[chizzle1]

In preparation for a large procharger, and since I'm having problems running 93 pump gas on the stroker, I'm converting over to E85.
So far the budget is looking to be right around $1200, not counting the tune (if I can't get it dialed in myself) and a few hours of my time.
This should fix the problem I'm having with the 426 squeezing the fuel too much and causing pre-detonation at lower rpms, and some people seem to think I'll get a little more power since I can ramp the timing up more with E85.

The list:
$619 Fore Fuel Hat with single 450 pump (expandable to duel pump later)
$219 BBK billet fuel rails
$185 Aeromotive pressure regulator
$50 Stainless braided fuel line
$75 -8 & -10 an fittings
$40 12 AWG wiring & relays

I'll be switching over to a 60 psi return style system using -8 line for the feed and return, the factory fuel regulator in the tank will be capped.
I have read that some people say the BBK rails are garbage, if that's the case I'll return them and go with a set from Arringtons, Speedlogix, or another vendor.
The 52# Deatschwerks injectors I originally installed when I built the 426 are large enough to handle the E85 NA up to 600hp, once I go forced induction I'll need to upsize to 112# injectors (and beefier valve springs).

Pics to follow once I get the parts together and start installation.

 

[MiHiHemi]

With E85, get ready to be intimate with your local gas station Have you considered water/meth injection?

 

[chizzle1]

With E85, get ready to be intimate with your local gas station Have you considered water/meth injection?

Not really, the knock is happening at part throttle and I'm not sure I could setup methanol to work like that.
At 14 mpg average I already frequent the gas station

I had a 50/50 shot of this thing running on pump gas, but the compression ratio is right at the limits of what 93 can handle.
Once I go forced induction I'm shooting for 15-20 pounds of boost, E85 will make life easier (I think).

 

[A Guy]

I thought you were done? >

A Guy

 

[chizzle1]

I thought you were done? >

A Guy

me too :grin2:

I am getting the car setup for boost one day in the distant future...and might get a little more power from the E85.
The supercharger will absolutely be on the back burner for a while, I can't drop $9k on the car while I have 1 in college and 1 in grade school.

 

[chizzle1]

The fuel rails came in, and they look to be a quality product.
I was a little concerned that the fittings on each end were only -6 but it appears that is the standard size (I checked other vendors and their rails were similar).
The fuel hat should be in tomorrow, it will take me a little while to manufacture the wiring & relays needed to for the larger pump.
I could not see paying $250 for some loom, wiring, and a relay so I don't mind waiting a few days until I get time to put it together.

The most time consuming (and expensive) part of this process so far has been trying to figure out exactly how many of each type and size AN fittings I need.
I'll probably lay the entire setup out on the bench and make sure I have everything before I start the installation.

I need to double the original estimate for line and fittings.

more to follow.

 

[BeyondUno]

I'm also in the works to change everything out and going e85. I have been trying to get a list down of exactly what I need. Do you need the fore hat or is that something you just opted for to later upgrade? I'm already running a 450 Walbro and wiring/relays are upgraded. All I really need is the correct fuel lines and maybe switch the 6.1 to the fore fuel rails. Could you let me know what fuel lines you went with and length I've been so lost lol.

 

[chizzle1]

I'm also in the works to change everything out and going e85. I have been trying to get a list down of exactly what I need. Do you need the fore hat or is that something you just opted for to later upgrade? I'm already running a 450 Walbro and wiring/relays are upgraded. All I really need is the correct fuel lines and maybe switch the 6.1 to the fore fuel rails. Could you let me know what fuel lines you went with and length I've been so lost lol.

I went with the fore hat for ease of installation, and it (pump) was already setup for E85.
I am ordering 15 feet of -8 and -10 braided hose, probably more than I need but rather too much than not enough - plus I'm having to locate my fuel pressure regulator towards the front of the engine bay.
You will also need to add about 30% more fuel to the tune and new injectors (if they aren't rated for E85).

 

[BeyondUno]

I'm also in the works to change everything out and going e85. I have been trying to get a list down of exactly what I need. Do you need the fore hat or is that something you just opted for to later upgrade? I'm already running a 450 Walbro and wiring/relays are upgraded. All I really need is the correct fuel lines and maybe switch the 6.1 to the fore fuel rails. Could you let me know what fuel lines you went with and length I've been so lost lol.

