right back...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I seem to remember a guy who had some JFB videos of his car recorded while he was revving it, but I cannot remember his handle. I think he was the same guy who tried to send me a PM but accidentally posted it as a visitor messagse to my profile page for all the world to see. Anyway, we basically held our back-and-forth convo via that public message board on my profile page, so he should be easiest enough to ID. So gimme a sec and I'll be right back...
Okay awesome, i've been on youtube a million times searching for different setups on the 3.6l pentastar and so far JFB videos are super scarce, you have the most ones up
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Okay awesome, i've been on youtube a million times searching for different setups on the 3.6l pentastar and so far JFB videos are super scarce, you have the most ones up
I don't know if the site has changed things around recently or if I'm just tired and cannot remember how to get to my public messages, but I could not find the page in my profile I am talking about.

Try to click on my member name and see if it gives you an option to send me a message on the subsequent landing page. If it does, one of the options should be sending a private message. Whatever the other option is, public or whatever, is the page I was talking about. Click on that other option (the non-private message one) and see if you see a bunch of a messages from a guy who's profile pic is an LX car jumping through the air like Dukes of Hazzard or something.

If you see it, that's him (@RockandRolla seems to ring a bell, that might be his member name, or danged close if it's not). Use his member name to narrow down any searches in the SE/SXT section for Jones Full Boar related posts, as I think he's got some good sounding ones of all RPM driving.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I found a JFB folder in my Linux box's Chromium browser and exported it to HTML so you can check them out and see if any are worth a darn. (file is attached to this post)

I haven't gone through them in a year or two, but they're obviously related to what we're talking about in this thread. Save the attached TXT file off and rename it as an HTML file, and that will allow you to import it into your browser to automatically import the bookmarks.

View attachment JFB_bookmarks.txt

Or you can just open the TXT file in Notepad or whatever and copy & paste the relevant URLs from it into your browser one at a time.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks again for all the info, really resourceful stuff. Quick question, X-Pipe vs H-Pipe strictly as far as sound is concerned?
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Thanks again for all the info, really resourceful stuff. Quick question, X-Pipe vs H-Pipe strictly as far as sound is concerned?
I remember trying to find more info on the difference between the two back when i was researching exhaust options, but i don't remember what all i came up with. I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that the X-pipe is better for low end performance, even if we're only talking a few TTQ. But seeing as the Pentastar's exhaust already has an X-pipe built into it, there's no good reason to remove that and go with an H-pipe, especially if it will cost extra money to have it done.
 

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For a V8 H pipe is said to have the more "old school" sound. On a V6, I have no idea. The 3.5L does have a better exhaust note than the 3.6L. A Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #14
For a V8 H pipe is said to have the more "old school" sound. On a V6, I have no idea. The 3.5L does have a better exhaust note than the 3.6L. A Guy
Yeah it's always been a shame that the 3.5 sounds better and puts out 55 less HP. It's sucks even more that there is no headers option for the pentastar.

As far as the X vs H there has to be someone who's gone out of their way to try it on the 3.6L to see if it's worth it sound-wise! Definitely willing to give up a tiny amount of low end TQ if it means the pentastar could sound good without breaking the bank
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Yeah it's always been a shame that the 3.5 sounds better and puts out 55 less HP. It's sucks even more that there is no headers option for the pentastar.

As far as the X vs H there has to be someone who's gone out of their way to try it on the 3.6L to see if it's worth it sound-wise! Definitely willing to give up a tiny amount of low end TQ if it means the pentastar could sound good without breaking the bank
Technically speaking, the difference between the modified exhaust sounds of the 3.5 and 3.6 has less to do with the motors being different and more to do with the pre-muffler exhaust config. If the 3.6 had the same pre-muffler exhaust config as the 3.5, it's exhaust sound (when modified) would be indistinguishable from the 3.5 (except prob at WOT).

Regarding H vs X pipes on these V6s: IIRC the H pipe was originally used to help the sound and low end perf on old school V8s with true dual exhaust. The extra pipe needed to make an H in two separate exhaust pipes was easy to install, and so it became the norm for the carbed V8s.

Then somebody took the concept of that exhaust scavenging joiner pipe and experimented with diff orientations, and eventually found the X joint to be the most efficient at scavenging exhaust gases from the opposite bank cylinders (the main reason to do this in the first place). And ever since then, the X pipe had been used in lieu of the H pipe because it's nominally better for perf.

As far as the exhaust sound improvements go, i would be very surprised if you could tell any diff between your car with an H vs an X when it comes to sound from the modified exhaust.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Technically speaking, the difference between the modified exhaust sounds of the 3.5 and 3.6 has less to do with the motors being different and more to do with the pre-muffler exhaust config. If the 3.6 had the same pre-muffler exhaust config as the 3.5, it's exhaust sound (when modified) would be indistinguishable from the 3.5 (except prob at WOT).

Regarding H vs X pipes on these V6s: IIRC the H pipe was originally used to help the sound and low end perf on old school V8s with true dual exhaust. The extra pipe needed to make an H in two separate exhaust pipes was easy to install, and so it became the norm for the carbed V8s.

