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Discussion Starter #1
I've been going to Carlisle for the past three years, and have met a lot of great folks (some members of ChallengerTalk, others not) from locations near and far in relation to Carlisle, Pa. I've met Challenger owners from as far away as Canada, Massachusetts, Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, as well as those in the towns near the Fairgrounds.

What brings all these folks to this Classic Show and Swap Meet from near and far is the shared love of Mopar vehicles. The location of the show is well suited for the 2,800+ vehicles that come every year (and the number keeps growing).

You can enter your car into the "Participants Choice" car show; this lets you compete and be a judge at the same time. You vote for cars in your own and comparable classes to provide recognition and show appreciation for what you, the individual, consider the best car representing its class.

Sadly, after what one car club did last year, many of the people I've met from far away have expressed reluctance to return to the show.

In 2017, there was an organized, concerted effort by one club to rig the results of the car show. PA Modern Mopar (PAMM) was caught last year in a blatant attempt to steer votes to its members' cars in every class.

Official PAMM communications on its private website and facebook page, as well as in its advertisements for new members, engaged in fear-mongering, claiming the only way to win an award was to conspire to "block vote" as a club, and only vote for its own members' cars.





"ALL" clubs don't "do it"....let's be honest; some individuals/club members may agree to vote for each other but no club has ever been caught formally orchestrating such unfairness to the extent PAMM has gone. They know it was wrong; why else would they try to prevent disclosure of their ballots?




The Carlisle Events manager responsible for organizing the Chrysler Nationals every year was been made aware of PAMM's actions last year; he was quite upset about the whole thing and is very concerned over how the actions of this one club may impact everyone's participation and enjoyment of this event.

HERE'S WHAT YOU CAN DO:

We true enthusiasts don't attend shows to win; we attend because of the cars....but it's nice to have our cars (and our efforts working on our cars) be recognized, so...
...Promote this tag line: "vote the car, not the club". Keep it in mind as you fill in your ballot; spread this viewpoint when discussing this event before, and during, the actual event. Don't refuse to vote, or refuse to attend, because of this; don't let one club of immature/insecure car car owners ruin it for everyone.

#votethecarnottheclub
 

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You been going 3 whole years... :rolleyes:

It's nothing new.... Clubs have been doing that online since the 90's.
NEHOA generally always vote for their own, and have been since the early 80's at any event.
But they are dying off now (old age) and most don't bring modern cars, so no one cares.

PA Modern Mopar just went full retard and got caught.
But there is no real way to stop it.
 

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This happens at every event I go to from local cruise ins to nationally known shows.
Yep. I remember years back a group of mostly stock cars entered and import category and won almost all trophies based on volume.

If you're upset about "cheating" at shows, the show life probably isn't for you. Do it for the fun and the camaraderie; the plastic statues are just gravy if they come.
 

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I've been going for close to 10 years now. Last year was the first time I brought my car. I could honestly care less about the awards. I'm there for the show in general not to get a trophy. Nothing like this would deter me from going though I do agree that what they did is wrong.
 

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Not sure this is really rigging. If a group decides to get together and vote one way its on them. Now if they are paying for votes or physically metaling in the vote then find point taken. But even then its a car. Those trophies cost about $20 bucks.
 

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Unfortunately, that's the down side of a lot of car shows- rigged winners.
That's the downside to any contest where people are allowed to vote.

I've entered multiple art contests, and while my work isn't the best of the best, I've seen some real garbage win over actual works of art that clearly look like effort was put into them.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Those trophies cost about $20 bucks.
It's not about the trophy. It's the lack of integrity. There's one Challenger owner I've gotten to know via social media who traveled all the way from Georgia last year. This person takes great pride in what they've done to their car, and how well they take care of it. They take pleasure in having that time and effort recognized, but they didn't come all that way for the trophy.

However, nor did they travel almost 1,400 miles (round trip) to attend an event only to have one selfish group blatantly try to rig the results in order to be able to brag that "...their members won the most awards...".

