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Hello,

I just wanted to share this with everyone as it is just about the worst experience I have EVER had.

My car has smoked a lot since day one. To that point as stated in other posts, below is what has been done in my case ( with color pictures and even some video links).

1. Day after I bought the car I was refused by every dealer to have it looked at for oil consumption. Even with the video listed below which is a compilation of SOME of the smoking, nobody would even let me start a oil consumption test. I was forced to put a lot miles real fast just to get it to the 7500 mile mark to be inspected.


2. The Service manager at Franklin Dodge in Nashville TN ( seen walking through the smoke in one of my videos had stated he "Can not reproduce. Car is normal." I mean, you can see him walking through the smoke.

3. The service Manager at Freeland Dodge in Antioch told me the car was not designed to be parked on a incline which was why it smoked on start up. He then followed me out to my car after I told him I would just pay to have the car hooked up to a POD in order to show them that it was missing due to the fouled out plugs and told me not to bring the car back to their dealership. I had tried to run me off when I went in to get copies of all invoices as well.

4. Premier Dodge of Mount Juliet TN told me that I was banned from having my car worked on at ANY South Eastern Region dealer. I recorded the whole 20 minute conversation between the service manager and service consultant. The conversation is very funny because they keep pointing at each other. I will be posting that to YouTube shortly. However, the "ban" was due to their stealing a rifle bag out of another car (Scat Pack ) while they had possession of it and leaving my car unlocked on the sales lot. The bag did not have a rifle but did have ammunition for my AR and Colt 45 in it which was worth over $100 dollars. It also contained one of my single point slings for one of my rifles as well.

5. I was able to talk Bob Freensley Dodge into letting me do the oil consumption test once I got over to them. However, after begging, they hooked it up to a POD and found that... surprise... it was missing.

6. All plugs ended up getting replaced behind that. The old head looked like those attached.

When the above was swapped out, dents in both front fenders and a large hit on the front bumper while at the dealer required the car be sent to a body shop for a repaint on the bumper and paintless dent repair. The paint is still not correct and the front bumper still shows the warp / bulge from being hit as they just smoothed it out and painted it.

7. The complete rear end was replaced due to a grinding noise on turns that was getting worse after they did the anti-friction oil. Now, even from the service manager at Bob Frensly, the car acts like either the clutch is slipping or the gear is out of a Honda. The car goes back to have the part number looked up because its not right. Either that or it was de-tuned. Although, since they thought the motor was going to be replaced the same fouled plugs got put back in.. When I dropped it off at least it was still fun to drive. Now, its just a piece of shit./


8. Steve Stander, recorded, told me that if I go Lemon Law it will just make everything harder. He stated that I should not get legal advise because they could sort it all out. I told him I was thinking of doing it anyways though because he and Mike MacDonald told me that "FCA will NEVER replace your vehicle.". He told me that was before they knew that the car had problems. Now, keep in mind I have recorded EVERYTHING. I knew that I could not trust the right thing to be done on this. I even recorded him telling me that he "Would never say such a thing. FCA would never tell you not to seek legal advice."....right. When I told him I recorded everything he got upset and said "Why would you do that? What about trust?" . Lying turd. Anyway, once they knew they had the lemon letter and I had the receipt back on it, they wanted a regional rep to go and look at the car.

The rep did not make it out until a day be fore the 10 day final notice ran out. I went and met him. Turns out that he said to replace the motor. I read his report and a new motor was to be put on order. The service manager at Bob Frensley had to put the car together agin after the inspection and told me to come by today when I called at lunch. Upon showing up, he told me corporate had told him to replace the valve cover. The stupid valve cover that is not even leaking. The regional tech is calling and trying to find what the hell is wrong. All I was told and read my self in the reply from the Power Train tech was " Replace Valve cover. We don't have a TSB for this but are trying to work on one." Well, so now FCA just makes stuff up in a TSB? I grabbed a picture of that as well. Before I got pissed I thought it was funny. But just is me, so not going to let that fly... I don't care if I have to f*ing drive to auburn Hills.


Anyway, this is the worst thing I have ever owned. The FCA execs are FING HORRID! The BBB complaint I filed they have flat out lied and said I had a attorney and would not be talking with me anymore. That's just a flat out lie. They changed it up today on the reply after I called in and explained that and said that they would not communicate with me because I filed Lemon. So, they basically said they would just ignore the law as it is in the State of Tennessee? Wow, I hope you get fined at the end of this FCA. I really will just smile if both Steve Stander and Mike MacDonald end up getting stuck inputing warranty return cores into a commodore 64 as that is truly what they should get.

