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Discussion Starter #1
Just curious to know what sort of ballpark figures anyone can come up with on what it would cost to build an SE out to outperform a 392:

- 2011 SE base
- change out the suspension to match or exceed the SRT8 (eg Eibach coilovers)
- add Brembo or Stop-Tech brakes
- drop in a Mopar 426 aluminum crate w/all forged parts, and if possible variable intake like on the 392
- add in the standard 392 airbox or a 2011 mopar CAI
- solo exhaust

Some questions for any builders that may know:
- Would it be possible to have the same EVIC pages made available as on the SRT8? (Perhaps by first flashing with an SRT8 firmware?).
- What other issues, if any, might there be matching the electronics up w/the crate motor

I'm guessing a project like this is not economical, and that just getting a factory 392 makes the most sense. But for entertainment's sake, how bad would such a project be?


And to top off the crazy idea:
- would it be then possible to take the removed Pentastar V6 and use it to replace the wimpy 3.7L V6 in my Nitro... ? (all sorts of possible issues I'm sure...)
 

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It would be a lot cheaper to just get the 392.
 

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the 392 challenger cost $25000 more than the SE. he can get a trans, 226mm rear end setup,bout PCM and wire harness for about 5k. don't need brembos for anything other than a road coarse.

there is nothing better than an all aluminum 426 hemi SE challenger.

and yes, all of the SRT features can be added to the base SE. look at mine. i have the SRT performance pages in the EVIC too.
 

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dont change the suspension.....somebody correct me if im wrong but i think the se setup is better than the srt or the rt...check out someones handling or twisty times...
 

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Oh for the love of 'EFF

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THE CRAPPIEST TRIM OF A CAR AND TRY TO SUP IT UP!????

If you have the money, buy an R/T or SRT-8 and mod THAT. Hell, why not take a 6.1L which is a damn BARGAIN these days compared to a 392 and tweak it to the moon!???

I just don't understand you people sometimes...

As if you need to go THAT low on the trim level to be a "sleeper", I thought we already discussed how bad the Mustang and Camaro guys are kicking us around; these days it feels like JUST HAVING A CHALLENGER makes it a sleeper sometimes!

It's like instead of taking a pro-athlete and putting him on steroids, you want to take a functionally retarded kid and put him in a rocket powered wheel-chair!

Why would you waste your time and energy taking an SE and trying to figure out how to make it perform like a 392!??? DODGE ALREADY DID THAT FOR YOU! IT'S CALLED THE SRT 392!!!!

:notallthere:





(P.S. Please refrain from getting up-tight about the way I phrased those comments, insert tongue-in-cheek)
 

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Oh for the love of 'EFF

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THE CRAPPIEST TRIM OF A CAR AND TRY TO SUP IT UP!????

If you have the money, buy an R/T or SRT-8 and mod THAT. Hell, why not take a 6.1L which is a damn BARGAIN these days compared to a 392 and tweak it to the moon!???

I just don't understand you people sometimes...

As if you need to go THAT low on the trim level to be a "sleeper", I thought we already discussed how bad the Mustang and Camaro guys are kicking us around; these days it feels like JUST HAVING A CHALLENGER makes it a sleeper sometimes!

It's like instead of taking a pro-athlete and putting him on steroids, you want to take a functionally retarded kid and put him in a rocket powered wheel-chair!

Why would you waste your time and energy taking an SE and trying to figure out how to make it perform like a 392!??? DODGE ALREADY DID THAT FOR YOU! IT'S CALLED THE SRT 392!!!!

:notallthere:





(P.S. Please refrain from getting up-tight about the way I phrased those comments, insert tongue-in-cheek)

since you don't understand, no point in explaining it.
 

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Great Idea ! Do it. ! Se is lighter than the SRT or RT. and havein less inside is not a problem. Its much eaiser to sh!t can a bunch of interior and do you own flavor, not worrieing about the wasted money. I was just thinking of the same. Do a rear half in the car. A good ol Moser narrowed 9in ford rear end with a 4 link, and track locator, your rockin ! Full cage, gut the car. Keep the a/c of course. Way to go IMO
Real Pro Street car. Dyno Steve at RDP is building a Pro Street Challenger now.
FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh for the love of 'EFF

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THE CRAPPIEST TRIM OF A CAR AND TRY TO SUP IT UP!????
First: There is no such thing as a "crappy" trim on the Challenger. Period. It's the exact same g.d. sheet metal in all of them.

