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Probably adding a supercharger to a 2012 A5 6.4 stock car. I know both the manufactures use the same supercharger but any opinions on the two systems? I know the edelbrock runners are slightly better at low end torque. Ease of installation is a
primary goal. The price on the Magnuson is noticeably cheaper this holiday season through the site vendors. I am keeping the car at 6 pounds and I am aware of the 6.4l potential piston issues.
 

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I debated this before I got the E-Force. Knowing that I could get more boost in the future with the Maggie at the time, I went with the ease of installation and quiet E-Force blower. Everything on the E-Force was cut to fit and the color book of instructions were the best I have seen. It has been on for over 2 years now and I have had absolutely no issues. I like how quiet it is and the torque down low when not going WOT is just incredible. I am thinking of upgrading to the new 2650 next year.
 

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With the new eforce 2650 I would go that route. More cubic inches lol


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With the new eforce 2650 I would go that route. More cubic inches lol


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Magnuson has a 2650 now as well (The Vengence).
 

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From what I understand, Magnuson's blowers are made by Eaton and so is the Edelbrock. They all use the Eaton blower and then package them how they want to.

I'd buy the one that you like better as far as looks or price. In my opinion, the EForce has a more OEM look to it because of how it is enclosed (it reminds me of the blower packaging on the GM LT4 engine in the C7 Z06 and ZL1), while the Magnuson gives more of a visual pop when you open the hood because you see that purty blower sitting there.

Here's a video from this years SEMA show, where the Eaton rep is explaining some of the features of the 2650.

 

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The new Edelbrock 2650 makes a lot of efficient power. I was going to order one from A2Speed for the wifes SRT Charger but she wanted the new Gen3 Whipple instead. The older Edelbrock kit is very well thought out and well made as well as easy to install.
 

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The new Edelbrock 2650 makes a lot of efficient power. I was going to order one from A2Speed for the wifes SRT Charger but she wanted the new Gen3 Whipple instead. The older Edelbrock kit is very well thought out and well made as well as easy to install.
Nothing against the Eaton's, but that Whipple is a Really Nice blower that moves some air!

They have a Cool setup for the Whipple's on the S550 Mustangs now that can change the pulley size virtually and have the blower make more or less power using software (kind of like a software based boost controller). It's called Flight Control.

Sorry for the hi-jack and back to our regularly scheduled programming.
 

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however driveability isn't great on the Whipple, especially at higher boost levels
Luke
Isn't driveability more of a tuning issue than a blower one though? I equate it to putting a new piece of hardware into your computer and not having it work until you update the drivers.

If I'm wrong, would you Please explain, so that I can learn from your knowledge? You've dealt with more Maggie's than most, so you'd know better than I would.

I do know that quite a few of the Guys with Whipple's on their Mustangs without any problems. One that I personally know and have ridden in and it drives like stock (with more power, but no fluttering or stumbling or issues of any sort). That's what makes me say that it'd be a tuning issue.

I know that a bad tune can make or break a forced induction install and is the most important piece of the F/I puzzle and it's got to be right or it'll be a headache and no fun to drive.
 

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yes, part of driveability is tuning, but boost is controlled by vacuum, and depending on the supercharger system, there is not much you can do to control the boost coming in and out, especially when you don't want it to, hence poor driveability on a street car, on a race car, does not matter, the more radical the boost, the worst it is

the Whipple we just put together is making massive hps, 798 on 93 octane(imagine race gas), however driveability sucks, you have to drive it on eggshells, barely touch throttle and it will spin tires going thru nearly any intersection, as a daily driver it sucks, as a race car, its brutal

97% of all customers want fun, quick, easy to drive vehicle, not monsters that are hard work to drive.....people talk about 1k hps all the time, but in reality those cars are nearly undriveable, and not a lot of fun to daily drive, i know I own one....and to make matters worst, not that reliable

most people do not understand that there is a fine line between street an race car, when my wife needs something from the store, Bigred stays in the garage and our 2015 gets driven.....or the truck, etc