While some of you may have great cars, I do not. Every time it goes in for repair it gets worse when I pick it up. I have been with out the car for over 40 days now in total. Yes, I can sue now. I have asked though for them to just do the right thing. I don't see that happening. FCA truly seem to be scum to me at this point. I have bent over backwards to gt the car fixed. When that was not working, I asked to have it replaced.

If you are reading this... by a Chevy or Ford maybe. Yeah, everywhere has a bad lemon from time to time, its what happens in production lines. It is how they deal with you that matters. Mr. MacDonald, when all this comes out in court or if you end up getting a copy, I was not threatening anyone about getting legal advice. Although, telling me that "You don't threaten us. We don't care about you. Do what you want. We don't care". I will pal, I f*ing will.



 

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Hello,

I just wanted to share this with everyone as it is just about the worst experience I have EVER had.

My car has smoked a lot since day one. To that point as stated in other posts, below is what has been done in my case ( with color pictures and even some video links ) :

1. Day after I bought the car I was refused by every dealer to have it looked at for oil consumption. Even with the video listed below which is a compilation of SOME of the smoking, nobody would even let me start a oil consumption test. I was forced to put alot miles real fast just to get it to the 7500 mile mark to be inspected.


2. The Service manager at Franklin Dodge in Nashville TN ( seen walking through the smoke in one of my videos had stated he "Can not reproduce. Car is normal." . I mean, you can see him walking through the smoke...

3. The service Manager at Freeland Dodge in Antioch told me the car was not designed to be parked on a incline which was why it smoked on start up. He then followed me out to my car after I told him I would just pay to have the car hooked up to a POD in order to show them that it was missing due to the fouled out plugs and told me not to bring the car back to their dealership. I had tried to run me off when I went in to get copies of all invoices as well.

4. Premier Dodge of Mount Juliet TN told me that I was banned from having my car worked on at ANY South Eastern Region dealer. I recorded the whole 20 minute conversation between the service manager and service consultant. The conversation is very funny because they keep pointing at each other. I will be posting that to youtube shortly. However, the "ban" was due to their stealing a rifle bag out of another car ( scat pack ) while they had possession of it and leaving my car unlocked on the sales lot. The bag did not have a rifle but did have ammunition for my AR and Colt 45 in it which was worth over $100 dollars. It also contained one of my single point slings for one of my rifles as well.

5. I was able to talk Bob Freensley's Dodge into letting me do the oil consumption test once I got over to them. However, after begging, they hooked it up to a POD and found that... suprise... it was missing.

6. All plugs ended up getting replaced behind that. The old head looked like those attached.


When the above was swapped out, dents in both front fenders and a large hit on the front bumper while at the dealer required the car be sent to a body shop for a repaint on the bumper and paintless dent repair. The paint is still not correct and the front bumper still shows the warp / bulge from being hit as they just smoothed it out and painted it.

7. The complete rear end was replaced due to a grinding noise on turns that was getting worse after they did the anit-friction oil. Now, even from the service manager at Bob Frensly's, the car acts like either the clutch is slipping or the gear is out of a Honda. The car goes back to have the part number looked up because its not right. Either that or it was de-tuned. Although, since they thought the motor was going to be replaced the same fouled plugs got put back in.. When I dropped it off at least it was still fun to drive. Now, its just a piece of shit./


8. Steve Stander, recorded, told me that if I go Lemon Law it will just make everything harder. He stated that I should not get legal advise because they could sort it all out. I told him I was thinking of doing it anyways though because he and Mike MacDonald told me that "FCA will NEVER replace your vehicle.". He told me that was before they knew that the car had problems. Now, keep in mind I have recorded EVERYTHING. I knew that I could not trust the right thing to be done on this. I even recorded him telling me that he "Would never say such a thing. FCA would never tell you not to seek legal advice."....right. When I told him I recorded everything he got upset and said "Why would you do that? What about trust?" . Lying turd. Anyway, once they knew they had the lemon letter and I had the receipt back on it, they wanted a regional rep to go and look at the car.