Second: Dodge charges a hefty premium for essentially just having the bigger motor--thus it's not too far fetched to think you could swap in an even bigger motor yourself for close to the same amount of money you would spend just plonking down $45+k for a 392. Yes, the brakes and suspension components are costlier, but even with swapping them out you may wind up spending close to the same (esp. if you can sell off the replaced parts and recoup something for them...)

Third: It's a *project*. If it floats your boat, *that's why you do it*. No one needs any more reason than that. Even if it costs money or takes time--it's their money to spend how they choose and it's their time to choose what they do in it. It's simply the price of entertainment for some people.

Finally: In my original post I specifically acknowledged that it is probably not an economical thing to do, and specifically asked *despite that* even if just for kicks if people would help estimate what it would cost to do and what gotchas are involved.

I wasn't inviting yet another SE vs SRT8 flame-fest. So please, can we keep the thread on topic?
 

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Just curious to know what sort of ballpark figures anyone can come up with on what it would cost to build an SE out to outperform a 392:


GE CJ610-6 Jet Engine, $45,000 on Ebay (link) 3,000 or so pounds of thrust, about 400 lbs so good weight to power ratio. Doesn't have the afterburner (civilian model) so would probably want to add some nitrous, a catch can, and get a custom tune.






 

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Discussion Starter #11
It would be a lot cheaper to just get the 392.
But if the end goal is an aluminum 426, wouldn't buying a 392 to start with cost a lot more? (Even selling off the 392 wouldn't help as much I don't think because I'm convinced Dodge is charging extra margin and not just covering the extra cost between trim levels.)
 

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Discussion Starter #12


GE CJ610-6 Jet Engine, $45,000 on Ebay (
link) 3,000 or so pounds of thrust, about 400 lbs so good weight to power ratio. Doesn't have the afterburner (civilian model) so would probably want to add some nitrous, a catch can, and get a custom tune.
LOL.
And don't forget the asbestos racing suit.
Bat-mobile here we come!
 

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LOL.
And don't forget the asbestos racing suit.
Bat-mobile here we come!
Heck I keep an asbestos suit just for this forum! I probably wouldn't go this route though... Jay Leno probably already has one.

On the more realistic side, you can get a Mopar crate 472 Hemi making around 500ish for about $15,000.00, put a driveline behind it and you could sure have some fun. Arrington has a 440 making 600ish for about $15,000 as well.

Arrington 440 // Didn't link to the Mopar Crate 472 (they aren't a sponsor).
 

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I think you would be money ahead buying an SRT-8 and stroking it... if you insist on making it look like an SE, buy a rear valance and hang it on there, and strip the SRT markings. Good luck hiding it as a v-6 once it's fired up..
 

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the 392 challenger cost $25000 more than the SE. he can get a trans, 226mm rear end setup,bout PCM and wire harness for about 5k. don't need brembos for anything other than a road coarse.

there is nothing better than an all aluminum 426 hemi SE challenger.

and yes, all of the SRT features can be added to the base SE. look at mine. i have the SRT performance pages in the EVIC too.
How do you go about adding the performance pages to a 2011 EVIC? Can this be done?
 

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Theres alot more involved than dropping in an engine... And theres alot more to an srt than just a big engine... You would save a lot of money trading in on an srt.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Theres alot more involved than dropping in an engine... And theres alot more to an srt than just a big engine... You would save a lot of money trading in on an srt.
What exactly? (this question is the point of the thread)
My understanding is:

- engine & related computer differences
- intake
- exhaust
- suspension parts
- brake parts
- differential

What other major differences are there?
Certainly not:
- transmission
- sheet metal
- paint
- wheels and tires (easy to change out the 18"s w/20x9s)
- radio
- seats (you can get leather in the SE just the same)

Switching it to manual would obviously require buying a clutch and transmission as well--but selling off a brand new 5-speed might cover that.

Also, I'm not talking about trading anything in--just what would be involved in turning a base SE into a mean aluminum 426 gen-III Hemi-powered sleeper, using the performance that the 392's equipment provides as a baseline for comparison to the final result.
 

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I'm not 100%, there are threads that people have talked about it before. You pretty much have to gut the car as far as computers, wiring, hardware and I do believe the transmission is not 100% the same. Do a search here or on lxforums, you'll find everything needed.
 

