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So went by the dealer that I purchased the old Dart from and spoke about the release.
My goal for the day was: were they excited and knowledgable about the coming release; drive something with the A8 and a 6M.
They were much better than the last dealer I talked to and I spent a good few hours there talking cars etc. I know both trans are different then what the HC will be sporting, but still wanted an idea of what has improved since last drives.
Currently will be one of the first called when order can be placed and they will not charge above MSRP period on a customer ordered car. They said when the C7 was launched a local dealer was charging 25k above and people paid it.... Sorry thats insanity and for a Vett...lmao!
So my take from an M5 owner: Handling has improved greatly and that is due to the IRS and improved tuning of the suspension. Night and day to the early models I had driven. It's still not at M levels, but due to the higher center of gravity and weight I could tolerate and I'm sure the HC will be better. The high-center and the weight is still going to limit the HC in role and composure thru a corner, but again I'm sure it will be much improved. It still won't touch an M stock to stock in tight twisties; before you get your flamethrowers out yes I know different purpose of car and I get it, but handling is a huge piece for me not just HP and numbers. In the end though I'm impressed at the advancement and composure they have instilled into the newer models. Great job....
A8 or M6 (again I know HC will be tuned and different from what I drove today):
A8 was driven in a Jeep; Wow is all I can say; in sport mode it is smooth and fast and is the best tranny I've driven in a Dodge product. I have a ZF in my 128i and I love it as well. Can still be dumb in some situations and not always connected to right foot as I would like; but for an auto wow. Great job here! Oh, and I taught the sales guy the multiple gear drop that can be had by holding the left lever. Thank good they fixed the paddle(s) as the last Mopar (years ago) with paddles had you pushing and pulling wtf who does that? Now that's all fixed! I'd still like the option of banging gears on the floor, but found out real quick there is no neutral lock-out so I slammed right into neutral on hard down shifts. This needs fixed IMO.
M6: Oh how I suck at the left pedal. Biggest problem is I'm used to where the BMW clutch is released compared to the Dodge; complete opposite. BMW is releasing just before mid stroke the Dodge is releasing at almost the top of the stroke. I know I could get use to; just not used to it.
Clutch could be a little firmer for my taste, but was smooth and as I was getting use to engagement point it is a good release!
Shifting is good, but I still don't understand what the point of making these transmissions feel notchy? I get it, that it's to make it feel old school and manly; but this was my number one complaint of the GT500. I'll take the feel of a smooth shift anytime over nostalgia. I can't imagine that the Viper M6 shifts like this as it's more suited for the track so will assume the HC will follow this. Not saying it was bad, but smooth speed shifting with the long throws and notchy engagement will not be done and if you say you do it you've never driven a short throw smooth shifting manual.
So the first decision: A or M; even though the A was so sweet and the level it will be at in the HC I still think I'm going manual assuming some feed back here. One: I know it should be a shorter throw than what I drove today, but is it? If you know and have driven the Viper M6 please let me know and I would prefer first hand experience. Two: please confirm that the Viper M6 is not heavily notchy during engagement?
No need to flame me on this either as I'm coming from a fabulous SMG that I love; I just want a third pedal again and at these speeds I really don't care about a few tenths. What will change my mind is final confirmed gear ratio's between the two as I don't want to be at 2,500 at 80mph.
Color: I'm coming from an unassuming sleeper (most on the street don't know or even notice the M5) this is what some dislike, but this is what I like. As after I hit xxx I drop into traffic and I'm ninja
now most auto geeks spot me from miles and will some will come flying up to get a peek or try to challenge. That latter doesn't end well for most sorry getting to color; so in thinking to try to maintain some Ninja ability I'm thinking B5 or the darker silver (sorry don't know all the updated color lingo yet). B5 is what my '71 had so its a little nostalgic for me and I've always loved the color. If I go B5 I am thinking blacked out hood, but I'm still not sure on that. I have SG on the M now and love it, but I've always been partial to blue? Seems that it may be a rare color on the HC too from all the color combo's I've read so far. What opinion on B5 on the HC?
Interior even with the the B5 or silver the Dakota/brown will be what I will go with as I like the look and I want something different than black and red is just to much for me.
Well that about covers it other than will I truly pull the trigger and get rid of the M5. I know this is deep Mopar territory so don't suspect I'll get much support on keeping, but I'm telling you if you haven't experienced all your doing is speaking from ignorance. The M5 is a highly capable highly entertaining jail speed car. It's not a stop light to stop light car, but from 60mph there is not much on the street in stock form that can touch me and on the street in four years I have as of yet never been passed Side by side yes, but never been taken; from a light well to many to count just not geared for it.
Though it's an older car now I had just came from a C&C meet so had the M with me when I went to the dealer. After the drive the SA wanted to look at the car so I started and revved for him; about four sales guys came running out of the door to come listen. So though it's old it's still a capable respected unassuming car and I still love it! Even had a kid on the way home in a Mazda 3 hang is head out the window just to hear and see the car (so much for my ninja theory)!
Dealer also insisted that they drive (I was with) so they could maybe make me an offer for the trade. I know they most likely won't touch a private sale number, but I entertained them and if they come close with the number and an offset on some of the tax then I may consider a trade so I don't have the hassle.
