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Discussion Starter #1
So I've put a ton of time and effort into the sound system in my 15 scat pack and just CANNOT get it the sound I think it is capable of.

Here's the setup:

Stock 8.4 Head unit with EQ FLAT and no surround etc.
Running through Rockford Fosgate DSR1 sound processor (in place of stock amp)
this then hands off to 3 amps:
600w 2 channel <-> Dash = Infinity Reference REF-3022cfx 3-1/2" 2 ways
1000w 4 channel <-> Doors = Infinity Reference REF-6522ix 6-1/2" 2ways
Same amp also <-> Rear deck and sides Rockford Fosgate R152-s component speakers (with inline filter for the highs)
500w Alpine MRP <-> 2 12" Xplods in a ported (30hz) enclosure

It can definitely get LOUD but just really can't dial it in to sound clean.

I guess my main question is regarding the crossovers on all channels. I have the LPF and HPF filters OFF on the amps and am doing all of the filtering on the sound processor.
There are 8 channels that can be crossed over so where would you guys suggest I set those LPF HPF or BPF's? It's Dash / Doors / Rear / and Subs. I know the 80hz-120hz range for the subs is pretty standard - I just am kind of trial and erroring on the rest.

There's also a LOT of EQing possibilities but I want to get the crossovers perfect before that.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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I know there are folks that offer email setups for DSPs, kinda like an email tune for the engine. Have you considered going that route to get the DSR1 dialed in?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No. I've actually not seen that. I figured with so many variables a 'canned tune' would be tough.
 

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I used to run the DSR-1 in my 2018 Challenger - with the same Infinity Reference speakers. I believe I settled on 450hz crossovers between doors and dash speakers. I ran the rear deck speakers as band-limited, reduced volume "rear fill" speakers (80hz->4khz, I believe). I never had a real sub though - just a JBL BassPro SL powered under-seat sub.

I no longer run the DSR-1 or the Infinity speakers, but I probably do still have my last tune file if you are interested. I will say though, I was never 100% happy with the Infinity Reference 3.5" speakers in the dash. I did get better results when I replaced them with the Kenwood KFC_XP-6903C component set - they are fantastic speakers for the price (6x9 midbass and 3.5" coaxial dash component set).

Let me know if interested in my last DSR-1 tune file. It may or may not work for you though - everyone hears different and has different preferences.
 

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As a suggestion, I would replace the doors with 6x9 mid bass only over the 6.5 coax. As mentioned, cross them over around 60-80 on the bottom, 500-800 on the top end depending on what is in the dash. While you are in the panel, add some sound deadening if you haven't already. This will make a huge difference. Having a tweeter in the door as well as the dash is throwing it off. Don't need much if anything in the rear. I ran 6.5 mid bass in my door and it didn't get it. Changed to 6x9 ( which is really an 8") and it woke my system right up. Sealing up the door with a 6x9 and sound deadening will add a bunch of mid-bass to the front stage and you want to get the mids and highs up in front of you. If you don't have a volume/gain control for your subs up front, add one. You will thank me later. Good bass makes or breaks a system in my opinion. Then start playing with the DSP. You can drive yourself crazy with a DSP so try and get it close before using the DSP to dial it in. Turn the rears off and dial in the fronts, add in the sub, then add in the rears as "fill". Use the sub volume control between songs to add/cut depending on what you are listening to.

For now, 6.5 in your doors I would run them around 80-100 on the bottom and cut the upper around 500-800.
Dash crossed over around 500-800 on up. You may need to go up to 1K between the door and dash depending on the speakers.
Subs around 80-100 depending on enclosure and subs.
Rears play with but I would bandpass them between 100-5k.
Get your amp gains set correctly.
Then EQ fronts, bring in subs, then rears
Then play with time alignment if you want. Keep in-mind, time alignment to the driver will cause the passenger to suffer. Time align to center between seats if you have a passenger most times with you.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
As a suggestion, I would replace the doors with 6x9 mid bass only over the 6.5 coax. As mentioned, cross them over around 60-80 on the bottom, 500-800 on the top end depending on what is in the dash. While you are in the panel, add some sound deadening if you haven't already. This will make a huge difference. Having a tweeter in the door as well as the dash is throwing it off. Don't need much if anything in the rear. I ran 6.5 mid bass in my door and it didn't get it. Changed to 6x9 ( which is really an 8") and it woke my system right up. Sealing up the door with a 6x9 and sound deadening will add a bunch of mid-bass to the front stage and you want to get the mids and highs up in front of you. If you don't have a volume/gain control for your subs up front, add one. You will thank me later. Good bass makes or breaks a system in my opinion. Then start playing with the DSP. You can drive yourself crazy with a DSP so try and get it close before using the DSP to dial it in. Turn the rears off and dial in the fronts, add in the sub, then add in the rears as "fill". Use the sub volume control between songs to add/cut depending on what you are listening to.