The rep did not make it out until a day be fore the 10 day final notice ran out. I went and met him. Turns out that he said to replace the motor. I read his report and a new motor was to be put on order. The service manager at Bob Frensley's had to put the car together agin after the inspection and told me to come by today when I called at lunch. Upon showing up, he told me corporate had told him to replace the valve cover. The stupid valve cover that is not even leaking. The regional tech is calling and trying to find what the hell is wrong. All I was told and read my self in the reply from the Power Train tech was " Replace Valve cover. We dont have a TSB for this but are trying to work on one." Well, so now FCA just makes stuff up in a tsb? I grabbed a picture of that as well. Before I got pissed I thought it was funny. But iut is me, so not going to let that fly... I dont care if I have to f*ing drive to auburn Hills.


Anyway, this is the worst thing I have ever owned. The FCA execs are FING HORRID! The BBB complaint I filed they have flat out lied and said I had a attorny and would not be talking with me anymore. Thats just a flat out lie. They changed it uptoday on the reply after I called in and explained that and said that they would not communicate with me because I filed Lemon. So, they besically said they would just ignore the law as it is in the State of Tennesse? Wow, I hope you get fined at the end of this FCA. I really will just smile if both Steve Stander and Mike MacDonald end up getting stuck inputing warranty return cores into a commodore 64 as that is truely what they should get.

While some of you may have great cars, I do not. Every time it goes in for repair it gets worse when I pick it up. I have been with out the car for oaver 40 days now in total. Yes, I can sue now. I have asked though for them to just do the right thing. I dont see that happening. FCA truely seem to be scum to me at this point. I have bnent over backwards to gt the car fixed. When that was not working, I asked to have it replaced.

If you are reading this... by a Chevy or Ford maybe. Yeah, everywhere has a bad lemon from time to time, its what happens in production lines. It is how they deal with you that matters. Mr. MacDonald, when all this comes out in court or if you end up getting a copy, I was not threatening anyone about getting legal advice. Although, telling me that "You dont threaten us. We dont care about you. Do what you want. We dont care". I will pal, I f*ing will.



the smoking hellcat - YouTube

Sorry about your dealership "experiences".



FCA has no say in it if the dealers don't want to play ball.


90% of car dealerships are run by greedy scumbags who hire other scumbags to lie to their customers about being unable to fix their shit.



If you think Ford or Chevy dealers will be any different, have at it, you're just going to be more disappointed.


Good luck, I wish you the best in court, I hope you find a decent lawyer, most of them are lazy ****s.
 

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Oh, I imagine they are all the same. FCA, though, holds a special place in my heart.
 

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Wow, sorry to hear about all of your troubles and hope that they get resolved.

I feel lucky that my 2009 SRT had almost no issues. I think, back then, when the survival of Chrysler was in question, the Brampton factory workers took tremendous pride in producing the new Challenger. Now, after 10 years, it's just another car that rolls down the assembly line.
 

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I must have shopped 20 scat packs before I bought my 17 used. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE did that same start up smoke when new. My used one does not, buy maybe its because its broken in?? Have you tried a catch can to see if that helps?

Another note. I personally know a guy that reached out to the head of SRT through email, and that person was able to get FCA to buy back his HC for WAY LESS issues than you are having. You need to email the big chief over there. They take great pride in the hellcats and their reputation. There are stories of the SRT people approving warranty engine swaps for people that have clearly modified and raced their cars. But for some reason SRT loves the culture and does support the owners. See if you can dig up the email for Ralph Gilles or Steven Beahm.

Another note. By your writing(ranting), I sense some attitude. No offense but if you go on the offensive with these back water dealer *******s, you will probably get no help whatsoever. The dealer service mentality is to push back just about all warranty work unless its glaringly obviously broken and warrantable. My rule of thumb is if you hear a noise, and its intermittent, then let it get loud and really cause a problem. That way you can bring it in and there is no question something is wrong.

In your case, i'd drive that car so ****ing hard. I'd either have a blast with it, or torch the motor in the process. If there was a problem from the start, it will make itself known eventually. But honestly the start up smoke thing is very common and probably a byproduct of not properly seated rings. I'd just get a catch can setup and drive that beast like I stole it. Im sure this goes against your grain, but its all you have left now. Everything has been documented, and if it does fail then you have it stated it started very early.

Or you can just do what most of us would do and just trade out of it. Get a ZL1 and move on with your life. Try getting ahold of the SRT people. They are very generous to their HC and Demon owners. NOT FCA, but the SRT people.
 

