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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

Not trying to start a flame war, just an honest discovery while I wait to order a 2019 WB Hellcat or WB Hellcat Special Edition. Since patience is not a virtue I have, I decided to see what other performance car options are on the market as I am a gear-head and as long as it's American and badass I am interested.

I've had a number of Vettes and they do not excite me anymore. I currently have a 2017 GT350 (great car) and in my search came upon the Camaro ZL1 1LE. After a fair amount of research, It appears to be a badass car and it's sweet looking too. Additionally, a loaded ZL1 1LE is at least $5K cheaper than a loaded WBHC. I actually priced a few and can get one for Invoice plus a current GM rebate offer that would be another $3k off, so a 1LE would run $67,500 not including tax/tags.

I also found this very interesting. The WB option on the HC is $7,500 and essentially only adds wider wheels/tires and fender flares. The 1LE Extreme Performance package is ironically also $7,500, but gives you;

Black hood wrap
Unique front splitter
Front dive planes
Exposed carbon fiber weave hood insert
Exposed weave carbon fiber rear spoiler
Low-gloss Black outside rearview mirrors
Dark tail lamps
19" low gloss Black-painted forged aluminum wheels with Goodyear® Eagle® F1 SuperCar 3R 305/30R19 front and 325/30R19 rear, summer-only tires1
Red calipers with 1LE logo
Performance suspension with DSSV™ dampers, adjustable camber plates, rear stabilizer bars (3 positions) and front spring seats

Needless to say, GM is giving you a crap load more for the same $7,500 than Dodge is and I can only assume they will bump the price additionally for the Special edition model. Seems to me that Dodge is pricing themselves out of the market here. I really hope the 2019 new hood on the WBs and special edition model are awesome or I may go the 1LE route instead.

Regards.
 

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Two totally different cars. It's like comparing a Honda Civic to a Ford F-150.

Buy what you like. I was actually going to order a new Camaro until I drove one. The Camaro interior felt like sitting in a small box with the sides collapsing in all around.
 

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People forget what the Hellcat was designed to do. Go really fast in a straight line period.

Mopar or No Car
 

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Two totally different cars. It's like comparing a Honda Civic to a Ford F-150.

Buy what you like. I was actually going to order a new Camaro until I drove one. The Camaro interior felt like sitting in a small box with the sides collapsing in all around.
You're kidding yourself if you don't think people cross shop the ZL1 and the hellcat. Obviously the Camaro is a better track car and the Hellcat is roomier, bigger, heavier, doesn't turn as well, etc. but that doesn't mean it's that huge of a difference.
 
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Seems that some of the CATS stock features are the same as the hi dollar Camaro.
Red Brembo 6 piston calipers
Black wheels
Adjustable suspension and you can get a Black hood.
Mine also has RED seat belts.
I'm also taking my HELLCAT on a trip to Florida from NY, how big is the trunk of a Camaro?
And cruising at 70-80 mph with my 8 speed auto, I get 25 mpg with the engine turning less than 2000rpm.
 

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The Camaro is a badass car. Unfortunately for GM the second I sat in it, it was off my list. The interior felt small and claustrophobic, the side windows alone are super small and as a down side would be impossible to use for emergency egress if needed. I'm not a big person, so I can't imagine for a bigger built guy how that would feel. It's to bad really because it's an awesome performance machine.
 

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Hello all,

Not trying to start a flame war, just an honest discovery while I wait to order a 2019 WB Hellcat or WB Hellcat Special Edition. Since patience is not a virtue I have, I decided to see what other performance car options are on the market as I am a gear-head and as long as it's American and badass I am interested.

I've had a number of Vettes and they do not excite me anymore. I currently have a 2017 GT350 (great car) and in my search came upon the Camaro ZL1 1LE. After a fair amount of research, It appears to be a badass car and it's sweet looking too. Additionally, a loaded ZL1 1LE is at least $5K cheaper than a loaded WBHC. I actually priced a few and can get one for Invoice plus a current GM rebate offer that would be another $3k off, so a 1LE would run $67,500 not including tax/tags.