I went with the fore hat for ease of installation, and it (pump) was already setup for E85.
I am ordering 15 feet of -8 and -10 braided hose, probably more than I need but rather too much than not enough - plus I'm having to locate my fuel pressure regulator towards the front of the engine bay.
You will also need to add about 30% more fuel to the tune and new injectors (if they aren't rated for E85).

Thank you for the reply, yeah I have id1000s and a 450 Walbro. I won't be running e85 but would like to have everything ready to be able to run it once I have my built transmission. I figured I didn't need much length for the fuel lines. Did you purchase the braided hose's from summit? Those are the one's I've been looking at myself.

 

[chizzle1]

Thank you for the reply, yeah I have id1000s and a 450 Walbro. I won't be running e85 but would like to have everything ready to be able to run it once I have my built transmission. I figured I didn't need much length for the fuel lines. Did you purchase the braided hose's from summit? Those are the one's I've been looking at myself.

I haven't purchased the lines yet, but those are the ones I'm going with. I have a 08 CTS (customer car) to finish before I can start on mine.

 

[chizzle1]

the fuel hat arrived and it looks great.
I called MMX about how to plug the factory feed lines and they said there is a device made by Fore that I need to allow the fuel from the pass side tank to circulate to the driver side.
Does anyone know what this is called and where I can get it?

edit: disregard, i found the items needed on Fore's website. I would think MMX would offer these as they are required to use the setup I ordered.
https://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/2-910.htm

 

[Ronan978]

I ran full content e85 on my 392 with nothing other than ID1000’s and a tune. Really loved the lack of knock. The low end torque picked up quite a bit as well. I’m in the midst of gathering a content sensor and gage to go e85 now on my 426.


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[us1champ]

the fuel hat arrived and it looks great.
I called MMX about how to plug the factory feed lines and they said there is a device made by Fore that I need to allow the fuel from the pass side tank to circulate to the driver side.
Does anyone know what this is called and where I can get it?

edit: disregard, i found the items needed on Fore's website. I would think MMX would offer these as they are required to use the setup I ordered.
https://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/2-910.htm

Modern muscle isn’t the best at communication
I had several Issues when I bought 5 grand worth of motor parts from them they send the wrong pushrods and the threw a fit when I asked to talk to Dave ( Chris is the one that answers the phone ). Then they complained about shipping stuff nda to me when I need it as the engine builder was on the phone with them explaining the issues. And the engine is in the stand sitting taking up time and money for there builds

I will NEVER EVER BUY OR RECCOMEND them ever again. Service is horrible and they really only care about big builds that get promotion for them out of it


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[chizzle1]

I ran full content e85 on my 392 with nothing other than ID1000’s and a tune. Really loved the lack of knock. The low end torque picked up quite a bit as well. I’m in the midst of gathering a content sensor and gage to go e85 now on my 426.

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Your car is a lot newer than mine, I didn't want to chance the 10 year old fuel lines and the tiny rail cross-over line on deteriorating.
The tuner I use said I should pick-up between 25-35 hp with the timing using E-85, I'm currently at 500hp 530tq to the wheels.

Modern muscle isn’t the best at communication
I had several Issues when I bought 5 grand worth of motor parts from them they send the wrong pushrods and the threw a fit when I asked to talk to Dave ( Chris is the one that answers the phone ). Then they complained about shipping stuff nda to me when I need it as the engine builder was on the phone with them explaining the issues. And the engine is in the stand sitting taking up time and money for there builds

I will NEVER EVER BUY OR RECCOMEND them ever again. Service is horrible and they really only care about big builds that get promotion for them out of it


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yeah, I'm starting to figure that out.
I definitely recommend Fore Innovations :thup: they took the time to answer my questions and emailed me a schematic to help with the wiring setup.

Summit also provided outstanding customer service, I ordered all the fittings and line yesterday.
They ensured I had o-ring and flare ends where needed, cross-referenced Summit parts to save me some cash, and offered a veteran discount.
Summit has always been good to me.