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Smoking on start up. To me it always screams valve guides and seals. It was and still is a common problem in higher mileage SBC that I know so very well. Not at all sure how common it is in a modern Chrysler engine........but somehow after shut down oil that hasn't made it's way back into the "pan" makes it's way into a cylinder or cylinders. Usually from above and this the most common way that happens.

it's a long way from the end of the engine but it does need to be fixed. The deposits in the CATs and fouled plugs and combustion chambers are no ticket to the 707HP this engine should be making. Quite the opposite. It's easy to imagine the computer seriously retarding timing to prevent detonation.....that's a sure power and MPG killer even if it does protect the engine itself from harm.

i can't believe you're having so much trouble getting this one fixed. Your video is all the proof any dealer or mechanic should need ........it's blatantly obvious to anyone who can see it that there is a problem here.
 

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I must have shopped 20 scat packs before I bought my 17 used. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE did that same start up smoke when new. My used one does not, buy maybe its because its broken in?? Have you tried a catch can to see if that helps?

Another note. I personally know a guy that reached out to the head of SRT through email, and that person was able to get FCA to buy back his HC for WAY LESS issues than you are having. You need to email the big chief over there. They take great pride in the hellcats and their reputation. There are stories of the SRT people approving warranty engine swaps for people that have clearly modified and raced their cars. But for some reason SRT loves the culture and does support the owners. See if you can dig up the email for Ralph Gilles or Steven Beahm.

Another note. By your writing(ranting), I sense some attitude. No offense but if you go on the offensive with these back water dealer *******s, you will probably get no help whatsoever. The dealer service mentality is to push back just about all warranty work unless its glaringly obviously broken and warrantable. My rule of thumb is if you hear a noise, and its intermittent, then let it get loud and really cause a problem. That way you can bring it in and there is no question something is wrong.

In your case, i'd drive that car so ****ing hard. I'd either have a blast with it, or torch the motor in the process. If there was a problem from the start, it will make itself known eventually. But honestly the start up smoke thing is very common and probably a byproduct of not properly seated rings. I'd just get a catch can setup and drive that beast like I stole it. Im sure this goes against your grain, but its all you have left now. Everything has been documented, and if it does fail then you have it stated it started very early.

Or you can just do what most of us would do and just trade out of it. Get a ZL1 and move on with your life. Try getting ahold of the SRT people. They are very generous to their HC and Demon owners. NOT FCA, but the SRT people.
My 392 has just 1,100 miles on it and it does not and has never done that on start up.

Besides, even if some VERY SMALL amount of smoke at start up were as commonly seen as you suggest.......it's hard to imagine it would pass emissions.

But setting that aside......what he reveals in his video is way too much oil burnt to call it "normal" or "reasonable to expect" I
 

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My 392 has just 1,100 miles on it and it does not and has never done that on start up.

Besides, even if some VERY SMALL amount of smoke at start up were as commonly seen as you suggest.......it's hard to imagine it would pass emissions.

But setting that aside......what he reveals in his video is way too much oil burnt to call it "normal" or "reasonable to expect" I
Aye.

The part about attitude in the post you were replying to wasn't needed either. It's frustrating, it's apparently been a long process. I think most people would be rather irritated by now dealing with the Dealers and FCA.

Yes, more bees with honey than vinegar and all that, but I don't know that I could be Mr. Happypants when being lied to and given the run around.
 

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I still don't understand why dealerships fight warranty claims..... They get "paid" by FCA Corporate, don't they? I would think they (dealerships) would be on the customer's side fighting for claims to be validated/approved by FCA in order to get the work AND associated cost reimbursement. Am I missing something here ?
 

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Wow, sorry to hear about all of your troubles and hope that they get resolved.

I feel lucky that my 2009 SRT had almost no issues. I think, back then, when the survival of Chrysler was in question, the Brampton factory workers took tremendous pride in producing the new Challenger. Now, after 10 years, it's just another car that rolls down the assembly line.
An assembly line worker would have no way of knowing about a bad valve seal, or a head gasket. Heck an engine builder would not know if they got a batch of bad seals or gaskets until they fail.
 