I also found this very interesting. The WB option on the HC is $7,500 and essentially only adds wider wheels/tires and fender flares. The 1LE Extreme Performance package is ironically also $7,500, but gives you;

Black hood wrap
Unique front splitter
Front dive planes
Exposed carbon fiber weave hood insert
Exposed weave carbon fiber rear spoiler
Low-gloss Black outside rearview mirrors
Dark tail lamps
19" low gloss Black-painted forged aluminum wheels with Goodyear® Eagle® F1 SuperCar 3R 305/30R19 front and 325/30R19 rear, summer-only tires1
Red calipers with 1LE logo
Performance suspension with DSSV™ dampers, adjustable camber plates, rear stabilizer bars (3 positions) and front spring seats

Needless to say, GM is giving you a crap load more for the same $7,500 than Dodge is and I can only assume they will bump the price additionally for the Special edition model. Seems to me that Dodge is pricing themselves out of the market here. I really hope the 2019 new hood on the WBs and special edition model are awesome or I may go the 1LE route instead.

Regards.
Since it seems you have no big issue with what I'd personally call a BUTT UGLY Camaro I could only drive at night and I'd almost certainly have to hide it in the garage by day.

You sound like you're going to buy the Camaro...... I say this based in what you've owned in the past and what is likely to be what you've gotten used to and what may turn out to be a HUGE disappointment if you buy a Hell Cat.

If you're a "gear head" then you should be able to appreciate the idea that making the Camaro FASTER than a Hell Cat is far easier than making the Hell Cat out perform the Camaro on any stretch of winding pavement.

If you've been driving new Corvettes and you're currently in a GT350. I hope you take a Hell Cat for a serious ride before buying. It's a GREAT LOOKING car and plenty fast in straight line but I do wonder if you really appreciate that it will in no way come even remotely close to the road handling potential of your current Mustang or the Corvettes you've driven in the past.

I'm actually pretty surprised you're struggling with this. For me it'd be very easy.

The two cars you're comparing here are VERY DIFFERENT.
 

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You're kidding yourself if you don't think people cross shop the ZL1 and the hellcat. Obviously the Camaro is a better track car and the Hellcat is roomier, bigger, heavier, doesn't turn as well, etc. but that doesn't mean it's that huge of a difference.
The difference, in my opinion is very huge.
 

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The visual impact of a "Fat Cat" is difficult to improve upon. I want one so bad I can taste it. I can't think of any Camaro or Mustang variant that can compete with that visual experience.
 

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Every time I see the Camaro, I wonder when Batman is going to jump out and reclaim his car.
 

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If performance is your thing, the ZL1 1LE really nails it. The track capability of that car is second to none in this class. I would respectfully disagree with those who think a Challenger Hellcat and a Camaro ZL1 are completely different cars. They are both RWD pony/muscle cars with supercharged monster V8s, and they share a common demographic and lineage. I'm a Mopar guy but there is no denying you're getting some real performance value in the Camaro.

That said, don't underestimate a HC WB either. You get more power than the Camaro, and the wide track + revised steering system really helps put that power down. I imagine some sticky track tires in the stock wide 305/35/20 size would make the HC WB a real machine on a road course. A ZL1 1LE wouldn't be able to leave you in the dust if you're any good.
 

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If performance is your thing, the ZL1 1LE really nails it. The track capability of that car is second to none in this class. I would respectfully disagree with those who think a Challenger Hellcat and a Camaro ZL1 are completely different cars. They are both RWD pony/muscle cars with supercharged monster V8s, and they share a common demographic and lineage. I'm a Mopar guy but there is no denying you're getting some real performance value in the Camaro.

That said, don't underestimate a HC WB either. You get more power than the Camaro, and the wide track + revised steering system really helps put that power down. I imagine some sticky track tires in the stock wide 305/35/20 size would make the HC WB a real machine on a road course. A ZL1 1LE wouldn't be able to leave you in the dust if you're any good.
Uh.....NO!

You'd get SLAUGHTERED on a road course. Chrysler never put in the effort here and wider tires on a Hell Cat isn't gonna get the job done.

I'd agree with your comment about the comparable nature of the Camaro vs Challenger. But anyone buying the Hell Cat should understand what they are giving up when they choose the heavier car with FAR LESS emphasis on track capable handling and braking.

Then again......the buyer of the Camaro should understand that the track capability he's getting in his choice comes at a SERIOUS cost. Maybe for this buyer driving a car too funny looking to be seen in is worth it but I sure can't get there. I'd have to hide it out of sight in the Garage by day and only drive it at night.

The Camaro is the equivalent of the sex crazy girl you might know but need a few beers first to get past that face......sure she's good, maybe even the best but God forbid you turn the lights on or sober a bit while doing it.
 

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If performance is your thing, the ZL1 1LE really nails it. The track capability of that car is second to none in this class. I would respectfully disagree with those who think a Challenger Hellcat and a Camaro ZL1 are completely different cars. They are both RWD pony/muscle cars with supercharged monster V8s, and they share a common demographic and lineage. I'm a Mopar guy but there is no denying you're getting some real performance value in the Camaro.

