Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok I have been using an obdII Bluetooth device for some time. I use an app called TORQUE. This thing works very well.
So I noticed a couple things. First the throttle position is off. At idle its around 13% and WOT is 86%. On torque it will tell you peddle tp and also manifold tp. Both are 86%. I do know its not very often you will see 100% at the peddle but at the throttle body this needs to be 100% at WOT. So since both are the same it must be set up that way in the PCM. Also you know how we have a slight hang coming back down to idle? well it being 13% may have something to do with that and I do not see a hang of the throttle body when letting off the throttle. It will come right back to 13% . Also at idle my A/F is around 13.8:1, this is a little too lean but I know its this way for the government mandated pollution crap. I have not monitored WOT or part throttle yet. Also a cool feature is HP and TQ at the wheels. I did not have it set up this morning to play with that. If you want to play with the app, down load it from the app store. I use TORQUE PRO and do not know what all you can monitor on the free version.
Also I noticed that it seems all the sport mode for engine does is add sensitivity to the peddle. When you put engine in sport mode your throttle position changes, so say your at 40 mph and your throttle position is 20% with sport mode off, turn it on it goes to 22% , it changes 2 % that I can tell, so with on you get a little kick, let off to keep that 40mph then your TP will be back at the original 20% like it was before turning sport mode on. So kind of like what the peddle commander does. The WOT and Idle position does not change with sport mode on or off. Also you can get a plug in toi monitor knock. It will tell you if you do have it and at what rpm and what the timing was at the time of the knock and how much timing was pulled when it did see a knock. There is a ton of things it will log and monitor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Very interesting....

But explain this to me like I'm 2yo please....what do I need to plug into the port for this app to communicate with the car?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Very interesting....

But explain this to me like I'm 2yo please....what do I need to plug into the port for this app to communicate with the car?
sorry lol. You have to purchase a unit that plugs into your obdII port. I will get ya the name of the one I use. It a cool deal and works better at pulling codes and clearing codes than the big box stores sells and uses . The device I think I paid like $25 or $30
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLQAHS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Very interesting....

But explain this to me like I'm 2yo please....what do I need to plug into the port for this app to communicate with the car?
sorry lol. You have to purchase a unit that plugs into your obdII port. I will get ya the name of the one I use. It a cool deal and works better at pulling codes and clearing codes than the big box stores sells and uses . The device I think I paid like $25 or $30
No need to apologize...I just watched a YouTube video on this app and did a face palm when they mentioned the device that plugs in lol. (How did I not know that??).

Anyway looks like a pretty cool app. Would be neat if you could bring it up somehow on your radio screen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
No need to apologize...I just watched a YouTube video on this app and did a face palm when they mentioned the device that plugs in lol. (How did I not know that??).

Anyway looks like a pretty cool app. Would be neat if you could bring it up somehow on your radio screen.
I don't know how the android car play interacts with the system. Mine is a 2016 so I don't have that but have the app on the phone and it does interact to some degree. I never messed with all the thing can do. I only purchased to pull codes on my two Cadillac cts and srx when they were throwing codes. So got to figure it all out. Lol. But I did learn some things today. One thing is on our cars is that the tps on peddle will not operate unless the car is started, all my other throttle by wire will work with just key on. I will be getting an unlocked ecu and tuner soon, so looking forward to seeing what all can be tweaked. I have not research then much yet.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
No need to apologize...I just watched a YouTube video on this app and did a face palm when they mentioned the device that plugs in lol. (How did I not know that??).

Anyway looks like a pretty cool app. Would be neat if you could bring it up somehow on your radio screen.
I don't know how the android car play interacts with the system. Mine is a 2016 so I don't have that but have the app on the phone and it does interact to some degree. I never messed with all the thing can do. I only purchased to pull codes on my two Cadillac cts and srx when they were throwing codes. So got to figure it all out. Lol. But I did learn some things today. One thing is on our cars is that the tps on peddle will not operate unless the car is started, all my other throttle by wire will work with just key on. I will be getting an unlocked ecu and tuner soon, so looking forward to seeing what all can be tweaked. I have not research then much yet.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
Update this thread if you don't mind with anything unique you find. Would be cool to see.