Luke
 

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Amen

People watch street outlaws and think they want to build one of them for cars shows lol. The down side to any supercharger other than factory stuff is all vacuum based. Makes it tough and if you put in a radical change it makes it worse



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a number of years ago we built a car for a customer, the entire time I told the customer repeatedly your going to hate this car, please dont do this, lets do something milder, way more fun, oh no, absolutely wanted that big number, he wanted the superhero status, well he got it

less than a few weeks later called begging to fix the nightmare he had created.....different cam, way less boost = great driveability and lots of fun, still made well over 600 whps, but totally different car, fun car

in my opinion 600 wheel horsepower is the perfect number, fun easy, very reliable, simple, something i would not be afraid to climb into and do the Hot Rod power tour with

Luke>:)
 

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I went the driveability/reliability route and bought the maggie. I personally love that it is very predictable and quite....perfect for a daily driver or weekend warrior...IMO.

BUT I really hate that you essentially glue hose barbs into heater tube passages with the magnuson kit (whipple actual provides custom metal tubes that bolt to the same location as the factory tubes)...in fact the kit seems like someone just raided a NAPA parts bin. However, I do like the raw look of the maggie.

Edelbrock's kit looks like parts were designed and not an after though (definitely more refined), and the offering of the larger blower makes it a the better system between the two.

One thing I have always wondered is if the eforce suffers from belt spin like the maggies seem to?
 

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BUT I really hate that you essentially glue hose barbs into heater tube passages with the magnuson kit (whipple actual provides custom metal tubes that bolt to the same location as the factory tubes)...in fact the kit seems like someone just raided a NAPA parts bin. However, I do like the raw look of the maggie.
In total agreement. The Maggie kits could stand a lot of improvement in the hoses and fittings category.
Pre-formed hoses, a nicer coolant tank, upgrade pump options would all be nice. But I agree the Maggie looks
friggen awesome installed! :)
 
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a number of years ago we built a car for a customer, the entire time I told the customer repeatedly your going to hate this car, please dont do this, lets do something milder, way more fun, oh no, absolutely wanted that big number, he wanted the superhero status, well he got it Luke>:)
Luke,

Some folks have to learn the hard way. I helped a friend pick out the parts for a BIG Hemi years ago that he
was shoe horning into his Dart. He took an Indy 500 alloy block and topped it with StageV Engineering Hemi heads
with a massive 18-71 and it was all tuned by Ray Barton. He hit the magic numbers he was looking for (well over
2500 horse on the engine alone) and the first time he took it to the strip he ran a low 8 run blowing the tires loose
the entire way down the track, scared himself to death and sold the car and bought something "tame" (A Viper)

LOL!!!!!
 
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yes, part of driveability is tuning, but boost is controlled by vacuum, and depending on the supercharger system, there is not much you can do to control the boost coming in and out, especially when you don't want it to, hence poor driveability on a street car, on a race car, does not matter, the more radical the boost, the worst it is

the Whipple we just put together is making massive hps, 798 on 93 octane(imagine race gas), however driveability sucks, you have to drive it on eggshells, barely touch throttle and it will spin tires going thru nearly any intersection, as a daily driver it sucks, as a race car, its brutal

97% of all customers want fun, quick, easy to drive vehicle, not monsters that are hard work to drive.....people talk about 1k hps all the time, but in reality those cars are nearly undriveable, and not a lot of fun to daily drive, i know I own one....and to make matters worst, not that reliable

most people do not understand that there is a fine line between street an race car, when my wife needs something from the store, Bigred stays in the garage and our 2015 gets driven.....or the truck, etc

Luke
Thanks Luke! :cheers:

I agree about the vacuum part, but I believe that the cars above may have had the wrong cams in them to make that much power. A big cam has just as much effect on vacuum as a blower does. That's what makes me say that. Back in the day, how many times have you heard of Guys losing braking power because their cams were too big and it had an effect on the power brake booster?