I get it that most local-level club shows are biased, but this is one of the largest shows on the East Coast and has a national reputation (international if you include all of the Canadians who attend), and as such to have your vehicle recognized by your peers is actually an accomplishment....if recognized honestly.
 

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I get it that most local-level club shows are biased, but this is one of the largest shows on the East Coast and has a national reputation (international if you include all of the Canadians who attend), and as such to have your vehicle recognized by your peers is actually an accomplishment....if recognized honestly.
FWIW, my story above was from Carlisle :)
 

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It's not about the trophy. It's the lack of integrity. There's one Challenger owner I've gotten to know via social media who traveled all the way from Georgia last year. This person takes great pride in what they've done to their car, and how well they take care of it. They take pleasure in having that time and effort recognized, but they didn't come all that way for the trophy.

However, nor did they travel almost 1,400 miles (round trip) to attend an event only to have one selfish group blatantly try to rig the results in order to be able to brag that "...their members won the most awards...".

I get it that most local-level club shows are biased, but this is one of the largest shows on the East Coast and has a national reputation (international if you include all of the Canadians who attend), and as such to have your vehicle recognized by your peers is actually an accomplishment....if recognized honestly.


A few things to think about. When your talking about voting and specially on something that's really based on fun, this is the results you get. Voting in its self is biased, its people picking, that inherently in its self will make it biased. But with that said in order to truly get around as much biased as you can you really have to have professional judges voting on specific laid out parameters.


What I have noticed to and some of these shows people do get into others ears at time to sway votes, I wouldn't say rigged. Conversely Ive seen a lot of butthurt car owners that obviously spent a lot of time and or money on their car, but its really only cool to them and nobody else.
 

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Just go to shows to have a good time, show off your car, meet people, makes friends and a trophy is a bonus but don’t plan on getting one.
I’ve gone to the Chrysler Nationals six times and also for other brands as I’m a life long car guy and not an over the top brand loyal guy, I’ve had four dozen plus cars already and at these shows there are some braggart d-bags there, just speaking to them or looking at a car and hearing them you know what their deal is. I don’t bring my car as I don’t want to be part of a group and have to stay by my car. I do take my Jeep JK and park it but that’s as much attention as it gets from me, it’s all pretty, lifted, wheels, tires and many goodies but don’t want to hang with those guys either.
I’m not a group thinker and don’t need to be in a club, group, union or sports nuts either, just be yourself it keeps you out of conflicts.
Someone always has a faster, better, bigger, shinier car, engine etc. but the truth is they still are trying to make up for some other shortcomings they have.
 

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I've noticed this in other shows - where the participant has their club or city called out on the display card for the car.

The "locals" get votes and awards when their vehicles aren't of the same level as the "outside" competition...and it was pretty clear that was going on.

I went to hang out with others and see the show - wasn't that hung up on the trophy aspect.

But the PA club - and the messages of trying to cover up - that taking the definition of dirtbag to new levels.
 

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I've noticed this in other shows - where the participant has their club or city called out on the display card for the car.

The "locals" get votes and awards when their vehicles aren't of the same level as the "outside" competition...and it was pretty clear that was going on.

I went to hang out with others and see the show - wasn't that hung up on the trophy aspect.

But the PA club - and the messages of trying to cover up - that taking the definition of dirtbag to new levels.
How can anyone enjoy an award they didn’t truly earn? There are some real bottom feeders at some events. Imagine the values they give their children.
 

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How can anyone enjoy an award they didn’t truly earn? There are some real bottom feeders at some events. Imagine the values they give their children.
They get Participation Awards...

and we know where that is getting us...

Or the persons that get ticked off at the coaches for kid's teams because their kid isn't winning.
 

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Is it a good show? I live 20 minutes away and just picked up my first Dodge over the weekend. I have a good reason to go now ?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Is it a good show? I live 20 minutes away and just picked up my first Dodge over the weekend. I have a good reason to go now ?

If you’re a car enthusiast, this is one of the best shows to go to...

If you’re a Mopar enthusiast, this is the one show you HAVE TO go to...it’s that good.

 
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