My RT is a 2012 so no Android auto here lol.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Update this thread if you don't mind with anything unique you find. Would be cool to see.

My RT is a 2012 so no Android auto here lol.
I will my friend. I can tell ya on a/f it will tell ya the target the ecu is set at and current. I blipped throttle and we got some some fuel going to her. I will post what I find or don't find

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,217 Posts
Ok I have been using an obdII Bluetooth device for some time. I use an app called TORQUE. This thing works very well.
So I noticed a couple things. First the throttle position is off. At idle its around 13% and WOT is 86%. On torque it will tell you peddle tp and also manifold tp. Both are 86%. I do know its not very often you will see 100% at the peddle but at the throttle body this needs to be 100% at WOT. So since both are the same it must be set up that way in the PCM. Also you know how we have a slight hang coming back down to idle? well it being 13% may have something to do with that and I do not see a hang of the throttle body when letting off the throttle. It will come right back to 13% . Also at idle my A/F is around 13.8:1, this is a little too lean but I know its this way for the government mandated pollution crap. I have not monitored WOT or part throttle yet. Also a cool feature is HP and TQ at the wheels. I did not have it set up this morning to play with that. If you want to play with the app, down load it from the app store. I use TORQUE PRO and do not know what all you can monitor on the free version.
Also I noticed that it seems all the sport mode for engine does is add sensitivity to the peddle. When you put engine in sport mode your throttle position changes, so say your at 40 mph and your throttle position is 20% with sport mode off, turn it on it goes to 22% , it changes 2 % that I can tell, so with on you get a little kick, let off to keep that 40mph then your TP will be back at the original 20% like it was before turning sport mode on. So kind of like what the peddle commander does. The WOT and Idle position does not change with sport mode on or off. Also you can get a plug in toi monitor knock. It will tell you if you do have it and at what rpm and what the timing was at the time of the knock and how much timing was pulled when it did see a knock. There is a ton of things it will log and monitor.
Why do you think the throttle reading at 13% at idle is wrong? The throttle has to be open some to allow the engine to idle. What is the calculated load?

As for the other end the throttle reading will not ever read 100%. The throttle position sensor is a differential based system -- for safety concerns -- and is probably a 5 volt system. The usable range is more than 0V and less than 5V. For another car for which I have the low level details IIRC the usable voltage range is between 0.5V and 4.5V. As a result the reading will never be 100% but the throttle will be full open -- as fully open as it is mechanically permitted to open -- at WOT.

The throttle butterfly valve is physically restrained from closing completely to prevent it from jamming closed or wear/tear to the valve or the throttle body. Likewise the butterfly valve is physically restrained from opening completely for the same reason and for safety. If there is a mechanical failure the partially open valve will close on its own. If it were completely open, fully horizontal in the air flow, air pressure on both sides of the butterfly valve would be equal and possibly keep the butterfly valve open.

Because the throttle is "drive by wire" the butterfly valve's movement is not directly in sync with the gas pedal. The electronic throttle system moderates how quickly the butterfly valve can open. I found for instance with my VW Golf TDi that slamming the pedal down resulted in slower acceleration compared to increasing pressure on the pedal in sync with what the engine indicated it was ready to accept. In slamming the pedal down the electronic pedal system and the engine controller limited how fast the throttle could open to prevent feeding the engine more fuel than it could properly burn. In the case of the VW's diesel engine this was to reduce the formation of soot.

With my gasoline engine cars likewise there is some disconnect between pushing down hard on the gas pedal and how fast and by how much the butterfly valve is opened. If one opens the butterfly valve fully at low engine speed the speed of the air in the intake system slows and cylinder filling can fall off and the engine can bog. But by opening the butterfly valve at some reasonable slower speed, but still within safety margins, the engine reacts better.

And when lifting off the gas pedal the butterfly valve is not allowed to just slam shut, so to speak, but is gradually closed. This is to reduce emissions among other things.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Why do you think the throttle reading at 13% at idle is wrong? The throttle has to be open some to allow the engine to idle. What is the calculated load?

As for the other end the throttle reading will not ever read 100%. The throttle position sensor is a differential based system -- for safety concerns -- and is probably a 5 volt system. The usable range is more than 0V and less than 5V. For another car for which I have the low level details IIRC the usable voltage range is between 0.5V and 4.5V. As a result the reading will never be 100% but the throttle will be full open -- as fully open as it is mechanically permitted to open -- at WOT.