For now, 6.5 in your doors I would run them around 80-100 on the bottom and cut the upper around 500-800.
Dash crossed over around 500-800 on up. You may need to go up to 1K between the door and dash depending on the speakers.
Subs around 80-100 depending on enclosure and subs.
Rears play with but I would bandpass them between 100-5k.
Get your amp gains set correctly.
Then EQ fronts, bring in subs, then rears
Then play with time alignment if you want. Keep in-mind, time alignment to the driver will cause the passenger to suffer. Time align to center between seats if you have a passenger most times with you.
Awesome input. Thank you. I do actually have the subs running through the pac audio level knob up front...after having it I dont think I'll ever go back!

I will definitely look into 6x9's as I agree...I dont think they're cutting it.
 

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Oh sorry - I misread the original email. I thought that you already did have Infinity Reference 6x9 speakers in the door. Now I understand that they are 6.5" Infinity Reference speakers in the door. Yes, definitely change to 6x9's - they are MUCH better for bass.

That being said, finding dedicated midbass 6x9 speakers isn't that easy. Most inexpensive 6x9's are coaxial. There are really only a few good dedicated 6x9 midbass speakers sold individually (not as part of a component set). Although, since you are using a DSP, you will be running active and any tweeter on the 6x9 will not be being used anyway (it will be disabled via the way of a crossover), so a coaxial 6x9 will work fine as well.

If you are looking to stay on the affordable side, I'd still recommend the Kenwood KFC-XP6903C component set (6x9 dedicated midbass and 3.5" coaxial for the dash). You won't find a better set of speakers for the price. They drop right in without any modifications and also come with foam that forms a sort of "fast ring" to seal the 6x9 to the door panel. They also have the best affordable 3.5" speaker.

If you want higher end dedicated midbass 6x9's, you have the AudioFrog GS690 (~$330) or the Hybrid Audio Unity 6x9's (over $400). The Illusion Audio C3CX are about the best 3.5" coaxials you'll find (they're actually 3" and require a custom baffle to be made).

if you want a higher end 3.5" coaxial, really the only one that I'm aware of is the Illusion Audio C3CX "coincident" coaxial (basically, it's a "point source" coaxial, where the tweeter and woofer come from the same point). They are about $700 a pair though. I just recently installed a pair and am in the process of retuning.

I would personally recommend the crossover between the door and dash to be between 250hz and 500hz. There is a huge "dip" in the door bass response in the Challenger around 600hz-700hz that you'll avoid by going with a crossover of 500hz or lower. I'm currently testing a 275hz crossover with my Illusion Audio C3CX's and so far I really like it (was using 350hz). I'd recommend using 24dB Linkwitz-Riley slopes for everything to help keep phase aligned at the crossovers - and would definitely recommend using time alignment for best results. Worst case, if you have frequent passengers, use two different presets - one for when you are the only one in the car and one for when you have passengers. Although, switching presets is painfully slow with the DSR-1.
 

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Oh sorry - I misread the original email. I thought that you already did have Infinity Reference 6x9 speakers in the door. Now I understand that they are 6.5" Infinity Reference speakers in the door. Yes, definitely change to 6x9's - they are MUCH better for bass.

That being said, finding dedicated midbass 6x9 speakers isn't that easy. Most inexpensive 6x9's are coaxial. There are really only a few good dedicated 6x9 midbass speakers sold individually (not as part of a component set). Although, since you are using a DSP, you will be running active and any tweeter on the 6x9 will not be being used anyway (it will be disabled via the way of a crossover), so a coaxial 6x9 will work fine as well.

If you are looking to stay on the affordable side, I'd still recommend the Kenwood KFC-XP6903C component set (6x9 dedicated midbass and 3.5" coaxial for the dash). You won't find a better set of speakers for the price. They drop right in without any modifications and also come with foam that forms a sort of "fast ring" to seal the 6x9 to the door panel. They also have the best affordable 3.5" speaker.

