Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been working on breaking-in my 2020 R/T... It drives great in Sport Mode, but in Default mode, it sucks! MDS comes on when I'm idling through my neighborhood at less than 1500 rpm. It also feels like it may be idling in 2nd gear, as the car travels way too fast for idling speed. What is that all about? If I try to drive in Default Mode, it seems like it doesn't want to come out of 3rd or 4th gear, or whatever gear it's in. I don't want to lug the engine, so I have to shift back to Sport Mode to prevent this from happening. Frustrating!

Have any of you experienced the same?

My 2016 didn't do this btw. Default mode was basically the same as sport, except that the rpm's didn't hang as long. MDS activated only when I was traveling at highway speed... 50/60 mph, cruising.
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
7,995 Posts
Sounds Like it is behaving as designed, even if it’s not behavior that’s especially desired.

There is some learning adaptives at work in the TCM that will adapt to your driving habits over time. Perhaps driving spiritedly for a while will yield more desirable behavior from the shifts.

BTW, the computer won’t let the engine lug, it will kick down to avoid that. So no need to worry you are allowing harm by letting the car decide when to shift.

It may aggravate the driver to no end, but the car won’t harm itself in its quest for more MPGs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F8HemiRT

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Sounds Like it is behaving as designed, even if it’s not behavior that’s especially desired.

There is some learning adaptives at work in the TCM that will adapt to your driving habits over time. Perhaps driving spiritedly for a while will yield more desirable behavior from the shifts.

BTW, the computer won’t let the engine lug, it will kick down to avoid that. So no need to worry you are allowing harm by letting the car decide when to shift.

It may aggravate the driver to no end, but the car won’t harm itself in its quest for more MPGs.
That's part of the problem... it's not kicking down. Feels like it's staying in 2nd/3rd gear with the foot off of the accelerator. MDS activating at 1500 rpm? My 2016 never did such things.
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
7,995 Posts
That's part of the problem... it's not kicking down. Feels like it's staying in 2nd/3rd gear with the foot off of the accelerator. MDS activating at 1500 rpm? My 2016 never did such things.
Im not intimately familiar with the A8 TCM tuning for shifts, but as long as you are above 1000 RPM and either applying steady throttle or off and coasting, it is programmed to hold the gear. Once you begin to increase the amount of throttle applied, it will downshift, but not if it’s a gentle acceleration. It would still hold the gear and leave MDS activated I’m thinking.

As far as when the MDS kicks in, I believe the only parameters are above 20 mph and steady or no throttle. Once those two are met, it can and likely will engage MDS.

I’ve got the A5 trans in both my 5.7Ls, so the behavior is a little different in terms of shift points, or it was anyway. The MDS mode bothers me so much I have it deactivated. I also have all the shift points and firmness settings adjusted to my liking, but that’s not really applicable here. I mention only to illustrate how much I dislike the factory programming for such behavior.
 

·
Registered
2016 Challenger R/T Plus Shaker
Joined
·
148 Posts
As Nuke said above, the eight speed adapts to the driver's style of driving. It also adapts to the wear of internal parts, and inputs from the PCM and other ECUs. It may take some time to get the transmission to shift like you want. If you feel that you have driven it for too many miles and it still seems to operate incorrectly, take it to the dealership. A fix may be as simple as a TCM flash. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
The "Default" Auto Mode is absolutely terrible for driving on a daily basis.

As soon as I hop in, I either flip it over to Sport Mode or Track Mode. I would say about 80% of the time I drive in Track, and 20% of the time in Sport Mode.

The same rule applies to every other car I have owned or driven... 500 ABARTH, Audi RS3, GC SRT392, Challenger SRT392... the list goes on and on.

The Auto Modes are simply terrible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The "Default" Auto Mode is absolutely terrible for driving on a daily basis.

As soon as I hop in, I either flip it over to Sport Mode or Track Mode. I would say about 80% of the time I drive in Track, and 20% of the time in Sport Mode.

The same rule applies to every other car I have owned or driven... 500 ABARTH, Audi RS3, GC SRT392, Challenger SRT392... the list goes on and on.

The Auto Modes are simply terrible.
My 2016 Challenger default mode was awesome! Drove in default 90% of the time. I will report back today; post Dodge service appointment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,346 Posts
Agree, I use default street mode in the SRT 90% of the time and works great so not sure what the issue was.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2018 Scat Pack SHAKER in Plum Crazy
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
I prefer default, I do select "Sport" frequently, but I probably go M mode more often.
Odd thing in a Cadillac SRX we used to have, I HATED how and when if shifted, Normal, or "Sport", but actually "ECO" mode was the most drivable, very odd. It ran great but never was in sync with how I though an auto should shift otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Just got back from Dodge.

The first guy who looked at it is an idiot. His professional opinion was; "I think you've been using auto-stick, and the transmission didn't like that." :rolleyes: I didn't bother responding... I motioned for him to get out of my car, and then asked for the service manager. I gave the SM a brief rundown; which included pulling fuse #31. He said; "Any time you do that, you need to also disconnect the battery." After explaining what was happening, he said that it sounded to him like it was stuck in its "shipping mode" setting. He talked with a diagnostics guy who agreed that it needed to be looked at. It was not stuck in "shipping mode".