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I still don't understand why dealerships fight warranty claims..... They get "paid" by FCA Corporate, don't they? I would think they (dealerships) would be on the customer's side fighting for claims to be validated/approved by FCA in order to get the work AND associated cost reimbursement. Am I missing something here ?
They fight warranty claims because FCA pays very little book hours for tasks that usually take the techs longer. A dealership mechanic gets paid based on how many book hours they cram into a day or week. If you get a job that has 4 book hours and its takes you two, then you are in the pluses and you can take on more work. At the end of the day you worked 8 hours but might have booked 12 hours of work. Now what happens if you spent 8 hours working on a job that only pays 4 book hours. Thats where these complicated jobs get fought back by writers and techs. Its not worth their time to try and diagnose your cry baby issue if its going to cost them. Yes thats the mentality and it sucks for all parties involved. The techs are looking for the big book hour jobs, that take less time. Thats usually not chasing down some startup smoke into a motor of a car that otherwise runs and drives normal. Their side is lose-lose. And if you have some sort of mod installed, thats their out. Customer service takes a back seat to money. And they also conveniently go deaf and blind too in these instants.

I had a bad rear end whine/vibration from a mustang I had that was completely stock and under warranty. Car had maybe 7k miles. Writer, manager and tech all claimed there was no sound. I took out all three and CLEARLY heard it over and over. They all claimed it was nothing. It even vibrated the rear view mirror it was so bad. Well guess what they ordered a new mirror and replaced that....LOLOL

Dealer #2 heard the sound and ordered a new drive shaft. Replaced it under warranty and noise/vibration gone. Funny thing, the new mirror from the original dealer fell off the window about 1k miles later...LOL
 

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An assembly line worker would have no way of knowing about a bad valve seal, or a head gasket. Heck an engine builder would not know if they got a batch of bad seals or gaskets until they fail.
You are right. I was referring to the overall build quality.

The engine was supposed to be tested before it left the Saltillo plant in Mexico and was shipped to Brampton. I wonder why the problem was not detected then?

Check out the following video at the 33.18 minute mark.

 

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The hardest part of owning any brand/model car is...…………………...finding and having a GOOD dealer. They are out there, but not the easiest to find in some areas.


A bad dealer can make the ownership part of the car go south very quickly.


Best of luck to the OP
 

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The hardest part of owning any brand/model car is...…………………...finding and having a GOOD dealer. They are out there, but not the easiest to find in some areas.


A bad dealer can make the ownership part of the car go south very quickly.


Best of luck to the OP
This is where your attitude comes into play. You need to treat them like you are asking for their help. Especially in instances like this. No dealer is obligated to do your warranty work. And as much as you'd like to walk in there with the "customer is always right" attitude, you need to be humble. They will most likely extend past where they normally would to help. And in my experience, I would tip the tech and writer. On follow up visits, they couldnt do enough for me to get the car right, cared for and washed to perfection at pickup. Money talks. So does your attitude. Im no angel, but in this environment you need to play ball. Hell a $50 tip to the tech got me a new trans covered under warranty on a 07 C6 corvette I had with a blower installed. You dont need to beg, but respect and being humble goes a very long way. And you can extend that with a little green nudge...

:smile:
 

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This is where your attitude comes into play. You need to treat them like you are asking for their help. Especially in instances like this. No dealer is obligated to do your warranty work. And as much as you'd like to walk in there with the "customer is always right" attitude, you need to be humble. They will most likely extend past where they normally would to help. And in my experience, I would tip the tech and writer. On follow up visits, they couldnt do enough for me to get the car right, cared for and washed to perfection at pickup. Money talks. So does your attitude. Im no angel, but in this environment you need to play ball. Hell a $50 tip to the tech got me a new trans covered under warranty on a 07 C6 corvette I had with a blower installed. You dont need to beg, but respect and being humble goes a very long way. And you can extend that with a little green nudge...

:smile:

Yep, and oh SO true.


I worked for a few dealers decades ago, and things haven't changed. A customer coming in with an attitude, head strong and already fighting everything, got the VERY slow course to resolve. If a person is going to act like a jackass right off the bat, we used to see how big their veins in their forehead could get...…….slowly.


Myself, I'm a very mild mannered guy. However, if a dealerships employee cops an attitude and turns into a jerk weed on me, they'll find out what my "other side" is really like. It ain't pretty, as one Regional Rep can attest, as he lost his job jerking me around. I let him slowly walk himself into a corner, and he thought that he was winning a claim denial. He finally turned into a smart ass with me, and then it was my turn. He was GONE by the end of the week.


The dealer that I was working with actually thanked me. They stated that he was pretty much a worthless punk, who prided himself on denying warranty claims, pissing off customers, and putting the dealer on the spot many times with unhappy customers.


