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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Don't get me wrong by the thread title because I love the Dodge brand. I just read this link concerning the revamped 2018 Ford Mustang. I think Dodge should be putting more time if they already Are into some performance changes and weight reduction changes. Call it refinement, call it a whole new redesign or as Ford put it a refresh whichever. Bringing on the Demon was a great addition but it's out of reach to most of us who own V6s, Scats, T/As, SRTs and Hellcats. The 5.0 Mustang does 0-60 now in under 4 seconds. The down fall of our cars is the weight. Why can't Dodge start using aluminum doors, hoods, deck lids and whatever else it takes to lessen the weight of these cars? Even the Demon is still heavy comparing it the Camaro and the Mustang. Here's the link. I thought it was pretty impressive for a refreshed muscle car that has now a new line lock with all kinds of driving styles that can be selected at a push of a button....and when is Dodge going to come out with a convertible?

First Drive: 2018 Ford Mustang | Driving
 

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FCA is in long term trouble and the Challenger will get none of that, Dodge actually doesn’t hold much value for the company...
 

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Well Justintime2, you may be correct. It wouldn't surprise me. In my experience, Dodge has a long ways to go when it comes to the quality of their cars. They could do a lot better and they know it. On top of that their customer service COMPLETELY SUCKS!!!

While I do like the styling and performance of my Challenger, the total lack of any lasting quality/durability and absolutely horrible customer service I have experienced will guarantee them my money will go to one of their competitors next time I buy a new car!
 

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Quote:"The down fall of our cars is the weight." Quote


Weight is also why the Challenger makes a great road car, with a great ride. The larger size is a plus too, at least it was for me.


Mustang vs Challenger..............................Apples to Oranges.....................buy the one that you like best! LOL
 

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2017 Mustang dimensions:
Dimensions: 188″ L x 75″ W x 54-55″ H
Curb weight: 3,469 to 3,825 lbs
Horsepower: 300 to 435 hp
MPG: Up to 21 city / 30 highway


2017 Challenger dimensions:
Dimensions: 198″ L x 76″ W x 56-58″ H
Curb weight: 3,894 to 4,448 lbs
Horsepower: 305 to 707 hp
MPG: Up to 19 city / 30 highway

You've got 10" more vehicle overall length between the two. The Mustang is pretty much 2 + 2 vehicle and the Challenger has larger cabin & trunk.

Similarly, if you compare:

2017 Charger
198-201″ L x 75″ W x 58″ H
Curb weight: 3,934 to 4,575 lbs
Horsepower: 292 to 707 hp
MPG: Up to 19 city / 30 highway

The Charger has 4" more wheelbase over the Challenger and its heavier than the Challenger - overhangs on Charger are shorter than Challenger so there's more cabin between the front / rear axle lines.

Challengers already have aluminum hoods. They could go with aluminum bodywork, but its expensive.

The only mass -production car is the Audi A8, but that's an $$$$ model, and doesn't sell in much volume. Then there's some exotics that use aluminum bodies.
 

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It really seems to me that Dodge is the last muscle car manufacturer. I feel as if Ford and Chevy have turned the Mustang and Camaro into sports cars rather than true muscle cars. So while it may seem that Dodge is falling behind, I think it's because they are the last of it's kind that's around. I don't believe that's a bad thing, in fact I think that's what sets them apart.
 

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The truth is, in the end, bench racers don't drive sales.

Otherwise the Challenger would have been discontinued by now.
 

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Don't get me wrong by the thread title because I love the dodge brand. I just read this link concerning the revamped 2018 Ford Mustang. I think Dodge should be putting more time if they already Are into some performance changes and weight reduction changes. Call it refinement, call it a whole new redesign or as Ford put it a refresh whichever. Bringing on the demon was a great addition but it's out of reach to most of us who own the V6, Scats, T/A's, SRT's and Hellcats. The 5.0 Mustang does 0-60 now in under 4 seconds. The down fall of our cars is the weight. Why can't Dodge start using aluminum doors, hoods, deck lids and whatever else it takes to lessen the weight of these cars? Even the Demon is still heavy comparing it the Camaro and the Mustang. Here's the link. I thought it was pretty impressive for a refreshed muscle car that has now a new line lock with all kinds of driving styles that can be selected at a push of a button....and when is Dodge going to come out with a convertible?

First Drive: 2018 Ford Mustang | Driving



Only one of the Mustangs will actually run a sub 4.0 second to 60 and that is a 10 speed with performance pack...and the sub is 3.99999999. We're still a better value and more car....Heck I can do 4.4 with a stick in mine scat pack and my Stingray was an a8 and would only do 4.0....I guess all those owners will be trading too....:slap:
 

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The Challenger is not meant to be a competitor for the Mustang and that is what I like about it. I wouldn't even consider a Mustang for myself, now a Camaro maybe.
 

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Agreed that the Challenger platform is long in the tooth - 10 years now!

I think the downsizing of the Mustang and Camaro may have actually helped Challenger sales. Those cars are just basically 2-seaters now, eliminating many family guys.... even if they have better performance.
 