If you want higher end dedicated midbass 6x9's, you have the AudioFrog GS690 (~$330) or the Hybrid Audio Unity 6x9's (over $400). The Illusion Audio C3CX are about the best 3.5" coaxials you'll find (they're actually 3" and require a custom baffle to be made).

if you want a higher end 3.5" coaxial, really the only one that I'm aware of is the Illusion Audio C3CX "coincident" coaxial (basically, it's a "point source" coaxial, where the tweeter and woofer come from the same point). They are about $700 a pair though. I just recently installed a pair and am in the process of retuning.

I would personally recommend the crossover between the door and dash to be between 250hz and 500hz. There is a huge "dip" in the door bass response in the Challenger around 600hz-700hz that you'll avoid by going with a crossover of 500hz or lower. I'm currently testing a 275hz crossover with my Illusion Audio C3CX's and so far I really like it (was using 350hz). I'd recommend using 24dB Linkwitz-Riley slopes for everything to help keep phase aligned at the crossovers - and would definitely recommend using time alignment for best results. Worst case, if you have frequent passengers, use two different presets - one for when you are the only one in the car and one for when you have passengers. Although, switching presets is painfully slow with the DSR-1.
So I mightve jumped the gun a bit but after your first post I started poking around crutchfield.com and Amazon and ordered the Infinity Reference 9630cx Component set (6x9) as well as sound deadening mat.

I now see your second response and would probably have gone with the Kenwood set but we'll see how these sound.

I'll likely stick with the 3.5's that are in the dash now, and not use the hard crossover that comes with the new set. Just keep using the DSP to handle.

Thoughts?
 

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So I mightve jumped the gun a bit but after your first post I started poking around crutchfield.com and Amazon and ordered the Infinity Reference 9630cx Component set (6x9) as well as sound deadening mat.

I now see your second response and would probably have gone with the Kenwood set but we'll see how these sound.

I'll likely stick with the 3.5's that are in the dash now, and not use the hard crossover that comes with the new set. Just keep using the DSP to handle.

Thoughts?
That should be a good start. Not sure how much mat you got but the more, the better. You will want to remove the plastic vapor barrier between the panel and door. You also want to apply the mat inside the door as much as you can especially behind the speaker. Clean before you apply. Use a small wooden roller to really get it stuck. Heat helps but it's hot enough out now so you should be good if you leave it in the sun for a few minutes but make pealing the plastic a little harder. Use a heat gun if you need to soften the mat up but be careful with wiring. Again, get as much as you can inside the door. I was able to get almost the entire inside of the door. At least all the flat parts! Once you finish that, now apply to the metal surface behind the door panel. The whole thing! Not past where the panel sits though. Basically, cover where the factory plastic vapor barrier was. Use the wooden roller and the handle to work to edges. Can't stress this enough, work the hell out of it to get "FULL" adhesion. It's a royal pain but get every nook and cranny and cover all holes and overlap the seams. You will need to trim around each of the holes to allow for the panel fasteners to sit flat on the metal. Those holes will get plugged by the fasteners. You will need to work around the door lock bar some. I put extra pieces on the back side to keep the sticky part from grabbing the rod. Sticky side to sticky side where there is no metal. Roll the edges over right around the rod. You will see what I am talking about when you get at it. The goal is to seal up the door as best as you can. Think sealed sub box as that is the goal. One continuous piece across the whole thing or overlap the pieces but close up over the big holes. I even double or triple layer over the big holes to stiffen up to make the door more like a wooden sub enclosure. You are building a sealed sub enclosure for an 8".
Looking at the magnet on that 6x9, you will need to heat up the factory plastic mounting frame/splash guard with a heat gun and bend out the pinched part to form a round arch. You will need a good set of gloves so not to burn your fingers. Take your time so you don't bugger it up over heating. Some wood can help work the plastic out so not to burn fingers. Test fit the new speakers into the frame to make sure they sit flat and there is a little space between the magnet and plastic. You want to use the factory frames because they help keep the water off the back of the speaker and they are angled and pull the speaker right to the backside of the door panel which is very important. Install the speaker and check clearance with the window but you should be fine. I used bolts and lock nuts in place of the factory rubber pinch hardware now that there is sound control on the metal. Last thing I would suggest, run some loose foam weather stripping around the edge of the speaker about 1/4-1/2 thick. Just on the edge and not on the actual surrounds of the speaker. There are 6x9 foam kits that are cheap if you want to go that direction. Roadkill is a good option. The goal here is to keep the sound from bouncing around between the door and the back of the door panel. Again, think sealed sub box as that is what you are trying to accomplish. The more attention to detail here, the better the outcome you will have. And once this is done, you can try different 6x9s by a simple 4 screw swap in a few minutes. If you end up getting the 6x9 foam kit, install the center foam of the kit directly behind the speaker inside the door. This will aid in absorbing some of the back wave. Plan on a full day to do this if not two. It is a royal pain in the ars to do this but you will have a huge reward when you are done.You will now have a bunch more mid bass. Cross them around 60 as a starting point. You will have to play with the upper cross over depending on how good the 3-1/2's are and how loud you play it.