So yes, a good cordial attitude is key in getting a warranty issue resolved, and save the hammer for last resort if it's needed,
 

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Aye.

The part about attitude in the post you were replying to wasn't needed either. It's frustrating, it's apparently been a long process. I think most people would be rather irritated by now dealing with the Dealers and FCA.

Yes, more bees with honey than vinegar and all that, but I don't know that I could be Mr. Happypants when being lied to and given the run around.
Yeah, you definitely have my sympathy on this one. A Hell Cat is not a high end car and Dodge not the big profit margin brand where it's in the company interest to be Kissing owner ass ......so I wouldn't expect the real White Glove treatment........ but getting lied to or the "blow off" for this problem is completely unacceptable.

Dodge sells this car on the strength of it's performance........if ever there was ONE COMPONENT that should be "RIGHT" and without problems from the start.......it's the heart of the machine and reason you pay a little more coin for this one vs. a more "standard issue" Challenger.

That 707HP engine......nobody promises it'll be completely indestructible over time but no way in hell should it be less that STRONG and TROUBLE FREE in it's first year of regular use.

Tell me you've been taking it to the drag strip on a regular basis and I could cut Dodge a break but if it's a street driven car that only occasionally sees a few hard BLASTS of acceleration on street tires......this is WAY TOO EARLY to be seeing problems like this and the dealer is balking at fixing them.
 

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This is where your attitude comes into play. You need to treat them like you are asking for their help. Especially in instances like this. No dealer is obligated to do your warranty work. And as much as you'd like to walk in there with the "customer is always right" attitude, you need to be humble. They will most likely extend past where they normally would to help. And in my experience, I would tip the tech and writer. On follow up visits, they couldnt do enough for me to get the car right, cared for and washed to perfection at pickup. Money talks. So does your attitude. Im no angel, but in this environment you need to play ball. Hell a $50 tip to the tech got me a new trans covered under warranty on a 07 C6 corvette I had with a blower installed. You dont need to beg, but respect and being humble goes a very long way. And you can extend that with a little green nudge...

:smile:
Yep money talks ,, I take my Challenger to the Dealer for oil change , tires rotation,service
Like to have a paper trail because I have the lifetime warranty from Dodge
Always tip the the guy 20.00 ask him to take care of Green Girl,,
Never a problem
 

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I still don't understand why dealerships fight warranty claims..... They get "paid" by FCA Corporate, don't they? I would think they (dealerships) would be on the customer's side fighting for claims to be validated/approved by FCA in order to get the work AND associated cost reimbursement. Am I missing something here ?

Dealerships are not the end decider on warranties as a prior poster believes. Corporate is the boss. As far as warranty claims, I was a supervisor at a large Ford dealership for five years back in 2001-06. I also processed warranty claims for their body shop. Corporate had the last word on what was warrantable or not. We had to send a description of the problem and photos and wait for approval. I never turned away a legitimate warranty claim by a customer. Work is work. Now there were some unscrupulous customers who would damage their vehicles then come in and try to get it fixed under warranty like the guy who chewed up his truck bed with gravel and bricks then tried to tell me the paint was peeling all on it's own. Or the guy who wanted an aftermarket bumper he put on, warrantied. I only know of the processes with Ford at that time not other makes, but the flat rate for repairs then was $44. The warranty rate paid by Ford was $78 per hour. Good for the dealership. But the techs got the same rate either way which was $16.50 hour. Corporate sets the time needed to make the repair so if you're good or you want to cut corners you will make money. If you are slow or take your time to do it right you don't make much money, which is the whole flaw in the system. It's not set up to do right by the customer.
Now on the other side as a customer of another brand, I discovered from a tech, with all the defects they have, the dealerships were discouraged by corporate from doing warranties if they could blow off the customer. Hence the ever present "functioning as designed" phrase I heard for all the defects those vehicles had.
As far as tips go, I tried that a couple times. Once I gave the service advisor a tip and told him to split it with the tech. His reply was that the techs don't need the money, they'll get him lunch. The second time, the service advisor didn't do squat for me but argue with me that the vibration in my 6-SPEED Challenger was caused by the MDS. Even after I had them call corporate since the service advisor, tech and service manager insisted 6-speeds had MDS, they discovered that the customer actually knew what he was talking about, they still signed off the fix as "MDS functioning properly" and of course got paid from FCA for the time. So I gave up on the tip thing.
 
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