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Agreed that the Challenger platform is long in the tooth - 10 years now!

I think the downsizing of the Mustang and Camaro may have actually helped Challenger sales. Those cars are just basically 2-seaters now, eliminating many family guys.... even if they have better performance.
If the Challenger wasn't around and all I had to pick from were the current Mustang and Camaro - I'd probably get a 'Vette (if picking domestic brands).

Why bother with the 'wasted space' when its not usable. The 'Vette would have the rear hatch / cargo area that's more useful and out perform the Camaro.
 

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If the Challenger wasn't around and all I had to pick from were the current Mustang and Camaro - I'd probably get a 'Vette (if picking domestic brands).

Why bother with the 'wasted space' when its not usable. The 'Vette would have the rear hatch / cargo area that's more useful and out perform the Camaro.
If the Challenger wasn't around I'd probably get a Charger. Half the reason I got this car was the sound, other half was the look. :grin2:

I'd drive this.
 

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I generally do not comment on "looks", for the fact that looks are subjective to each person.


That said, there is not an angle on the '18 Mustang that remotely makes me feel like it has anything to do with the word Mustang. "Drone" styling IMO, and it'll fit in with all the other cars on the road that have went down that path.


At this point, I could care less how much HP, or how fast it is. I won't own a butt ugly toy car. LOL
 

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All my Mopars have been dependible and durable.If Dodge went under ,I would still have mine and would not own a Ford or Chevy under any curcumstance.Not saying they are better or worse than a Dodge. I don't get rid of a car,truck until it's used up.As you can tell some of mine are quite old.I have in the past had many other brands and they went into decay and were kicked down the road.

Old Smokey has 330k worked miles,and has never been in the shop for a mechanical issue.I changed the clutch AT 300K and that's about it.We have had it 23 years and I wouldn't hesitate to go cross country towing a load.It may out live us all.Its all about maintenance.

This is in regards to a previous post on long term durabillity.
 

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The truth is, in the end, bench racers don't drive sales.

Otherwise the Challenger would have been discontinued by now.
Amen to that, brother. I have met so many people during my time of having the car that talk so much crap, but have never seen the entrance sign of a race track. If they do go to the track, they sit in the stands and make stupid comments about how they would win in X car if they were driving. The percentage of Challenger/Charger/300C/Mustang/Camaro/Vette owners that actually race is extremely small. The rest sit in the stands and regurgitate Car and Drive magazine times made in ideal conditions, drag slicks, and professional drivers. Then when real world times don't match the magazines then it has to be the driver because every car can do 12.1 in the quarter in every part of the world while on street tires. Just like those Demons that ran 11s at Bandimere. At the end of the day, the average buyer of these cars will drive it back and forth to work getting groceries on the way home while chirping a tire or two at a stop light. Maybe even do a quick pull on the little old lady in the Buick next to them. That is even going so far as to say that people drive these cars. I am still baffled when I see 2012 R/T Challengers with only 2k miles on them. I am over here like, DRIVE THE DAMN THING!!!! It is not a collectors item and never will be. It will be a rusted tin can in 30 years.
 

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If they changed the entire body shell of the Challenger over to aluminum and changed all of the suspension
components over to aluminum they could shave hundreds of pounds off the car. Now when it comes to the
suspension it's not as easy as just re-casting or forging the parts in the same molds used for the iron and
steel pieces, there would have to be Finite Element Analysis done and new parts designed but the difference
would be astonishing.

I have an AWD Sedan with a Bi Turbo V6 and look at it's specs!

Overall length 185.0 in
Overall height 56.3 in
Overall width 71.3 in (without mirrors)
Wheelbase 111.8 in
Coefficient of drag 0.32
Curb weight 3,759 lbs

With 362 horsepower it will run the 1/4 in 12.90 and hit 60mph in low 4's. How? It's fairly light for whatit is.
The doors, the Trunk, the Hood, the front and rear suspension cradles, all of the suspension links all aluminum.

Aluminum works.. It's strong and it's light and it doesn't rot out like steel (unless you pour Mercury on it!). I'm a fan of
it's use!
 

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Why are we comparing a True Muscle Car to a car that looks like a Bird. Really, If I wanted a real sports car it would be a used Viper or 911 Turbo. End of story.
 

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The only mass -production car is the Audi A8, but that's an $$$$ model, and doesn't sell in much volume. Then there's some exotics that use aluminum bodies.
Ford F 150 :) Not that that has gone that well. A Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm glad this thread didn't turn into a roast. I read all the replies and each and everyone Who replied had a great answer. A lot of true facts and statements. I too am a die hard mopar guy and loyal to the company as I'm also an employee. I absolutely love my challenger to no end. It is a true muscle car. I'll probably have this car for another 20 years, who knows? I do agree with the poor service although there are some dealerships that do take customer service serious even from the their lube bays out. They're just not enough those around. If and when Dodge/FCA makes their improvements, Im sure we will see it in the 2019-20 models.
 
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