As another option, you may want to try stuffing some foam under the dash speakers. Stuff it all up in there but try to leave a little bit of air space. A 3 1/2 doesn't need much air space but you will have to play with it. Absorbing a good bit of the rear wave should help as sound is bouncing all around under the dash as it's pretty open under there.

Good audio starts will a good install and attention to detail. DSP's help correct issues but it is a much better plan to correct the issue right from the start. It's like painting a car. Your paint job is only as good as your prep job.

When you get to the DSP, start with just the doors and dash. You will notice a good amount of bass now and sound a lot fuller up front. You will find that you don't need as much sub anymore unless you just want to hammer but that is what to dash mount sub volume control is for. Play with the crossovers first. Different drivers respond differently with crossover settings. As an example, I currently am running my CDT HD 6x9's from 60 to around 800-1000 with passive crossovers. I have CDT Unity 7.5 octave 2" in the dash running up from the door crossover along with a center channel running around 400 and up passively off the front left and right channels with a volume control on the crossover board. Blends very well. Sound stage is right up in front where it should be. A lot harder to do passively than with a DSP though. Then work on EQ settings to help level out you peaks. You want to cut more than add and will need to blend those in one or two steps up and down in the frequency range. Then work on time alignment. Baby steps with DSP/ EQing. A good mic and software will help but is not the end all be all. Some peaks and valleys you are just not going to get out. The shape of the car is a never ending fight that you can't really do anything about. After you make some changes, give it a week before you make another round of changes to give yourself time to adjust. Get it close with a mic and software then tweak it to your liking and music type. It's a rabbit hole, so keep that in-mind.

Before you start, tap the outside of your doors and remember what they sound like. After you Dynamat the doors, tap again!
Don't forget about the trunk. You are beating the hell out of it with subs so that is the next phase!

God Speed!!!
 

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So I mightve jumped the gun a bit but after your first post I started poking around crutchfield.com and Amazon and ordered the Infinity Reference 9630cx Component set (6x9) as well as sound deadening mat.

I now see your second response and would probably have gone with the Kenwood set but we'll see how these sound.

I'll likely stick with the 3.5's that are in the dash now, and not use the hard crossover that comes with the new set. Just keep using the DSP to handle.

Thoughts?
The 6x9 from that component set will probably be fine. The Kenwood set it just kind of nice because the 6x9 drops right in without any modifications and is a great midbass speaker - midbass for days. Also - the Kenwood 3.5" speaker is fantastic (which can also be bought separately - KFC-X3C). You will probably want to replace the 3.5" dash speakers though - you'll get a big improvement by doing that since the stock dash speakers are just a single paper-cone driver - no tweeter - so you're missing plenty of highs with the stock speakers. These were my first-even Kenwood speakers and I have been very impressed for such an inexpensive set of speakers.

However, to really get the most out of your system and the DSP, you'll want to get a USB MIC so that you can measure the system response, in order to properly EQ the system. I'm not going to lie - it take a lot of time and research to learn how to properly tune a DSP system, but if you're into that sort of thing (I am), it's a very rewarding experience - and can make dramatic improvements in your system. I'd go as far as saying that the DSP is just as important as speaker selection. Todays DSP's are so powerful and can really make the difference between an OK system and a fantastic system. I can guarantee that there is not a single "Sound Quality" competitor that doesn't run a DSP nowadays. They really are that powerful and can make a huge difference in the overall sound quality of a system. Time alignment and very powerful EQ alone can really transform a system.

It definitely is a rabbit hole though. :) And an expensive one at that.

diymobileaudio[dot]com and caraudiojunkies[dot]com will be your new best friends. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Huge thank you for your responses!

Just finished up kilmat'ing both doors inside and out as well as installing the 6x9's. All I can say is WOW.

I band passed the doors 60 to 500 and MAN. What a difference!

This definitely brought the stage up front and the distance settings on the DSP really fine tuned it.

Thank you all again!
 
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