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...what other issues, if any, might there be matching the electronics up w/the crate motor. I'm guessing a project like this is not economical, and that just getting a factory 392 makes the most sense. But for entertainment's sake, how bad would such a project be?
You pose an interesting question, and I agree with your gut reaction that the project is not economical and also with your concern about the electronics. I'm am guessing - emphasis on guessing! - that you would need new matching electronics to go with the crate engine. That could be big $$$ for both parts and labor. I am also assuming you will want electronic fuel injection rather than a carb.

FIRST COMPARISON: 392 SRT vs Crate 392 SE
I started with this comparison because it is easy to make. Even setting aside thorny issues about warranty, resell value and emission inspections with the crate engine, it is immediately clear the factory 392 SRT is a clear winner over dropping a crate 392 into a SE.

1. Checking Edmunds, the market value for a base 2011 SE is $24,623 while the market value for a base 2011 SRT is $43,825. This means you have about $19,200 to play with.

2. Crate iron block 392 complete with electronic fuel injection and plug and play electronics is about $17,000 before shipping and installation. So by the time you get the motor installed, you are already spending more, and haven't addressed transmission, drive shaft, differentials, brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, interior, etc. So this comparison has a clear winner in letting Dodge do the work, which is what you would expect.

SECOND COMPARISON: ALUMINUM 426
This is where things aren't as clear. Hopefully those with more knowledge around the subject can provide better / firmer details. The SRT owner still has to buy the crate 426 and pay to have it installed. Balanced against that is a SE will probably need electronics and who knows what else to get the drive train to work right. So there will be more labor on a SE swap than a SRT swap. How much more labor? Hard to say, but it could mount up fast, and I would not want to go into a project like that unless you have a firm price from an experienced vendor.

Finally, it occurs to me the most economical / low risk home for a new aluminum 426 would be a nice used 6.1 SRT? With the 392 out, the 6.1 can be purchased well worth the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You pose an interesting question, and I agree with your gut reaction that the project is not economical and also with your concern about the electronics. I'm am guessing - emphasis on guessing! - that you would need new matching electronics to go with the crate engine. That could be big $$$ for both parts and labor. I am also assuming you will want electronic fuel injection rather than a carb.

FIRST COMPARISON: 392 SRT vs Crate 392 SE
I started with this comparison because it is easy to make. Even setting aside thorny issues about warranty, resell value and emission inspections with the crate engine, it is immediately clear the factory 392 SRT is a clear winner over dropping a crate 392 into a SE.

1. Checking Edmunds, the market value for a base 2011 SE is $24,623 while the market value for a base 2011 SRT is $43,825. This means you have about $19,200 to play with.

2. Crate iron block 392 complete with electronic fuel injection and plug and play electronics is about $17,000 before shipping and installation. So by the time you get the motor installed, you are already spending more, and haven't addressed transmission, drive shaft, differentials, brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, interior, etc. So this comparison has a clear winner in letting Dodge do the work, which is what you would expect.

SECOND COMPARISON: ALUMINUM 426
This is where things aren't as clear. Hopefully those with more knowledge around the subject can provide better / firmer details. The SRT owner still has to buy the crate 426 and pay to have it installed. Balanced against that is a SE will probably need electronics and who knows what else to get the drive train to work right. So there will be more labor on a SE swap than a SRT swap. How much more labor? Hard to say, but it could mount up fast, and I would not want to go into a project like that unless you have a firm price from an experienced vendor.
I appreciate the analysis, and it seems a reasonable conclusion.


Finally, it occurs to me the most economical / low risk home for a new aluminum 426 would be a nice used 6.1 SRT? With the 392 out, the 6.1 can be purchased well worth the money.
The reason I wanted to play with a 2011 chassis in this experiment is to get the newer, revised suspension geometry. I'm not so sure changing something like that would be easy to get right let alone even possible to change at all.

So, from the posts so far, it sounds like no matter which route, to get an aluminum gen III 426 hemi in a challenger chassis is gonna cost well over the current price of a 392 after all is said and done, no matter where you start from. The only thing that would change that is if Dodge did it themself. The only exception would be by buying a discounted 2010 (eg the FF mentioned that was recently discounted $12k), which may come close to covering the engine swap (after also counting selling the replaced 6.1L), but most likely wouldn't be enough to also cover the costs to update the suspension to equal 2011.
 
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