The throttle butterfly valve is physically restrained from closing completely to prevent it from jamming closed or wear/tear to the valve or the throttle body. Likewise the butterfly valve is physically restrained from opening completely for the same reason and for safety. If there is a mechanical failure the partially open valve will close on its own. If it were completely open, fully horizontal in the air flow, air pressure on both sides of the butterfly valve would be equal and possibly keep the butterfly valve open.

Because the throttle is "drive by wire" the butterfly valve's movement is not directly in sync with the gas pedal. The electronic throttle system moderates how quickly the butterfly valve can open. I found for instance with my VW Golf TDi that slamming the pedal down resulted in slower acceleration compared to increasing pressure on the pedal in sync with what the engine indicated it was ready to accept. In slamming the pedal down the electronic pedal system and the engine controller limited how fast the throttle could open to prevent feeding the engine more fuel than it could properly burn. In the case of the VW's diesel engine this was to reduce the formation of soot.

With my gasoline engine cars likewise there is some disconnect between pushing down hard on the gas pedal and how fast and by how much the butterfly valve is opened. If one opens the butterfly valve fully at low engine speed the speed of the air in the intake system slows and cylinder filling can fall off and the engine can bog. But by opening the butterfly valve at some reasonable slower speed, but still within safety margins, the engine reacts better.

And when lifting off the gas pedal the butterfly valve is not allowed to just slam shut, so to speak, but is gradually closed. This is to reduce emissions among other things.
Yes I do know this. This is, why we tune and at wot the plates need to be 100% open. Tune tune tune. I do know the tps is based off 5 volts input and usually not quite 5 volts but so the tps position can be calibrated or at least on tuners that I have used in the past, calibrated from closed ie, idle to wot. Of course the plates aren't fully closed. I build a lot of big hp v twin engines, I got it my friend lol. .
Just relaying what I seen. 86% may well be 100% open, no clue at this point but it's worth looking into. Need to see what the voltages are at idle and wot to determine this.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
I use a little bug that plugs in the OBDII port made by Accutronics, They make hand held scanners as well.

It's called U-scan and App is called same I believe. It can clear codes. Yes I did notice the idle was 13%. It also has Air Intake Temp (AIT), timing etc. I did notice that nothing changes with timing when sport mode is off or on. I noticed at idle and 30 deg outside the IAT was 3 Deg Celsius/ 7 deg F above ambient temp (shaker). The cats were around 625 Deg at idle. I was just sitting in the car at lunch with heater on so I never looked at stats while driving. It gives fuel % in tank in the event your fuel gauge goes wonky.

I'll have to try torque, It will prob work with that as well. All you do is open bluetooth and select u scan. I leave the U scan in the port all the time. It works with 1996 and new cars.
You still have to google the codes, doesn't tell you what specific code is only generic system like Emissions etc.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I use a little bug that plugs in the OBDII port made by Accutronics, They make hand held scanners as well.

It's called U-scan and App is called same I believe. It can clear codes. Yes I did notice the idle was 13%. It also has Air Intake Temp (AIT), timing etc. I did notice that nothing changes with timing when sport mode is off or on. I noticed at idle and 30 deg outside the IAT was 3 Deg Celsius/ 7 deg F above ambient temp (shaker). The cats were around 625 Deg at idle. I was just sitting in the car at lunch with heater on so I never looked at stats while driving. It gives fuel % in tank in the event your fuel gauge goes wonky.

I'll have to try torque, It will prob work with that as well. All you do is open bluetooth and select u scan. I leave the U scan in the port all the time. It works with 1996 and new cars.
You still have to google the codes, doesn't tell you what specific code is only generic system like Emissions etc.
I would imagine all the units will interact with each other. Along with the apps. I have issues logging data and the app appling the modules but I can look at the set up screen and monitor. Target a/f was 14.7. Not going to make power there. It also monitors fuel change in each cyl. Wheel hp in 3rd to 5800 was 353 at just before shut down at 5800. If you compare with engine power on performance pages, it's about 20% difference.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top