That said, don't underestimate a HC WB either. You get more power than the Camaro, and the wide track + revised steering system really helps put that power down. I imagine some sticky track tires in the stock wide 305/35/20 size would make the HC WB a real machine on a road course. A ZL1 1LE wouldn't be able to leave you in the dust if you're any good.
Uh.....NO!

You'd get SLAUGHTERED on a road course. Chrysler never put in the effort here and wider tires on a Hell Cat isn't gonna get the job done.

I'd agree with your comment about the comparable nature of the Camaro vs Challenger. But anyone buying the Hell Cat should understand what they are giving up when they choose the heavier car with FAR LESS emphasis on track capable handling and braking.

Then again......the buyer of the Camaro should understand that the track capability he's getting in his choice comes at a SERIOUS cost. Maybe for this buyer driving a car too funny looking to be seen in is worth it but I sure can't get there. I'd have to hide it out of sight in the Garage by day and only drive it at night.

The Camaro is the equivalent of the sex crazy girl you might know but need a few beers first to get past that face......sure she's good, maybe even the best but God forbid you turn the lights on or sober a bit while doing it.
You're pretty much right, I guess I should clarify that it would take a pretty good driver. With that extra power, then maybe a road course with long straights? All I'm saying is that they aren't in completely different leagues. But the ZL1 1LE will indeed have the advantage. I'm not sure slaughtered is the right word though. The HC WB is no slouch, and you could possibly even the gap with sticky tires.

Your analogy about the beers is right on. I actually laughed out loud.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Uh.....NO!

You'd get SLAUGHTERED on a road course. Chrysler never put in the effort here and wider tires on a Hell Cat isn't gonna get the job done.

I'd agree with your comment about the comparable nature of the Camaro vs Challenger. But anyone buying the Hell Cat should understand what they are giving up when they choose the heavier car with FAR LESS emphasis on track capable handling and braking.

Then again......the buyer of the Camaro should understand that the track capability he's getting in his choice comes at a SERIOUS cost. Maybe for this buyer driving a car too funny looking to be seen in is worth it but I sure can't get there. I'd have to hide it out of sight in the Garage by day and only drive it at night.

The Camaro is the equivalent of the sex crazy girl you might know but need a few beers first to get past that face......sure she's good, maybe even the best but God forbid you turn the lights on or sober a bit while doing it.
Dude, you sound like an ahole. Personally, I think the flat bodied challengers are ugly as f*ck and I have never considered one over the past decade because it's so ugly. The WB HC is the first time these bricks with a big ass engine have looked good. I know the variances between them and what they are best at. They both offer great things, they just delivery it differently. I was hoping I could have a reasonable conversation because these cars are both on the top of the American Muscle car mountain, but there is always some d-bag with a major inferiority complex that has to bash anything he doesn't care for. Go back to playing with your play-station and posting on twitter kid.
 

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Dude, you sound like an ahole. Personally, I think the flat bodied challengers are ugly as f*ck and I have never considered one over the past decade because it's so ugly. The WB HC is the first time these bricks with a big ass engine have looked good. I know the variances between them and what they are best at. They both offer great things, they just delivery it differently. I was hoping I could have a reasonable conversation because these cars are both on the top of the American Muscle car mountain, but there is always some d-bag with a major inferiority complex that has to bash anything he doesn't care for. Go back to playing with your play-station and posting on twitter kid.
Settle down Skippy!

If your feelings get hurt that easily......you may be in over your head already in this discussion.

BTW- you do understand WHERE YOU ARE as you post?



.....are you SURE you understand who the "A-hole" is in this situation? Do you have any mirrors in the house? Might help in the search for the obvious.
 

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Hello all,

Not trying to start a flame war, just an honest discovery while I wait to order a 2019 WB Hellcat or WB Hellcat Special Edition. Since patience is not a virtue I have, I decided to see what other performance car options are on the market as I am a gear-head and as long as it's American and badass I am interested.

I've had a number of Vettes and they do not excite me anymore. I currently have a 2017 GT350 (great car) and in my search came upon the Camaro ZL1 1LE. After a fair amount of research, It appears to be a badass car and it's sweet looking too. Additionally, a loaded ZL1 1LE is at least $5K cheaper than a loaded WBHC. I actually priced a few and can get one for Invoice plus a current GM rebate offer that would be another $3k off, so a 1LE would run $67,500 not including tax/tags.

