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Hey chally, would I be risking anything driving with untuned headers and a cam for a short amount of Time? Install is only 1500, Dyno tune is 550 and 125 per hour on top of 550. Overall I think I’m looking at 4-5k overall. Installing jba long tubes (700) by my self, running open headers. For a Dyno tune I need a diablo tuner and unlocked pcm, but I was wondering if I could save a little bit and put off tuning for a week or two until a few extra paychecks hit. I doubt theirs a payment plan lol
Running without a tune can be done but you definitely want to stay out of WOT as the PE table with be off. Although if you have an auto I am not sure how MDS will handle the new cam? At part throttle, the PCM will do it's best to maintain fuel trims so engine does not lean out. Now if the cam specs were as radical as the 274 I would say good luck running it without a tune on a 5.7. Probably would have a hard time starting and running. If it were me, I would just wait until I had the funds to do everything (install and tune) at once.

Are you having the lifters replaced with non-MDS? If so the heads will have to come off, which you might as well have the headers put on then as it makes the install way easier. What about your valve springs...are they staying stock? I would run the mopar performance springs which are good for lifts as high as 0.625". When I swapping in a 6.2 cam in my 5.7 I changed the springs as well just to be on the safe side.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Running without a tune can be done but you definitely want to stay out of WOT as the PE table with be off. Although if you have an auto I am not sure how MDS will handle the new cam? At part throttle, the PCM will do it's best to maintain fuel trims so engine does not lean out. Now if the cam specs were as radical as the 274 I would say good luck running it without a tune on a 5.7. Probably would have a hard time starting and running. If it were me, I would just wait until I had the funds to do everything (install and tune) at once.

Are you having the lifters replaced with non-MDS? If so the heads will have to come off, which you might as well have the headers put on then as it makes the install way easier. What about your valve springs...are they staying stock? I would run the mopar performance springs which are good for lifts as high as 0.625". When I swapping in a 6.2 cam in my 5.7 I changed the springs as well just to be on the safe side.
I’ll be replacing all of that, the quote for everything (cam, parts, install and tune) was 6.2k. I’m just going to order my long tubes and a t2 platinum and new pcm and get a temporary online tune for running open LT’s. I’m going to save up for a while till I can afford all of the stuff for the cam.
Any suggestions for a wideband? I’m not sure what brand or what for one, from what I hear I need one for a email tune
 

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I run an innovative sports wideband only because the gauge has a shift light, boost level and AFR multifunciton. AEM also makes a nice AFR gauge which plugs into the OBD port that works quite well with HP tuners. Both systems use the bosch O2 sensor and both can be wired into the diablo tuner.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I run an innovative sports wideband only because the gauge has a shift light, boost level and AFR multifunciton. AEM also makes a nice AFR gauge which plugs into the OBD port that works quite well with HP tuners. Both systems use the bosch O2 sensor and both can be wired into the diablo tuner.
The t2 would use the OBD port right? I plan on mounting it on the windshield and keeping it there to watch things and gauges. Those 2 widebands could be wired into the T2 somehow so I could run them both from the OBD at the same time right?
 

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Just some food for thought...a magnuson supercharger with upgraded fuel pump capable of 8lb boost will cost you ~$7200 (includes tune, tuner and PCM but not install, however if you are handy can be installed by yourself over the weekend) and will get you ~120HP. Where as a the cam is running you $6200 (including install) which will net you say 80HP (giving the benefit of the doubt here). Sure, you can always add SC later but the cam will not be optimized for running one.
 

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The t2 would use the OBD port right? I plan on mounting it on the windshield and keeping it there to watch things and gauges. Those 2 widebands could be wired into the T2 somehow so I could run them both from the OBD at the same time right?
Yes, but the AEM has a pass thru connector so the T2 can plug in as well. On my T1000 I just wired the analog output of the gauge into the tuner as there was no capability to grab the signal through the OBD bus like HP tuners.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Yes, but the AEM has a pass thru connector so the T2 can plug in as well. On my T1000 I just wired the analog output of the gauge into the tuner as there was no capability to grab the signal through the OBD bus like HP tuners.
I just saw a AEM wideband Eugo, I don’t know if it’s any good but it has good reviews haha. I am going with a cam in the future just due to the sound and performance, mostly the want for the sound lol
 

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Just some food for thought...a magnuson supercharger with upgraded fuel pump capable of 8lb boost will cost you ~$7200 (includes tune, tuner and PCM but not install, however if you are handy can be installed by yourself over the weekend) and will get you ~120HP. Where as a the cam is running you $6200 (including install) which will net you say 80HP (giving the benefit of the doubt here). Sure, you can always add SC later but the came will not be optimized for running one.
Or an N2O system & tune for well less than half of either and add 100-150 hp.
 

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Yes the bottle is best bang for your buck and easiest to install...although if I had it my finger would always be on the button.
I’m starting to think that N20 might be something worth looking into depending on how a guy uses the car.
My last experience with Nitrous was 35 years ago in a street/bracket racer Camaro my dad and I built. (He built, I held the flashlight just right and handed him tools). Big fun. The N2O bottle in the trunk made me a celebrity in my little High School. Back then it was a real pain to get the bottle filled. I had to drive over an hour/drop it off at a shop/come back a week later to pick it up. But now that has all changed.

