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Discussion Starter #1
I am curious if the Diablo tune completely disables TM? I have read threads where B&G is the only company that fully disables TM, but I wanted to just verify for sure with you guys if the Diablo tune does or does not.

Thanks!
 

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The Diablo tunes reduce torque management in their canned tunes.


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Right, that is my main question. Does it just reduce it or fully remove it as the B&G tune does?

To better clarify my question...I want the product that fully removes TM...is it only B&G that can do that or does Diablo as well?
 

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Right, that is my main question. Does it just reduce it or fully remove it as the B&G tune does?

To better clarify my question...I want the product that fully removes TM...is it only B&G that can do that or does Diablo as well?

B&G has a custom tune that they sell with torque management reduced more than the Diablo canned tunes. Diablo can further reduce torque management with a custom tune.

Talk to Johan at diablosport ([email protected]) or Brian at B&G and they'll be able to provide you with the solution you're looking for.


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Right, that is my main question. Does it just reduce it or fully remove it as the B&G tune does?

To better clarify my question...I want the product that fully removes TM...is it only B&G that can do that or does Diablo as well?
Diablo canned tunes have less tq mgmnt than stock.
B&G Trinity tune has less than the above.
B&G ECU has the least tq mgmnt.

From an ET perspective on a '12 392 A5 DA ~1.5K
Diablo picked up .2 over stock with the 91 & 93 Octane Tunes (12.8 to 12.6)
B&G Trinity (93 octane header tune) .3 better than stock (with added timing & fuel) (12.8 to 12.5)
B&G ECU Rev 3 93 Octane tune with raised limiter & KNK sensor reduced by 25%, I picked up .4 (12.8 to 12.4)
275/40/17 DRs (26" tall) netted me .3
Advantages of the B&G Trinity Tune is you can add/pull Timing & Fuel at WOT via the Trinity (for me, this is maybe .05 sec as most of the added timing is pulled unless it is cool or your running a little 104 race gas).
Advatage of the B&G ECU is the least Tq mgmnt but you can't tweak the tune with a Trinity.
You can PM Red Barron as he is up on all the latest B&G Tunes (both the Trinity Tunes and the ECUs). I run the Rev 3 B&G ECU at the track and the B&G Trinity on my stock ECU. I'm not sure what if any tunning improvements have been made to the Rev. 3 lately but RB should know.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys, that answers my question! I will look to the Trinity with B&G tune. Now the waiting game begins since I have a 2014 SRT coming and Diablo hasn't even released the 2013 yet :(
 

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Diablo canned tunes have less tq mgmnt than stock.
B&G Trinity tune has less than the above.
B&G ECU has the least tq mgmnt.

From an ET perspective on a '12 392 A5 DA ~1.5K
Diablo picked up .2 over stock with the 91 & 93 Octane Tunes (12.8 to 12.6)
B&G Trinity (93 octane header tune) .3 better than stock (with added timing & fuel) (12.8 to 12.5)
B&G ECU Rev 3 93 Octane tune with raised limiter & KNK sensor reduced by 25%, I picked up .4 (12.8 to 12.4)
275/40/17 DRs (26" tall) netted me .3
Advantages of the B&G Trinity Tune is you can add/pull Timing & Fuel at WOT via the Trinity (for me, this is maybe .05 sec as most of the added timing is pulled unless it is cool or your running a little 104 race gas).
Advatage of the B&G ECU is the least Tq mgmnt but you can't tweak the tune with a Trinity.
You can PM Red Barron as he is up on all the latest B&G Tunes (both the Trinity Tunes and the ECUs). I run the Rev 3 B&G ECU at the track and the B&G Trinity on my stock ECU. I'm not sure what if any tunning improvements have been made to the Rev. 3 lately but RB should know.
KJ,

A side note, where are you getting 100% 93 octane at or are you running 93 with 10% eth?
 