I also found this very interesting. The WB option on the HC is $7,500 and essentially only adds wider wheels/tires and fender flares. The 1LE Extreme Performance package is ironically also $7,500, but gives you;

Black hood wrap
Unique front splitter
Front dive planes
Exposed carbon fiber weave hood insert
Exposed weave carbon fiber rear spoiler
Low-gloss Black outside rearview mirrors
Dark tail lamps
19" low gloss Black-painted forged aluminum wheels with Goodyear® Eagle® F1 SuperCar 3R 305/30R19 front and 325/30R19 rear, summer-only tires1
Red calipers with 1LE logo
Performance suspension with DSSV™ dampers, adjustable camber plates, rear stabilizer bars (3 positions) and front spring seats

Needless to say, GM is giving you a crap load more for the same $7,500 than Dodge is and I can only assume they will bump the price additionally for the Special edition model. Seems to me that Dodge is pricing themselves out of the market here. I really hope the 2019 new hood on the WBs and special edition model are awesome or I may go the 1LE route instead.

Regards.
The price alone gives the Camaro the edge plus your getting DSSV spool dampers best in the industry.

Im kinda hanging out to see what Dodge can do. The chassis is top notch suspension layout etc just need the right parts to tweek it up a bit...steal some stuff from Alfa etc.


Year old Corvette grand sports are right there in that price range.
 

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I know everyone has their own opinion, but IMO (and I think most "car guys" would agree) the ZL1-1LE is beautiful thing...



I love my Challenger, but if I had the dough to pickup one of these bad boys, I wouldn't even consider a Hellcat. Sorry, JMO.
 

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Hello all,

Not trying to start a flame war, just an honest discovery while I wait to order a 2019 WB Hellcat or WB Hellcat Special Edition. Since patience is not a virtue I have, I decided to see what other performance car options are on the market as I am a gear-head and as long as it's American and badass I am interested.

I've had a number of Vettes and they do not excite me anymore. I currently have a 2017 GT350 (great car) and in my search came upon the Camaro ZL1 1LE. After a fair amount of research, It appears to be a badass car and it's sweet looking too. Additionally, a loaded ZL1 1LE is at least $5K cheaper than a loaded WBHC. I actually priced a few and can get one for Invoice plus a current GM rebate offer that would be another $3k off, so a 1LE would run $67,500 not including tax/tags.

I also found this very interesting. The WB option on the HC is $7,500 and essentially only adds wider wheels/tires and fender flares. The 1LE Extreme Performance package is ironically also $7,500, but gives you;

Black hood wrap
Unique front splitter
Front dive planes
Exposed carbon fiber weave hood insert
Exposed weave carbon fiber rear spoiler
Low-gloss Black outside rearview mirrors
Dark tail lamps
19" low gloss Black-painted forged aluminum wheels with Goodyear® Eagle® F1 SuperCar 3R 305/30R19 front and 325/30R19 rear, summer-only tires1
Red calipers with 1LE logo
Performance suspension with DSSV™ dampers, adjustable camber plates, rear stabilizer bars (3 positions) and front spring seats

Needless to say, GM is giving you a crap load more for the same $7,500 than Dodge is and I can only assume they will bump the price additionally for the Special edition model. Seems to me that Dodge is pricing themselves out of the market here. I really hope the 2019 new hood on the WBs and special edition model are awesome or I may go the 1LE route instead.

Regards.
if your going to turn currently the only choice is the Camaro, sorry guys, first two even of the season, lots of Mustangs, the winner both events the Camaro.....
 

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Like some others I find this discussion very odd. The WB Hellcat Challenger is the same car we all know as a great grand touring car but with flares and wider tires and wheels. It is not a track focused car by any means. Sure, it's better than a 275/40 car, but purely because of wider tires/wheels. There is no suspension refinement or weight loss needed to make it competitive as a track focused car.
However, the ZL1 1LE would punish you on the street. I'd almost never drive it. Just trailer it to a road course.
What do you want out of a car, because these 2 cars are not comparable in any way other than they both have 4 tires and are V8 RWD cars.
I will say I'm one of the rare few that takes mine to track days when I have the time. The car is a blast on a high speed road course like Nelson Ledges, Brainerd, Road America, VIR, etc. Against a ZL1 or even Corvette C7 I can definitely hold my own unless the Chevy has a pro driver. Basically all I've done is MP springs, some chassis bracing, 10/11" F/R wheels with 295/35 Pirelli r compound tires. However, I'm under no illusion that same driver, same track comparisons would have me within 3 seconds of a well driven ZL1 if that car also had r compound tires. Most all the guys I come up against are not as experienced and don't have soft tires. Those guys I can embarrass easily.
 
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