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2017 Challenger Scat Pack, M6
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I've got a buddy that works on cars a lot. I was in the market to begin tuning my 2017 Challenger (camming, and a tune, yada yada).

He's all worried about the EPA cracking down on "defeat device" makers, which seems to be another term for tuning tools/aftermarket performance accessories (such as the Diablosport tuner) or tuners themselves.

Has anyone else heard word about anything like this? I don't want to start down the rabbit hole of tuning and be midway through a tune/build or something and suddenly I can't contact or do business with my tuner because they were fined and court ordered to "not do that again", kinda thing.

What I've researched, it seems to be more diesel companies that are getting hit, due to emissions related things, but they're not just focused on them.

Here's a short video kind of highlighting/backing up what I'm talking about:
 

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It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case and that would be a terrible thing for this country. It could have the potential to shut down a lot of small businesses. I know this is my first post and I'm not trying to make things too political, but, I imagine the EPA has been very emboldened since 01/20/2021.
 

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Ever think that the EPA could have plants on these forums looking for people who broke the law? I would not be surprised. Glad my car is completely stock. :D
C'mon Frank!

We all know you have a black hood that isn't stock! ;)

The crackdown really started in earnest in 2015, and went after those blatantly advertising deletes, etc.


There is an avenue to have parts certified, but I bet it is expensive

A Guy
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There is an avenue to have parts certified, but I bet it is expensive

A Guy
Yeah, I was looking into it a bit more on SEMA's site and definitions of replacement parts that were "allowed" and such. There was not much. Almost everything required an "executive order" to be put on. I'm not sure if that means I need to get Biden's signature for parts or what but, doesn't sound easy. Makes me have second thoughts about my cam swap.
 

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EO# means the California Air Resources Board (CARB) has signified that the part doesn't increase emissions, it's a state program, not federal. But several states have adopted the standards. To be 50 state legal, a part must have an EO#. There is a lookup site. My AirAid CAI for instance is certified


A Guy
 

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This started somewhere in the early 70’s and was really tightened up in 2015 so it’s nothing new.

The only thing new is for some strange reason they are trying to suddenly enforce some of these rules. Many of the bizarre rules have no influence on making the emission worse.
 

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Nothing new here OP.
The EPA has never been a friend of the car culture at any level, especially so in certain states.
The whole gov has been given a green light to trample down all of American freedoms.
Its also part & parcel in the "right to repair" fight that has ben taking place for 4-5 years now.
Diesel truck guys, John Deere Tractor owners, ATV guys have been in this fight for some time.
The gov, in cooperation with manufacturers themselves, have joined forces to diversify the multiple agentcies & methods of attack that are able to crawl up your @$$.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So how would this theoretically impact someone in the current day doing a fresh engine build/tune with parts that don't have an EO number? I guess theoretically and realistically?
 

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Depends on where you live and whether they do smog testing. It's possible to have a built engine and still pass smog if all equipment is in place (PCV, Cats) as long as the OBD test passes, meaning your tune hasn't turned things off that are needed, etc. If there is a visual test, then headers will not pass

Also this EPA thing is really about manufacturers and retailers selling "off road only" parts. Many are requiring affidavits be signed by the buyer acknowledging that the parts are to be used off road only. Whether this will legally indemnify them should that not be the case, I don't know

Much of the country doesn't test, hence people mod to their hearts content. Mostly it's not these end users who need to worry about the EPA, it's anyone manufacturing and selling performance parts. Back in the day "test pipes" that replaced the cats were very popular. These are obviously meant to bypass emission devices, and regardless of the off road only designation, were illegal for exhaust shops to install

I think parts of an engine that would need an EO# would be cams, heads, headers. Rods, pistons, lifters, cranks generally aren't considered to alter emission equipment

Again, all depends on your locality and at least current testing if any. Future testing is always possble

A Guy
 

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It's getting worse. In some states they now look for data to verify that the calibration in the pcm is correct. There is a calibration ID and a way they can look at the checksum for changes. If you live in California or Massachusetts, they are already enforcing this.

I'm not sure what advice to give, other than not to make any modifications that don't work with your stock tune if your annual inspection requires plugging into the OBD port. It's coming to many areas soon. Many states are recording the data but not enforcing - yet.

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Idiotically, it seems more feasible, per the EPA, to slap a supercharger on the 392 than camming it. I didn't really wanna go that route, and don't think I will. Definitely food for thought.
 

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Most of the time I'm riding the bandwagon with folks hating on the EPA, then later when I'm cruising with the top down and get "clouded" by some arse hat in a diesel... I fall off the wagon coughing & choking. Not sure who's worse: government types with their noses where I don't want 'em, or the bad apples who draw their attention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well from my understanding, those diesel dick ricks are the ones they're currently more geared towards and taking action against. At least as far as making it harder for them to be a diesel dick.
 

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2018 Scat Pack SHAKER in Plum Crazy
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As for cleaning up cars, I gotta admit, it has worked. If any of you non-youngsters seriously remember riding in traffic into the early 1980s, and god forbid stuck in a tunnel and literally having trouble breathing, cars have come a loooooong way due to federal mandate. And probably, all of the improvements in computer controlled EFI. We all have seen the "for off road use only" and we all know that most people don't care, especially in states/counties without emissions inspection.
And while I can be occasionally entertained by someone rolling coal on a prius, the novelty has come and gone about 4 years ago now.
Personally, I don't worry about it at all, keeping legal is actually easy, and better. There is not a performance level I could realistically want, and not be able to afford and enjoy legally, basically I am thereish now. Heck I even put O2 controlled EFI on my 1967 El Camino(no cats though) and the smells just went away.
I am not concerned a bit with companies getting busted making a living by breaking the law. Fight the law if you think it is wrong.
Now if somebody sells parts that someone else uses illegally, that is different, especially if all the disclaimers are intact about off road use only.
Maybe the EPA should sponsor a "emissions legal" drag racing class as a promotion for their efforts. Hmm, I like that idea.
 
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Well from my understanding, those diesel dick ricks are the ones they're currently more geared towards and taking action against. At least as far as making it harder for them to be a diesel dick.
Yep, They give us diesel owners a bad name. They are wasting fuel when they smoke like that. Dumping fuel into the cylinders' before the turbo catches up and its not burned. Its stupid and people will generally hate diesels when they get smoked like that.
Mine never makes smoke like that.
best regards
parrott
 

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Idiotically, it seems more feasible, per the EPA, to slap a supercharger on the 392 than camming it. I didn't really wanna go that route, and don't think I will. Definitely food for thought.
Possibly. In theory you could re-install the stock injectors and map sensor, pull the blower belt and flash in the stock tune to get through inspection. Of course, that would still be breaking the law, but it would probably work. Seems easier to trade for a Hellcat though.
 

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I haad to go out of state because local shops including my shop wouldnt touch my car. I added headers exhaust and unlocked PCM tune. Seriously, it sucks going out of state. My engine builder for my trans am 408 said he had a surprise inspection from EPA and they had to pull license plates fast!
 
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