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KJ,

A side note, where are you getting 100% 93 octane at or are you running 93 with 10% eth?
Haven't been able to find 93 without eth around here. My norm is hit the track with 1/8th of 93 octane (10% eth) and add a gallon of 104 race fuel. Going to the track this Friday to see how the B&G ECU does with the KNK sensors reduced another 15%, water/meth injection and no race fuel. I just put the snow system on and haven't had a chance to dyno it yet to see what it does to my AFs but it does cool my AIT 20 degrees within 3 seconds and I hope I can run another 2 -3 degrees without it being pulled.
I'm going to compare the B&G Trinity Tune to my latest flashed B&G ECU with and without water/meth and the winner will be my final tune. I had my modified B&G Trinity tune flashed to my B&G ECU, with reduced KNK sensor sensitivity and rev limiter raised to 6680. In theory, my B&G ECU should be a tad quicker than the B&G Trinity tune if the reflash worked. The difference being the less tq mgmnt in the B&G ECU.
Mopar Shootout and Test & Tune at Little River on the 19th. You should try to make it if you can. This Friday is Ford vs Chevy Shootout & Test & Tune so I hope I can get eight to ten passes in so I have some logged data to evaluate.
 

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the idea that more TM can be removed via a BG PCM than a CMR custom tune is off base....if you want all TM gone, it can be done in CMR :)

If you are looking for all TM removed, and haven;t even tried the canned tunes yet, you may be pleasantly surprised to see that the level of reduction we offer is about perfect for a street car ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
the idea that more TM can be removed via a BG PCM than a CMR custom tune is off base....if you want all TM gone, it can be done in CMR :)

If you are looking for all TM removed, and haven;t even tried the canned tunes yet, you may be pleasantly surprised to see that the level of reduction we offer is about perfect for a street car ;)
Thanks Mike, the level of removal of TM was certainly one of my questions. The other I am finding out as I research more is you guys haven't even released a tune for the 2013 Challenger yet. My 2014 will be here in September which means, if history is any indication, will be approximately a full year away from the possibility to buy your product. B&G seem to be a lot quicker in their turn time to create a tune. I understand you guys need time to crack the code and get it done, I just wish it didn't take so long compared to your competitor.

Please don't take that as a slight against you guys. I think your product is awesome and I really do prefer your product philosophically because you guys offer the most flexibility. It's just from what I read (from KJ392 above and elsewhere) the B&G tune seems more aggressive (and your time to market is disheartening). Will I go to the track constantly? No, but it becomes a mind game to me of unlocking the MOST potential I can from the engine and which tuning product/option does that for me.

All that said I went to the Diablo site to check who locally could do a CMR tune for me and your dealer locator page is down. Is there some other way I can check who in my area can do a CMR? My zipcode is 55379 in MN.
 

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Thanks Mike, the level of removal of TM was certainly one of my questions. The other I am finding out as I research more is you guys haven't even released a tune for the 2013 Challenger yet. My 2014 will be here in September which means, if history is any indication, will be approximately a full year away from the possibility to buy your product. B&G seem to be a lot quicker in their turn time to create a tune. I understand you guys need time to crack the code and get it done, I just wish it didn't take so long compared to your competitor.

Please don't take that as a slight against you guys. I think your product is awesome and I really do prefer your product philosophically because you guys offer the most flexibility. It's just from what I read (from KJ392 above and elsewhere) the B&G tune seems more aggressive (and your time to market is disheartening). Will I go to the track constantly? No, but it becomes a mind game to me of unlocking the MOST potential I can from the engine and which tuning product/option does that for me.

