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Green Man JBA Header Install

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All,

Here is the link to pictures I took during the JBA installation on December 1 and 2.

http://s1101.photobucket.com/albums/g43 ... 20Install/

Lessons learned...

1. After cleaning the headers I saw evidence of rust right away. The first header I washed with soap and water...bad idea, it got rusty overnight. The 2nd one I cleaned with Isopropol alcohol...no rust. Also, there was lots of rough welds around the ports, so I took a dremel and ground them smooth.

2. I opted to paint my headers flat grey with the VHT high temp header paint ($8). I cured it in the oven, per the can label, the day after Thanksgiving. I could not find a local place that did ceramic coating, and ceramic coating was another $300 from JBA.

3. Have a solid pair of steel ramps. Challengers are heavy, so don't buy the plastic death ramps from Harbor Freight. New steel ones on eBay cost $45, each ramp is rated at 2000 lbs (Peterson Tru-Cut Ultra Loading Ramps #UR650 ). To keep the front spoiler from scraping on the ramp I had to put two 1" thick panels before each tire. That lifted the tire enough for the ramp to clear the spoiler while driving up. (RACE RAMPS ARE BEST).

4. Set aside at least 2 full days if you are working by yourself. You can't complete this in one day, unless you have a buddy and access to a car lift. Also, buy a package of disposable rubber gloves...these are a must to save your hands.

5. Have a good assortment of metric tools from 10mm to 18mm. Have both short and deep sockets. An assortment of swivels, extensions and open end wrenches is also needed. Once I sized up my tool arsenal I went to Sears and spent $77 on more Craftsman tools.

6. Have a reliable hydraulic floor jack to lift the engine and some solid blocks of wood.

7. I took the cats and mid-pipes off first. This was my first encounter with trouble. The entire MBRP cat-back system slides up to the mid-pipes from the back so I had to drop the ENTIRE cat-back system...ouch.

8. I did the passenger side first because it's supposed to be the hardest...yes it was. The instructions say to remove the motor mount to get access to the manifold bolts. This is not totally true, you need to jack the engine up to give room for the heat shield removal and to drop the stock exhaust. The evil detail is the alternator brace needs to come off before you can get one of the motor mount bolts out. The problem is the alternator bracket bolts to the motor mount. That bolt has a stud that hits the frame so you can't get the last motor mount bolt out. I had to saw off the stud, then the bolt went forward enough to get a 15mm deep socket on the last motor mount bolt. That alone took about 1 hour to figure out what to do. Once it was loose, the engine jacked up enough to get the heat shield and manifold out. FYI, the heat shield had to be bent around to get it off. Before that the O2 sensor had to to be taken off. An 22mm open end wrench or 7/8 open end works. It is very tight and requires umph to loosen (caution: potential knuckle buster).

9. You need to remove the oil filter and loosen two hose clamps to get the hoses out of the way. This gives better access to the front part of the header. Note: make sure you have a catch bucket under the oil filter, oil will slosh out when you loosen it.

10. I bought a set of stock 5.7L Mopar exhaust gaskets. They come with a built in heat shield. Cost $15.

Part numbers...
Passenger side: 53032966AF
Driver side: 53032965AF

11. The dipstick on the passenger side also had an issue with the spacer. JBA made it the same length as the thickness of the stock manifold. Really, it's the difference between the stock manifold thickness and the JBA header flange. I had to cut it down to 0.73" and the dipstick went back in fine (once I got the stock stud bolt in the right hole).

12. Passenger side header went in okay. The M8 bolts that came with the JBA kit had 3/8" heads which made getting the bolts in much easier. I noticed the bolts seemed a little short compared to the stock bolts. They could have been 8mm longer and provided more threads into the head. I surmise they made them shorter to make it easier to use the wrenches and sockets. I also used the green high temp Locktite on the threads. For 1 bolt I needed to use the "rubber hose" trick to hold it to get the threads started. Everything was re-tightened and the alternator bracket is now only attached on one side...so be it, I don't think the brace was needed anyway.

13. The driver side was much easier. I did get the motor mount lifted almost off to make header bolt installation easier. But getting the motor mount back on was a pain.

14. Once both sides were all tight I put the cats and mid-pipes back on. They were both tight, but the alignment at the H-pipe section looked wrong. I had to loosen the Cat bolts a bit to get the H-pipe on and the rest of the cat-back system. The Cat flange has two degrees of freedom, it can rotate slightly on axis and rock side to side. These are booth needed to get the ends for the H-pipe section to align. Not easy to do when laying on your bruised back. My arms felt like I flew in from Chicago.