What say you?
My goal for the day was: were they excited and knowledgable about the coming release; drive something with the A8 and a 6M.
They were much better than the last dealer I talked to and I spent a good few hours there talking cars etc. I know both trans are different then what the HC will be sporting, but still wanted an idea of what has improved since last drives.
Currently will be one of the first called when order can be placed and they will not charge above MSRP period on a customer ordered car. They said when the C7 was launched a local dealer was charging 25k above and people paid it.... Sorry thats insanity and for a Vett...lmao!
So my take from an M5 owner: Handling has improved greatly and that is due to the IRS and improved tuning of the suspension. Night and day to the early models I had driven. It's still not at M levels, but due to the higher center of gravity and weight I could tolerate and I'm sure the HC will be better. The high-center and the weight is still going to limit the HC in role and composure thru a corner, but again I'm sure it will be much improved. It still won't touch an M stock to stock in tight twisties; before you get your flamethrowers out yes I know different purpose of car and I get it, but handling is a huge piece for me not just HP and numbers. In the end though I'm impressed at the advancement and composure they have instilled into the newer models. Great job....
A8 or M6 (again I know HC will be tuned and different from what I drove today):
A8 was driven in a Jeep; Wow is all I can say; in sport mode it is smooth and fast and is the best tranny I've driven in a Dodge product. I have a ZF in my 128i and I love it as well. Can still be dumb in some situations and not always connected to right foot as I would like; but for an auto wow. Great job here! Oh, and I taught the sales guy the multiple gear drop that can be had by holding the left lever. Thank good they fixed the paddle(s) as the last Mopar (years ago) with paddles had you pushing and pulling wtf who does that? Now that's all fixed! I'd still like the option of banging gears on the floor, but found out real quick there is no neutral lock-out so I slammed right into neutral on hard down shifts. This needs fixed IMO.
M6: Oh how I suck at the left pedal. Biggest problem is I'm used to where the BMW clutch is released compared to the Dodge; complete opposite. BMW is releasing just before mid stroke the Dodge is releasing at almost the top of the stroke. I know I could get use to; just not used to it.
Clutch could be a little firmer for my taste, but was smooth and as I was getting use to engagement point it is a good release!
Shifting is good, but I still don't understand what the point of making these transmissions feel notchy? I get it, that it's to make it feel old school and manly; but this was my number one complaint of the GT500. I'll take the feel of a smooth shift anytime over nostalgia. I can't imagine that the Viper M6 shifts like this as it's more suited for the track so will assume the HC will follow this. Not saying it was bad, but smooth speed shifting with the long throws and notchy engagement will not be done and if you say you do it you've never driven a short throw smooth shifting manual.
So the first decision: A or M; even though the A was so sweet and the level it will be at in the HC I still think I'm going manual assuming some feed back here. One: I know it should be a shorter throw than what I drove today, but is it? If you know and have driven the Viper M6 please let me know and I would prefer first hand experience. Two: please confirm that the Viper M6 is not heavily notchy during engagement?
No need to flame me on this either as I'm coming from a fabulous SMG that I love; I just want a third pedal again and at these speeds I really don't care about a few tenths. What will change my mind is final confirmed gear ratio's between the two as I don't want to be at 2,500 at 80mph.
Color: I'm coming from an unassuming sleeper (most on the street don't know or even notice the M5) this is what some dislike, but this is what I like. As after I hit xxx I drop into traffic and I'm ninja
now most auto geeks spot me from miles and will some will come flying up to get a peek or try to challenge. That latter doesn't end well for most sorry getting to color; so in thinking to try to maintain some Ninja ability I'm thinking B5 or the darker silver (sorry don't know all the updated color lingo yet). B5 is what my '71 had so its a little nostalgic for me and I've always loved the color. If I go B5 I am thinking blacked out hood, but I'm still not sure on that. I have SG on the M now and love it, but I've always been partial to blue? Seems that it may be a rare color on the HC too from all the color combo's I've read so far. What opinion on B5 on the HC?Interior even with the the B5 or silver the Dakota/brown will be what I will go with as I like the look and I want something different than black and red is just to much for me.
Well that about covers it other than will I truly pull the trigger and get rid of the M5. I know this is deep Mopar territory so don't suspect I'll get much support on keeping, but I'm telling you if you haven't experienced all your doing is speaking from ignorance. The M5 is a highly capable highly entertaining jail speed car. It's not a stop light to stop light car, but from 60mph there is not much on the street in stock form that can touch me and on the street in four years I have as of yet never been passed
Side by side yes, but never been taken; from a light well to many to count just not geared for it.Though it's an older car now I had just came from a C&C meet so had the M with me when I went to the dealer. After the drive the SA wanted to look at the car so I started and revved for him; about four sales guys came running out of the door to come listen. So though it's old it's still a capable respected unassuming car and I still love it! Even had a kid on the way home in a Mazda 3 hang is head out the window just to hear and see the car (so much for my ninja theory)!
Dealer also insisted that they drive (I was with) so they could maybe make me an offer for the trade. I know they most likely won't touch a private sale number, but I entertained them and if they come close with the number and an offset on some of the tax then I may consider a trade so I don't have the hassle.
What say you?