I'm much more familiar with GM stuff and you can bolt pretty much any blower on an LSx (LS1/2/3) and get 550-600 to the wheels nowadays. They REALLY like boost! I'm finding that Dodge's are different. That's one of the reasons that I like turbo's better. They can be bolted onto a nice motor and still make big power without having the problems that a blower motor has, but on Mopar's, 550-600 whp zones, a turbo is overkill.

My point is that you don't need to make things radical to make power (once again, I'm talking GM's. I'm finding out that Mopar's are different, but I didn't buy Ruby to mod her. We got her to drive and enjoy. If I wanted something that was modded, I'd have kept my old C5 Vette).

Here's a good example on an LSx motor's power making ability: the quickest stock bottom end car in the country just went 7.91 at 173.61 mph (it is a 100 % stock internal 5.3, unfortunately it's in a Mustang) .

Fastest Stock Bottom End 5.3 In The World Goes 7.81

I guess my point is that I agree that people now like to chase that 1k hp mark and 9 times out of 10, they end up with a car that's on the ragged edge, and unless doing standing half and/or full mile events, will never use that type of power. I've found that in Vettes/Camaro's/T/A's, the 700-800 rwhp range is that sweet spot. Those are the cars that are Crazy quick and will hurt the 1k powered ones (from a dig, not a roll).

If you're going for bragging rights, then just tell everyone that your 800 rwhp car is making a thousand because if you take them for a ride, they won't know the difference, especially while they're peeing in their pants! :D

Amen

People watch street outlaws and think they want to build one of them for cars shows lol. The down side to any supercharger other than factory stuff is all vacuum based. Makes it tough and if you put in a radical change it makes it worse

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Those cars are whole different animals and are race cars that are "Street Raced", not Street Cars. Just because you put license plates and turn signals, lights, etc on your car, doesn't make it a street car. Those are race cars with lights. Jeff Lutz is a different story because he actually drives his 6 second "Street Car" to Speed Week.

Having had a V2 T trim Vortech on my old C5, I'd say that the two down sides to a blower are pinning the crank and that the blower takes power to make power. By being driven off the crank, it costs power to spin the blower, where a turbo doesn't do that.

a number of years ago we built a car for a customer, the entire time I told the customer repeatedly your going to hate this car, please dont do this, lets do something milder, way more fun, oh no, absolutely wanted that big number, he wanted the superhero status, well he got it

less than a few weeks later called begging to fix the nightmare he had created.....different cam, way less boost = great driveability and lots of fun, still made well over 600 whps, but totally different car, fun car

in my opinion 600 wheel horsepower is the perfect number, fun easy, very reliable, simple, something i would not be afraid to climb into and do the Hot Rod power tour with

Luke>:)
It would've been quite a bit cheaper to listen to your advice in the first place, after all, you've been there (and have a Big Horse Challenger).

I think that a high horse boost controlled turbo car would be perfect for the Power Tour because you can drive around on the low boost setting and then turn it up when the need arises (and we all know that the need always arises :D)

I'm by no means trying to sway someone away from a blower because if you want a nice, driveable 550-600 rwhp car, then you can do it reasonably with a TVS/Eaton/Magnuson and not brake the bank. A centrifugal works well too and are about in the same price range. The deal that you had for Black Friday was a Fantastic one and lets someone make good, upgradeable power for less than the cost of a stroker and all the accompanying goodies.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new and improved Eaton 2650 and what those are going to make for power. I think that we're going to see some BIG power builds using them.

Luke,

Some folks have to learn the hard way.
I agree 1000% Toxic! :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you Luke for taking the time to talk about things and working out buying/shipping arrangements.
 

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Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger

I would sway towards the Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger due to the more opened up runners. Installation is about the same either way. Edelbrock makes a good quality product. They have been in business for a very long time and know what they are doing when it comes to performance parts.
 
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