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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone... I know there are countless of posts discussing peoples many issues with alignments and adjustments for toe, camber and caster....

However, i still have a few questions as I am just now learning a bit more of these terms and wanted to see if i could get some additional help to learn about these areas.

A few days ago I noticed my tires, bought august of 17', are wearing out from the inside. Soon it will be just wire which has led me to buy new tires (installing them soon.)

I went to get the alignment done and was told by this small shop that my caster and camber needed adjustment and that it would cost $230 from their shop. He stressed that the rear end of the vehicle could be left as is but stressed that the frot end had to have the camber adjusted as well as the caster... and FAST! Before paying up i decided to do some research and found out that:

1) Camber cannot be adjusted on these vehicles unless...
a) Camber bolts can be used to adjust minimally
b) Eibach alignment kit can be used for more adjustment

This led to stop by at pep boys where one of my friends works. He confirmed that the camber is not adjustable and advised that I look at the suspension and look for worn out components that could be leading to the negative camber and bad caster as well. He mentioned something might be broken. In addition, he confirm that camber bolts can be used or the alignment kit.


However, I am unsure if this is what my car needs. Any suggestions on what I can do to ensure this doesn't happen to my new tires as I've never faced this issue before... car has not been in any accidents other than minimal curb rash once before.

I have attached a picture of the alignment readings... any advise on how to approach this before installing the new tires.
 

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Hi everyone... I know there are countless of posts discussing peoples many issues with alignments and adjustments for toe, camber and caster....

However, i still have a few questions as I am just now learning a bit more of these terms and wanted to see if i could get some additional help to learn about these areas.

A few days ago I noticed my tires, bought august of 17', are wearing out from the inside. Soon it will be just wire which has led me to buy new tires (installing them soon.)

I went to get the alignment done and was told by this small shop that my caster and camber needed adjustment and that it would cost $230 from their shop. He stressed that the rear end of the vehicle could be left as is but stressed that the frot end had to have the camber adjusted as well as the caster... and FAST! Before paying up i decided to do some research and found out that:

1) Camber cannot be adjusted on these vehicles unless...
a) Camber bolts can be used to adjust minimally
b) Eibach alignment kit can be used for more adjustment

This led to stop by at pep boys where one of my friends works. He confirmed that the camber is not adjustable and advised that I look at the suspension and look for worn out components that could be leading to the negative camber and bad caster as well. He mentioned something might be broken. In addition, he confirm that camber bolts can be used or the alignment kit.


However, I am unsure if this is what my car needs. Any suggestions on what I can do to ensure this doesn't happen to my new tires as I've never faced this issue before... car has not been in any accidents other than minimal curb rash once before.

I have attached a picture of the alignment readings... any advise on how to approach this before installing the new tires.
Camber/caster based on my experience have no effect on tire wear.

Excessive uneven tire wear -- inside edges of both front and rear tires -- is not camber related but due to incorrect toe.

(Both my Boxster and Turbo rear tires had considerable negative camber. But with the correct toe rear tire wear was very even across the tread faces -- the Turbo tires were 11" wide and soft as all get out -- and tire life was quite good considering. Might point out too that cars receive an alignment that might look like it could result in uneven tire wear but once underway the tire makes full contact with the road. Both my Boxster and Turbo had considerable negative camber. While I never got a chance to observe them underway I had plenty of opportunity to observe other Porsche cars underway and the rear tires flattened right out. The cars one sees with excessively wide tires with excessive camber are not normal and no doubt since the tires with the car underway do not make full contact with the road suffer from extremely uneven and accelerated tire wear.)

For camber adjustment with other cars I've gone with aftermarket suspension setups to allow for more or in some cases just any camber adjustment. In one case I even made bushings with an offset hole to allow the bushing to be rotated and move the lower control arm in or out to affect camber.

For caster generally this not adjustable. (Cars with Macpherson strut front suspension can possibly have some caster and even camber adjustment if the bolts at the top of the strut are loosened and the top of the strut moved in or out which affects camber or moved forward or backward to possibly affect caster. But how much "adjustment" is present -- if any -- is pretty small.)

I never had any reason to mess with this, but if the car's caster is not right or the same from side to side this can (will) result in the car pulling to one side or the other and some aftermarket hardware that allows for some caster adjustment will be necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks so much for all that information. I had the toe adjusted but the car still continues to pull towards the left. Based on the additional research I’ve done, as well as your comment I believe this is due to the caster. Looking at the car from the back the rear passenger side tire definitely looks to be at an angle, I assume given the camber. My new tires and wheels come in this Friday so I’m trying to rectify all numbers back to original specs by then or as soon as possible. Looking at my front tires I’m even consider replacing the struts & shocks as I’ve hit 52,000 miles this morning as well.