All that said I went to the Diablo site to check who locally could do a CMR tune for me and your dealer locator page is down. Is there some other way I can check who in my area can do a CMR? My zipcode is 55379 in MN.
The driver mod is a lot more of a difference (ET wise) than the delta in the tq mgmnt between B&G and Diablo Canned Tunes in the M6s. The difference between the Diablo Canned Tunes and the B&G Tune tq Mgmnt wise is most noticeable in cars with autos. I have not seen any track time comparisons between the Diablo Canned Tunes and a B&G in a standard. Both tunes will net ~ 10 to 15 HP/TQ. The downside to the B&G ECU is you can't tweak your tune via the Trinity. The Trinity/B&G package does enable you to make any adjustments offered in the Trinity Tuner but you’re using your stock ECU. Like Mike stated, a CMR tune via a trinity can pretty much reduce tq mgmnt to whatever level you want. I don't know if the Diablo canned tunes or a CMR tune reduce the KNK sensor sensitivity like the B&G can or not but that can be big if you start trying to add more timing.
I went the B&G route because it was out before the Trinity was and my car was one of the beta cars. Once the Trinity came out, I did the Trinity/B&G Package as my DD and run the B&G ECU at the track. I've had my B&G ECU flashed five times to get it to match my cars set up (rev limiter 6680, additional KNK sensor reduction, more base timing, A/Fs tweaked twice etc.) so it's a custom tune in essence. There is more timing in the 392s to be had but you have to be willing to reduce the KNK sensors and run race fuel (not exactly a good street scenario).
I've done a ton of testing & tune tweaking since April 2012 and it has netted a whopping .1 second and one to two MPH between the B&G Trinity & B&G ECU. I'm going to be testing a Water/Meth injection system tomorrow in 103 degree heat to see if that does anything to offset the crappy DA, cool the incoming air and reduce the amount of timing being pulled.
DRs are a .35 second improvement every pass so I would consider them and a tuner as the lowest hanging fruit.
It would be interesting to see if anyone has done a Canned tune to CMR Custom tune comparison and what it netted. The canned tunes are tough to beat and are free with the tuner.
As of now, your only option for a MY 13 is a 2012 ECU & Crank Sensor if you want to be able to tune it.
 

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The driver mod is a lot more of a difference (ET wise) than the delta in the tq mgmnt between B&G and Diablo Canned Tunes in the M6s. The difference between the Diablo Canned Tunes and the B&G Tune tq Mgmnt wise is most noticeable in cars with autos. I have not seen any track time comparisons between the Diablo Canned Tunes and a B&G in a standard. Both tunes will net ~ 10 to 15 HP/TQ. The downside to the B&G ECU is you can't tweak your tune via the Trinity. The Trinity/B&G package does enable you to make any adjustments offered in the Trinity Tuner but you’re using your stock ECU. Like Mike stated, a CMR tune via a trinity can pretty much reduce tq mgmnt to whatever level you want. I don't know if the Diablo canned tunes or a CMR tune reduce the KNK sensor sensitivity like the B&G can or not but that can be big if you start trying to add more timing.
I went the B&G route because it was out before the Trinity was and my car was one of the beta cars. Once the Trinity came out, I did the Trinity/B&G Package as my DD and run the B&G ECU at the track. I've had my B&G ECU flashed five times to get it to match my cars set up (rev limiter 6680, additional KNK sensor reduction, more base timing, A/Fs tweaked twice etc.) so it's a custom tune in essence. There is more timing in the 392s to be had but you have to be willing to reduce the KNK sensors and run race fuel (not exactly a good street scenario).
I've done a ton of testing & tune tweaking since April 2012 and it has netted a whopping .1 second and one to two MPH between the B&G Trinity & B&G ECU. I'm going to be testing a Water/Meth injection system tomorrow in 103 degree heat to see if that does anything to offset the crappy DA, cool the incoming air and reduce the amount of timing being pulled.
DRs are a .35 second improvement every pass so I would consider them and a tuner as the lowest hanging fruit.
It would be interesting to see if anyone has done a Canned tune to CMR Custom tune comparison and what it netted. The canned tunes are tough to beat and are free with the tuner.
As of now, your only option for a MY 13 is a 2012 ECU & Crank Sensor if you want to be able to tune it.
Hey KJ....sorry I haven't been back in contact....but thanks for taking the time to look at my stuff....after ur runs start a thread about the water/meth...curious to see the results....and the data log!


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