So the plumbing should be here Friday, I'm attaching a image of the parts I ordered.
The regulator is by Holley and most of the rest is Summit brand.

I still need to put the wiring kit together, I picked some 12 AWG wire and a 20 amp relay yesterday.

More to follow.

 

[Ronan978]

Your car is a lot newer than mine, I didn't want to chance the 10 year old fuel lines and the tiny rail cross-over line on deteriorating.

The tuner I use said I should pick-up between 25-35 hp with the timing using E-85, I'm currently at 500hp 530tq to the wheels.




Those are pretty stout numbers , you should definitely see a good jump in power. Dollar for hp/tq I think e85 is a win win. Then you factor in the lack of knock and it’s even better. The only reason I stopped using it is it was very temperamental when the temperature drops. So for me it’s about April through October and I’m good. The other thing to consider is having a content sensor, gage, and a flex tune , reason is from what I’ve seen the pump e85 is not consistent. The barrels are a little pricey too. I’ve seen a few guys buying the e98 by the barrel and filling up e85 at the pump then getting the content up by adding the e98. Just things to consider.


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[chizzle1]

Your car is a lot newer than mine, I didn't want to chance the 10 year old fuel lines and the tiny rail cross-over line on deteriorating.

The tuner I use said I should pick-up between 25-35 hp with the timing using E-85, I'm currently at 500hp 530tq to the wheels.




Those are pretty stout numbers , you should definitely see a good jump in power. Dollar for hp/tq I think e85 is a win win. Then you factor in the lack of knock and it’s even better. The only reason I stopped using it is it was very temperamental when the temperature drops. So for me it’s about April through October and I’m good. The other thing to consider is having a content sensor, gage, and a flex tune , reason is from what I’ve seen the pump e85 is not consistent. The barrels are a little pricey too. I’ve seen a few guys buying the e98 by the barrel and filling up e85 at the pump then getting the content up by adding the e98. Just things to consider.


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The knock is the main reason I'm converting, too much compression for 93. I can't really use 6th gear without getting knock unless I'm going 85+.

I've been watching the forums in my area (central Texas) and it seems HEB has pretty consistent E85 fuel, some of the members have used devices to measure (like this one https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1211-do-it-yourself-e85-testing/) and it's ranged from 83-86% ethanol.
Additionally I'll back it off 1-2 degrees for daily driving, just to make sure.
WOT tuning is not too hard, only took me 6-10 pulls to get AFR & timing dialed in.
I take it to the tuner I trust to make it more user friendly (part throttle driving).

 

[Ronan978]

Absolutely, I’m currently using Aj (hemituner) and couldn’t be more pleased. I’m going back in the next week or so to swap for a 6.1 manifold and put my id1000’s back in for a new dyno tune and talk about the e85. Right now with the 426 and their cam , I couldn’t be happier with the drivability. Really curious to see what kind of gains it’ll make on e85.


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[chizzle1]

Absolutely, I’m currently using Aj (hemituner) and couldn’t be more pleased. I’m going back in the next week or so to swap for a 6.1 manifold and put my id1000’s back in for a new dyno tune and talk about the e85. Right now with the 426 and their cam , I couldn’t be happier with the drivability. Really curious to see what kind of gains it’ll make on e85.


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if you have the time and the tools port match the 6.1 intake and have it powder coated.
The powder coating improves airflow by removing a lot of the rough surface and the port matching reduces turbulence.
I did this and was pleased with the results, and the looks.

 

[GreeninTN]

Powdercoat the inside! Thats a neat trick I never would have thought of.

 

[Ronan978]

I’ve actually been porting my owners well. I did all the flash casting already and opened up the TB opening, I’m just waiting on my gasket to port match those. The heads have already been ported and gasket matched as well. As far as the powder coating, I think it may be beneficial as far as heat dissipation, and definitely looks awesome, but on the inside the rough surface is irrelevant as it is a boundary layer, so long as all the flash cast is ground down. Similar to a polished head that nowadays people are dimpling instead for the better atomization of fuel. The intake side of the engine can be rough to the touch , the air touching the surface is kind of like lube for the air passing through(if that makes any sense), however on the exhaust side polishing can help with less build up of carbon.


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