He then sent his top transmission guy out to talk with me... The tech tried to convince me that all was okay, without even so much as a simple code read. I insisted that something is amiss, and that he needs to check for codes + flash the TCM. He wasn't nasty about it... I think he just didn't want to spend time on a new project. We went back and forth for a minute or two; which resulted in a code check and TCM flash.

Note: I snuck in through the back garage entrance to watch the process, but got caught! :cool:

45 minutes later... He comes around the corner in my R/T 50 shaking his head "no"... :oops: He said that Dodge would not let him flash the TCM, because there are no updates available. Makes sense, I guess? I then asked; What about flashing the TCM with the most current OEM parameters? He insisted that he couldn't get the TCM to download any information from Dodge. I told him that I would take it back to the house and remove the negative battery connection; which is what I should have done when I pulled fuse #31. I didn't know about this step when I pulled it.

So I proceed to leave the lot (in default mode), and the car was shifting exactly like it did when I first purchased it! I think that by attempting to flash the TCM, the OEM software was reset to its post "ship mode" setting. One thing that's still an issue (with me), is the speed and RPM in which the MDS activates. My best guess is that my 2016 R/T had been tweaked using a bi-directional scan tool (or) Dodge changed the TCM programming between 2016 and 2020. Same goes with the MDS activation parameters. In any regard, it's back to its bad-ass self! :)
 

·
Registered
2016 Challenger R/T Plus Shaker
Joined
·
148 Posts
I have found that if the software is up to date, then the factory WiTech will show no updates available now. In times past, that was not always the case, and we could choose to overwrite current software with the same software. This was useful if there was any questions about software issues in the ECU. It sometimes resolved a problem. If nothing else, you knew that you had other issues to fix if the flash didn't help. Glad you got your Challenger sorted out.
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
7,995 Posts
Just got back from Dodge.

The first guy who looked at it is an idiot. His professional opinion was; "I think you've been using auto-stick, and the transmission didn't like that." :rolleyes: I didn't bother responding... I motioned for him to get out of my car, and then asked for the service manager. I gave the SM a brief rundown; which included pulling fuse #31. He said; "Any time you do that, you need to also disconnect the battery." After explaining what was happening, he said that it sounded to him like it was stuck in its ship mode setting. He talked with a diagnostics guy who agreed that it needed to be looked at.

He then sent his top transmission guy out to talk with me... The tech tried to convince me that all was okay, without even so much as a simple code read. I insisted that something is amiss, and that he needs to check for codes + flash the TCM. He wasn't nasty about it... I think he just didn't want to spend time on a new project. We went back and forth for a minute or two; which resulted in a code check and TCM flash.

Note: I snuck in through the back garage entrance to watch the process, but got caught! :cool:

45 minutes later... He comes around the corner in my R/T 50 shaking his head "no"... :oops: He said that Dodge would not let him flash the TCM, because there are no updates available. Makes sense, I guess? I then asked; What about flashing the TCM with the most current OEM parameters? He insisted that he couldn't get the TCM to download any information from Dodge. I told him that I would take it back to the house and remove the negative battery connection; which is what I should have done when I pulled fuse #31. I didn't know about this step when I pulled it.

So I proceed to leave the lot (in default mode), and the car was shifting exactly like it did when I first purchased it! I think that by attempting to flash the TCM, the OEM software was reset to its post "ship mode" setting. One thing that's still an issue (with me), is the speed and RPM in which the MDS activates. My best guess, is that my 2016 R/T had been tweaked using a bi-directional scan tool (or) Dodge changed the TCM programming between 2016 and 2020. Same goes with the MDS activation parameters. In any regard, it's back to its bad-ass self! :)
Pulling fuses or unhooking the battery can cause the TCM to reset any adaptives learned about your driving behavior. So that can be a good thing if you don’t like how it’s acting, or it can be a bad thing if you do like how it’s acting.

Either way, at least you got it resolved to some extent. That’s always a good thing. 👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: 68Coronet

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I forgot to mention that something else changed after his failed attempt to flash the TCM. All of the apps that I had moved to the bottom of the screen (for quick access) were back into their original screen positions. Makes me wonder if he flashed the system, but for whatever reason, didn't want say?

I've got this running on Challenger ****** as well. More exposure, just in someone else runs into the same issue.
 

·
Registered
2016 Challenger R/T Plus Shaker
Joined
·
148 Posts
It may be that the technician did an "ECU reset" when he found that the software was up to date. I have had to do that on occasion to get some ECUs to function properly. Also, you may need to re-pair your phone to the U Connect to maintain hands free phone capabilitiy.
 

·
Premium Member
2014 Challenger SRT Core
Joined
·
553 Posts
You don't have 500 miles so the sport function is locked out and that is why it keeps going into MDS mode.
 

·
Registered
19 Challenger R/T Destroyer Gray
Joined
·
75 Posts
IMO MDS is beyond annoying. If I could tune it out of the PCM I would. On the freeway I use manual mode - it locks out MDS, but you have to remember to shift it if you change speed.
Around town it's fine. If it kicks in and I don't want it a quick stab at the go-pedal and it goes back to 8cyl.
The good news is that if your A8 is working properly, it's a wonderful automatic - always in the right gear, seamless shifts. One of the best auto's I've ever driven out of my fifty-car driving career.

I just installed the Khaos AES simulators (deletes) so the exhaust is always open. It's great overall, will keep the mufflers so it's not too loud, but MDS is worse. Now you can really hear it when it kicks in. Oh well. LOL
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top