I had a big honkin red arming switch that lit up when armed mounted in the center console (wanted to impress everyone in high school - “discreet” WASN’T the objective. lol) and a Hurst T-Shifter with the “fun button” on the side. Now they all activate using WOT sensors and RPM window switches and such. I find that interesting and intriguing. Once armed you just mash the pedal and go.

I’m thinking a 10 lb bottle might give you around 2 mins of WOT (I’m guessing - something like that?). At first I thought that was very little and almost pointless. But now I’m thinking to myself - in an average sunny weekend of tooling around in my car, how much WOT do I really do? Certainly there are a few 2-4 second blasts from 20mph up to 50 - 60 here and there just for grins. Maybe a 0-60 just to play with the timer if I find an empty stretch of rural road. But that’s all I really do. The other 98% of the time I’m at partial throttle - or just accelerating in a manner such that N20 wouldn’t be needed. I don’t street race. I’m thinking I might possibly go to the track (maybe) once or twice just for fun and to re-live my younger days - but it’s not something I would regularly do at all - if ever. I generally baby the car.

So I’m thinking....hmmmmm...Cruise around in a mostly stock R/T just enjoying the ride and listening to the exhaust - and then have the option to flip the switch and have a 500+ hp (at the crank) car if I wanna burn some rubber and play.

For me, and the way I use the car, it might be a very good option.
 

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I’m starting to think that N20 might be something worth looking into depending on how a guy uses the car.
My last experience with Nitrous was 35 years ago in a street/bracket racer Camaro my dad and I built. (He built, I held the flashlight just right and handed him tools). Big fun. The N2O bottle in the trunk made me a celebrity in my little High School. Back then it was a real pain to get the bottle filled. I had to drive over an hour/drop it off at a shop/come back a week later to pick it up. But now that has all changed.

I had a big honkin red arming switch that lit up when armed mounted in the center console (wanted to impress everyone in high school - “discreet” WASN’T the objective. lol) and a Hurst T-Shifter with the “fun button” on the side. Now they all activate using WOT sensors and RPM window switches and such. I find that interesting and intriguing. Once armed you just mash the pedal and go.

I’m thinking a 10 lb bottle might give you around 2 mins of WOT (I’m guessing - something like that?). At first I thought that was very little and almost pointless. But now I’m thinking to myself - in an average sunny weekend of tooling around in my car, how much WOT do I really do? Certainly there are a few 2-4 second blasts from 20mph up to 50 - 60 here and there just for grins. Maybe a 0-60 just to play with the timer if I find an empty stretch of rural road. But that’s all I really do. The other 98% of the time I’m at partial throttle - or just accelerating in a manner such that N20 wouldn’t be needed. I don’t street race. I might possibly go to the track (maybe) once or twice just for fun and to re-live my younger days - but it’s not something I would regularly do at all - if ever. I generally baby the car.

So I’m thinking....hmmmmm...Cruise around in a mostly stock R/T just enjoying the ride and listening to the exhaust - and then have the option to flip the switch and have a 500+ hp (at the crank) car if I wanna burn some rubber and play.

For me, and the way I use the car, it might be a very good option.
Nitrous is life.
Cheaper than doing a cam swap and headers and you make more power.
Cheaper than a blower for years to come.
Completely transferable if you sell the car and want to bring the new kit over to your new car, unlike a blower.

13’ rt on a 150 with hundreds of pounds through it and an 06 charger Daytona that I’m wiring in a kit right now.


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Cost to fill a bottle? Long term cost?

A Guy
 

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I think I read $50 for a 10lb bottle. (?). That may be old info. So it’s more of a “pay as you go” type affair. Certainly could end up being expensive if you are always using it or at the track every weekend. The cost of refill would act as a deterrent to mashing the gas all the time - which might help keep me out of trouble. lol
 

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4$ a pound here in AZ. It was higher some months back when one of the places that produced it was shut down...

Still out prices the cost of a supercharger for several years even if you fill the bottle twice a month for 3 years...

But if you are like me, you spend upfront and have multiple bottles.


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So this is a great thread for me to jump in on. I currently have a 5.7 M6 car that I’ve done heads and Cam on along with headers. I’ve done all of the work and out the door I’m at $2100 for parts. I also have a pieces together Nitrous Kit that is very complete at the moment that I’m at roughly $800 invested. With that said. I race I. The MSHS for 4-5 events plus Test and Tunes here in MD. I spend roughly $3-$500 per event racing (filling 5 bottles). They point here is if you want to modify your car even doing it yourself cheap is a relative term. I’m in the process of converting to Boost because I’m very tired of $7-$8 per pound bottle fills. Plus the hassle of updating bottles for certain places.


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...I spend roughly $3-$500 per event racing (filling 5 bottles). They point here is if you want to modify your car even doing it yourself cheap is a relative term. I’m in the process of converting to Boost because I’m very tired of $7-$8 per pound bottle fills. Plus the hassle of updating bottles for certain places.
Yeah, I would think for a regular racer like yourself that boost would be more economical. Probably anything more than 1 bottle per month/Nitrous as a novelty/punch the button every now and then just for giggles (I HAD to go there! 🤣)...would be better off to spring for the blower in the long term.
 

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Lol it’s all good my friend. No blower for me. Twin 67’s are in my future.


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