Then somebody took the concept of that exhaust scavenging joiner pipe and experimented with diff orientations, and eventually found the X joint to be the most efficient at scavenging exhaust gases from the opposite bank cylinders (the main reason to do this in the first place). And ever since then, the X pipe had been used in lieu of the H pipe because it's nominally better for perf.

As far as the exhaust sound improvements go, i would be very surprised if you could tell any diff between your car with an H vs an X when it comes to sound from the modified exhaust.
Very interesting info. So essentially, the best mod I could perform on my 3.6L is changing out the pipes/config before the mufflers? IIRC the 3.5L had a single Y Pipe that split to the mufflers
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Very interesting info. So essentially, the best mod I could perform on my 3.6L is changing out the pipes/config before the mufflers? IIRC the 3.5L had a single Y Pipe that split to the mufflers
Well, I don't know if I would go that far...I mean, if you were dead set on making the 3.6 sound just like the 3.5 when running a modified exhaust, then yes, you would need to mimic the Y pipe that the 3.5 uses to dump into the muffler from the aft cats. But I honestly don't think the net improvement in sound would be worth the expense of having that extra exhaust work done.

While I agree that the 3.5 has a little deeper burble at low RPMs than the 3.6 when running modified exhaust, it's not THAT much deeper. Certainly not enough that I would want to pay another few hundred bucks to try to emulate it in my 3.6, not to mention take the chance on giving up a few HP/TQ in the low end by doing it.

And then there's the unknown variable of exhaust pipe diameter. The 3.5L has 2.5" pipe going into the muffler and coming out of the muffler. The 3.6L has 2.25" pipe going in and coming out. Would keeping the 2.25" inlet/outlet have any effects that the Y-pipe couldn't cancel out? I do not know that one. It's an unknown as far as I know. (I doubt it would affect the sound much, but again, I am only guessing there).

Look, if there is anyone on this forum who can understand the desire to have a good sounding exhaust on your car, it is me, trust me!! But I really think keeping the factory x-pipe the 3.6 has and just replacing the muffler(s) is your best move going forward. You are virtually guaranteed to be pleased with the end result (once mufller is burned in).

Could you have been a little more pleased by doing the y-pipe? Possibly, but you could also end up much less pleased with the end result too. Not enough of a reward to risk that in my mind.

That's my take on the situation anyway, YMMV obviously. :laugh2:
 

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Well, I don't know if I would go that far...I mean, if you were dead set on making the 3.6 sound just like the 3.5 when running a modified exhaust, then yes, you would need to mimic the Y pipe that the 3.5 uses to dump into the muffler from the aft cats. But I honestly don't think the net improvement in sound would be worth the expense of having that extra exhaust work done.

While I agree that the 3.5 has a little deeper burble at low RPMs than the 3.6 when running modified exhaust, it's not THAT much deeper. Certainly not enough that I would want to pay another few hundred bucks to try to emulate it in my 3.6, not to mention take the chance on giving up a few HP/TQ in the low end by doing it.

And then there's the unknown variable of exhaust pipe diameter. The 3.5L has 2.5" pipe going into the muffler and coming out of the muffler. The 3.6L has 2.25" pipe going in and coming out. Would keeping the 2.25" inlet/outlet have any effects that the Y-pipe couldn't cancel out? I do not know that one. It's an unknown as far as I know. (I doubt it would affect the sound much, but again, I am only guessing there).

Look, if there is anyone on this forum who can understand the desire to have a good sounding exhaust on your car, it is me, trust me!! But I really think keeping the factory x-pipe the 3.6 has and just replacing the muffler(s) is your best move going forward. You are virtually guaranteed to be pleased with the end result (once mufller is burned in).

Could you have been a little more pleased by doing the y-pipe? Possibly, but you could also end up much less pleased with the end result too. Not enough of a reward to risk that in my mind.

That's my take on the situation anyway, YMMV obviously. :laugh2:
Didn't think it would be worth it. I will probably settle with the Single JFB Muffler 2-in 2-out mod. Has anyone figured out how to get headers on the 3.6L? I know the exhaust manifold is cast to the head as one part, but there has to be a way. I am thinking that machine milling is one way..but that sounds like an expensive route...
 

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I am not familiar at all with the V6 engines in these cars, are the 3.5 and 3.6 the same engine bored and/or stroked or are they completely different engines?

On other (Mustang) forums where I have seen the same comparisons between X & H pipes always came to the same conclusion that while the X pipe makes more power (not enough difference to really worry about) it sounded more raspy than the H pipe which was considered to have a more old school muscle car sound in comparison.

Engine Masters have recently done a straight vs H vs X pipe comparison on a V8, they from memory liked the sound of the X pipe, there was not much difference between the X & the H but the straight through was seriously down on power on the same engine.

 

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I have to add that on my 440 Charger I designed my own exhaust based on Mercedes AMG exhausts (I delivered them on a transporter at the time) I have no idea what was on the in side but it looked like both banks of the V8 fed a single chamber around a foot or so long then had two pipes exiting through mufflers and out to the rear, I with a little (lot) of help from a friend who could weld made my own version of this same thing, I don't recall weather or not they had resonators (my guess is the Merc's did) but my Charger didn't and it sounded awesome (to Me :yesnod:). Mind you that could just be a 440 thing. :eusa_dance:
 
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