15. I got all the Cat-back exhaust re-installed and started up the Green Man.

16. The pair of JBA headers weighed 16.2 lbs and the stock manifolds weighed 26 lbs...a 9.8 lb weight savings.

First impression is the exhaust seems a bit quieter and mellow. It also sounds smoother at idle. The throttle response seems a bit quicker. Until I get back on a dyno, I won't know what the HP gains are...I don't trust the calibration of my cheap butt dyno.

Under the hood, I could hear a faint sound of possible exhaust leaks, but it was not loud enough to hear with the hood closed. After a week and 35 miles the engine leak sounds are almost gone. In a while, I'll get under there and re-tighten everything.

That's it. Not easy at all, and now I know why an auto shop would charge $1000 to put these in; this is labor and time intensive to say the least. But, on the bright side, the exhaust system is done, and if I want to add a supercharger, I know I can breath well.

Cheers,

Green Man
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Header install

I am doing the same to my car but I do have a lift and was able to remove both sides without jacking the engine at all. The heat shields I did just pull out and bent some but my car only has 2000 miles and has never been driven in ran so it is still as clean as new.
That said I am thinking of doing work again on cars in my shop if the need is good as it was years ago I might just do it full time again.
I have a machine shop and getting this car has made me fall in lust again working on cars I even worked on my kids car last weekend and had a good time.
If I can fig out how to post pics I will of my car and all the work I have been doing along the way
 

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Question to the OP (yes I know it's a 10 month old thread), have you had to re-tighten the bolts at all? And are they sufficient for the job, or would you recommend someone get a new set of OEM bolts for the job? I am going to get this done in about two weeks and while I think the supplied bolts are sufficient, I am wondering if the oem bolts would be preferred?
 

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Question to the OP (yes I know it's a 10 month old thread), have you had to re-tighten the bolts at all? And are they sufficient for the job, or would you recommend someone get a new set of OEM bolts for the job? I am going to get this done in about two weeks and while I think the supplied bolts are sufficient, I am wondering if the oem bolts would be preferred?
You can't use OEM bolts because they are too long, thus why the headers come with new bolts of the correct length. I can't comment on the OP, but I checked a number of my bolts at random after a number of heat cycles and didn't find any loose. I've only had mine on for a couple of months or so, though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Yes, Hogan is correct, the OEM bolts are too long. I also believe the ones supplied are too short. I put lock washers on the supplied bolts and locktite on the threads because they looked a bit wimpy. On several of the bolts there is no room for a torque wrench so you have to use your best judgement for torque. I did find several to be loose several months later. One was ready to fall out. For that setup there may not be enough threads engaged.

I found longer better ones at Mcmaster-Carr (McMaster-Carr). You want the metric vibration resistant flange-head medium-strength steel bolts. M8, Pitch 1.25mm. Several lengths are available, 30mm will probably work best (92820A435). I suggest getting some steel washers in case the closest length you buy bottoms out. When I get around to it, I'm replacing all the header bolts with these.

Regards,

Green Man
 

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How odd, the guy who's doing my install told me to get 6.1/6.4 OEM header bolts for the install of my JBA, are they different than the ones that are OEM for the 5.7? Hmmm, well whatever... Thanks for the input though,
 

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How odd, the guy who's doing my install told me to get 6.1/6.4 OEM header bolts for the install of my JBA, are they different than the ones that are OEM for the 5.7? Hmmm, well whatever... Thanks for the input though,
Since the 6.1/6.4 are OEM headers with a typical flange it looks like OEM 6.1/6.4 bolts should work fine, they are different than the 5.7L manifolds and use different hardware. I just used the lock washers and bolts that came with my JBA headers.
 
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I'm getting ready to put JBA's on my 5.7. Does anyone know what the torque is for the header bolts, or where I can find this information?
 

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I'm getting ready to put JBA's on my 5.7. Does anyone know what the torque is for the header bolts, or where I can find this information?
The exhaust manifold to the cylinder head bolts should be torqued to 18 ft. lbs according to the Chrysler Tech authority manual for the 5.7L
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Gila Hemi,

I did not torque mine...but they are really tight with hi-temp Locktite. It's almost impossible to tighten some of the bolts. I could barely get a wrench in there to tighten them. A torque wrench will be larger/longer and may not even fit in the space between the header and body panel. I'm sure the exhaust manifolds are bolted and torqued to the heads before the engine gets dropped in. If you do this install yourself it will be difficult. Access to a lift would be great...if you don't, then buy a pair of Race Ramps. If you have the $$ take it to an experienced mechanic.