I have been looking at the SPC adjustable upper control arms for the front and their camber bushings for the front. You have any ideas if these are good to get the adjustments done?
 

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I'm with Rockster on this one. I believe negative camber is overly blamed as a cause of uneven wear. These cars have a good amount of it baked in from factory, for handling reasons. But combined with incorrect toe and/or lack of rotations, it can contribute to accelerated or uneven wear.

For it to cause a problem like a pull to one side, it would have to be significantly different side to side. In other words, it got slid into a curb or got in a accident, and something is bent. At that point, you need replacement parts and collision damage dealt with. Not adjustment.
 

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I have been looking at the SPC adjustable upper control arms for the front and their camber bushings for the front. You have any ideas if these are good to get the adjustments done?

Yep, these should get the job done. They'll give you the most range of adjustment. The front camber bolts can only provide .5° adjustment, IIRC. One thing to note, the rear bushings are not adjustable once installed. They're like the bushings Rockster described, they have an offset center that provides some angular change depending on how it's rotated. I'm not sure if they can be removed and reoriented if you need future adjustments.


A company called BMR make adjustable rear arms so you could have future adjustments front and rear if needed.
 

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I lowered my srt on Eibach prokits, my car was pretty far out of spec, there is only toe adjustment available with factory parts, and the rear toe adjustment is very limited, so I had my alignment guy install the SPC front control arms which have caster adjustment as well as a good range of camber adjustment, I also had him install the camber bushings in the rear, as said, you can get away with a good bit of negative camber if toe is in spec.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks again everyone. I did hit a curb once pretty hard when I first got challenger (2015 sxt+) but i checked and confirmed that no damage was made to any parts (lucky me). Also, my car is as stock as they come, haven’t really changed much since getting it since I wasn’t still in school paying tuition as I went.

I wasn’t aware camber didn’t play as huge of a role in tire wear as the shop made it out to be. I was thinking of giving the caster/camber bolt a shot for the front suspension and the busing a shot for the rear. However, the upper control arms as mentioned in the post above is much more flexible.

Would you guys recommend giving those a shot, gettingbthe alighnent done and see where my toe and camber sit at after this?

Worse case scenario, I can exchange those parts for the upper control arm if the specs don’t improve.

I attached the parts I’m looking at as well as the specs from the alignment shop.
 

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You're near the limits but the only thing that's really out of spec looks to be the front left camber. Everything else is still within limits.


Looks kinda like mine after I lowered it except my rears were out of spec entirely. Used the SPC bushings and they worked fine.
 

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Do you rotate the tires on a regular basis ? I think the toe was your problem and you may not need to throw new parts @ it.
 

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Thanks so much for all that information. I had the toe adjusted but the car still continues to pull towards the left. Based on the additional research I’ve done, as well as your comment I believe this is due to the caster. Looking at the car from the back the rear passenger side tire definitely looks to be at an angle, I assume given the camber. My new tires and wheels come in this Friday so I’m trying to rectify all numbers back to original specs by then or as soon as possible. Looking at my front tires I’m even consider replacing the struts & shocks as I’ve hit 52,000 miles this morning as well.

I have been looking at the SPC adjustable upper control arms for the front and their camber bushings for the front. You have any ideas if these are good to get the adjustments done?

The before and after numbers look kind of crummy. No experience with my Dodge Hellcat but with previous cars techs told me any alignment done with "worn" tires is suspect. The alignment can probably be improved -- and in one case was -- but the alignment quality is compromised by the tire wear to some extent.


With new tires fitted and at a good highly regarded alignment shop then the tech should be able to bring the alignment into spec of course assuming there is the ability to adjust the various settings.


One thing a tech should look for is if he has to use up too much (all) of the adjustment to bring the car into spec. If he does this suggests some is worn out, bent, or damaged.


Now the problem could be a worn bushing, a bent component, or even damage at the point a suspension component bolts to the car's tub. In the latter case this can only be addressed -- properly -- but putting the car on a special bench at which time the amount the critical hard point is out of position can be determined and then pulled or in some manner brought back into proper position so the car can be aligned using reasonable adjustment range or if no adjustment the alignment setting is still acceptable because the hardware is all once again properly positioned.



In one case with a car of mine on an unfamiliar road at night I hit a curb with the two left hand tires/wheels. The result was the camber of the front tire was off a bit. There was not camber adjustment. For this car I made a pair of camber bushings and installed then on my drive and then on my drive aligned the car.


Depending upon how the alignment goes, you may be faced with having to resort to special hardware (factory or aftermarket) that provides for more or even some adjustment of various alignment settings in order to bring the car's alignment into spec and provide you with the steering/handled experience you want.
 

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You should do an alignment after you put on the new tires.
You’re still experiencing pull due to worn out tires.
FYI, minor adjustments can also be done by slightly shifting the cradle.
 
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