Very Best,

Green Man
 

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For my header install, I used OEM 6.1/6.4 header bolts that come pre-treated with a heat activated thread locker. I used a torque wrench on one of the bolts that was accessible, then put a box end wrench on that bolt to get a feel for the torque value, then replicated that amount of torque to the remaining bolts... The nice thing about the OEM bolts is once you start the car, you don't have to worry about retorqueing the header bolts, as the heat activated thread sealant keeps 'em tight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
cannonballcobb,

So you torqed 1 bolt you could access with a torque wrench and then hand tightened the rest to what felt like the same twisting force?

Do you have a part number for the 6.1/6.4 factory bolts?

How did you deal with the bolt that holds the oil dip stick tube?

Our friend Gila Hemi needs all the good advice he can get before taking this plunge.

Thanks,

Green Man
 

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Thanks for the great pics and write up i am doing headers soon and it will help!!


Gila Hemi,

I did not torque mine...but they are really tight with hi-temp Locktite. It's almost impossible to tighten some of the bolts. I could barely get a wrench in there to tighten them. A torque wrench will be larger/longer and may not even fit in the space between the header and body panel. I'm sure the exhaust manifolds are bolted and torqued to the heads before the engine gets dropped in. If you do this install yourself it will be difficult. Access to a lift would be great...if you don't, then buy a pair of Race Ramps. If you have the $$ take it to an experienced mechanic.

Very Best,

Green Man
 

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Thanks for the help Green Man!

It's my understanding that I need to use the bolts that come with the headers from JBA, as they're a different length from the stocks bolts.

BTW, my headers arrived yesterday, but I received the wrong ones. I ordered them with ceramic coating, and that's not what I got. Not entirely a big deal, because the JBA mid-pipes haven't arrived yet, but it will still be a hassle to resolve.


cannonballcobb,

So you torqed 1 bolt you could access with a torque wrench and then hand tightened the rest to what felt like the same twisting force?

Do you have a part number for the 6.1/6.4 factory bolts?

How did you deal with the bolt that holds the oil dip stick tube?

Our friend Gila Hemi needs all the good advice he can get before taking this plunge.

Thanks,

Green Man
 

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cannonballcobb,

So you torqed 1 bolt you could access with a torque wrench and then hand tightened the rest to what felt like the same twisting force? Exactly

Do you have a part number for the 6.1/6.4 factory bolts? 6503131

How did you deal with the bolt that holds the oil dip stick tube? IIRC, I reused one 5.7 bolt in combination with a spacer.

Our friend Gila Hemi needs all the good advice he can get before taking this plunge.

Thanks,

Green Man
.....
 
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I JUST got done with my JBA shortys this weekend with the help of a friend with a lift and another that is a chrysler tech.The 3 of us took around 5 hours taking our time and a bunch of breaks along the way.I am so glad i didnt do them on my ramps in my garage i am too old for that now 46?I got the 6.4 gaskets and bolts from mopar after looking at the 6.4 gaskets they matched perfect but they dont have the hole in them for the egr on the passenger side after checking the head it has the port but it goes nowhere(its blocked off on the out side of the head) even the auto doesn't have egr valve so we used the gasket with no problems.Also i didn't have to jack the motor at all but it was tight getting the last bolt in top on pass side.THE HARDWARE IS ALL JUNK THAT JBA GIVES YOU THROW IT ALL OUT(I even bought SS bolts and nuts for the headerflange to the cats get 2" ones they give you 2 1/2")!!!For the oil dipstick i used the stock bolt and made my own spacer out of round stock about 1/2".I did not have a problem with that alt bracket but i will say it is tight as heck.Also every kind of swivel 10mm socket and ratchet boxed wrenches help out the best we did the same with torque but i thought we torqued to like 24 lbs?
Now i will say i noticed the difference right away with lots of power and the sound is awesome.I would say i gained at least 20hp now before you start thinking im crazy i did the 6.4 cam swap last year and i felt it was down on power a little and i blame that on the stock ex manifold as i already have the solo cat back with the high flow cats now my car feels like it should all worth the hard work!
thanks for the help green man and cannon!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well done 09Titanium!! 5 hours sounds like a record. Seems I did it the hard way. I think the 5.7L gaskets have the hole for the EGR because mine lined up fine. You have a tuner right? I'd like to know your dyno numbers with the Cam+Headers+Cat back tuned. With a good tune your RWHP should be +400.
Very Best, Green Man
 
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