Dodge Challenger Forum banner

Delivery Month

  • June - Best Case

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • July - Expected Case

    Votes: 11 40.7%
  • August/September - Worst case

    Votes: 9 33.3%
  • Later / Failure

    Votes: 6 22.2%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
21 - 40 of 294 Posts

·
Registered
On Order - 2020 Scat Pack Hellraisin Shaker
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Northern New Jersey, 35 minutes west of New York City.
I understand the situation at your daughter's hospital, but that is not representative of the entire nation. It is frustrating for the non-urban people - the restrictions are right for the big city, but they are not for the rest of us. I am in a county of 15 cases & 0 deaths. "Social distancing" is a normal way of life. For illustration, I can easily hit my neighbors house with a rifle round, but I would be hard pressed to do so with a pistol -- if that gives you any idea how dispersed we live. Continuing a NYC style closure/lockdown in my community does not make sense.

Here in IL the number of cases still appear to be going up slightly. But they're also testing a lot more people.
Here is a question that is tough to answer... Are the cases actually going up? Remember, a few weeks ago the medical facilities were screaming for test kits. Symptomatic people could not get tests. Now they have all the kits needed along with drive-through test facilities. As a result it is possible there were more unconfirmed & unreported cases a few weeks ago, and identical cases currently are being reported. Ultimately we can never know the answer. However, it does cast doubt on to the 'going up slightly' trend of the data.

-Eric
 

·
Registered
On Order - 2020 Scat Pack Hellraisin Shaker
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Brampton will have similar results in my opinion. Unifor makes the UAW look tame when it comes to HSE.
Looks like you forecast that one right. No re-opening in sight as of April 27th. Source

Interesting how the union notice blames 'the company' for rescinding the re-open date. I suspect you are right - everyone is enjoying their time off, and no one raised their hand to come back - thus forcing 'the company' to make the decision.

-Eric
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,402 Posts
Well that's disappointing but obviously the priority is on worker safety so we'll wait until conditions improve.

Ontario has over 14,000 cases and 900 deaths and new cases at 640 in the greater Toronto area last Friday so still a ways to go.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2020 HellRaisin 1320
Joined
·
217 Posts
Well, can't say I'm surprised they delayed it. I would of been more surprised if they didn't honestly. But this is where I just need to sign off for a while. Gotta try and re-focus on other things. I dove too deep too fast.
 

·
Registered
On Order - 2020 Scat Pack Hellraisin Shaker
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
I guess I don't understand an automotive production line. Just how closely do people work together? Are they closer than a grocery store? Closer than a corporate office cube farm?

Do people work really close on the production line, for example Andy installs the drivers side of the dash simultaneously while Bob installs the passenger side? Yes, they work close together. But there is no randomness like a public area. They know they have been in close contact, but most importantly they know who they have been in close contact with. If Andy gets sick, Bob knows he has been in contact - it is not a guessing game like random public contact. Sort of like my immediate family, there is no randomness. There is no 6-foot separation rule at my house.

What about downstream on the production line? Let's say Andy and Bob get sick. Yes, anyone downstream might have picked up something off the surfaces. However, let's say the next stop was installing the motor. What would the motor people be doing inside the driver's compartment where the surface contamination is supposed to exist? Sure at the final stage someone gets back in to the vehicle and starts it, and they could be exposed to a surface contaminate. Some gloves & a mask should limit that risk significantly. But again, the randomness is gone. We know who has been where and doing what. Going back to a grocery store example, it is not like the downstream people are being handed a grocery cart with no idea who the last person was who used it.

It just seems to me the risks associated with an automotive production line are less than the risks associated with something like grocery shopping. The contact is not random. Control measures can be enforced - ie: masks required. Screening implemented to ensure only healthy people are admitted.

The reaction and fear does not appear to be in-line with what we consider acceptable risks elsewhere, and that is the head-scratcher for me. :unsure:
 

·
Registered
2020 HellRaisin 1320
Joined
·
217 Posts
Here's a couple videos I found showing the assembly process at Brampton. Gives you a good idea of what goes on.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,402 Posts
There's some close contact in this video but I guess they will try to stay further apart when they reopen. Cross contamination still an issue even with gloves and can't see how they're gonna work a full shift wearing a mask. Just a tough situation.




Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I guess I don't understand an automotive production line. Just how closely do people work together? Are they closer than a grocery store? Closer than a corporate office cube farm?

Do people work really close on the production line, for example Andy installs the drivers side of the dash simultaneously while Bob installs the passenger side? Yes, they work close together. But there is no randomness like a public area. They know they have been in close contact, but most importantly they know who they have been in close contact with. If Andy gets sick, Bob knows he has been in contact - it is not a guessing game like random public contact. Sort of like my immediate family, there is no randomness. There is no 6-foot separation rule at my house.

What about downstream on the production line? Let's say Andy and Bob get sick. Yes, anyone downstream might have picked up something off the surfaces. However, let's say the next stop was installing the motor. What would the motor people be doing inside the driver's compartment where the surface contamination is supposed to exist? Sure at the final stage someone gets back in to the vehicle and starts it, and they could be exposed to a surface contaminate. Some gloves & a mask should limit that risk significantly. But again, the randomness is gone. We know who has been where and doing what. Going back to a grocery store example, it is not like the downstream people are being handed a grocery cart with no idea who the last person was who used it.

It just seems to me the risks associated with an automotive production line are less than the risks associated with something like grocery shopping. The contact is not random. Control measures can be enforced - ie: masks required. Screening implemented to ensure only healthy people are admitted.

The reaction and fear does not appear to be in-line with what we consider acceptable risks elsewhere, and that is the head-scratcher for me. :unsure:
Eric,

You aren't wrong. Autoworkers generally work in groups, they work in close proximity to those next to them. They are no closer than people going to a grocery store.

The difference is that the UAW and Unifor have influence with the state governments and are not considered essential workers like grocery store, bank and gas station employees are.

They are basically only allowed to strike with permission from International during a CBA negotiation or over HSE issues. When the FCA plants didn't clean, provide PPE or give people paid time off if they started to show symptoms of COVID19, the plants sat down.

Fearing the financial impact that GM felt over the failed CBA negotiations last year, the Big 3 and the UAW went to the government and told them that automotive is not essential work and FCA sent everyone home on indefinite layoff.

This is politics. If they close because of a government order, one they participated in creating, they are eligible for rescue funds from our Federal Government eventually.

Had they opposed the order and fought and stayed open and the union went on strike over HSE concerns and then they closed due to labor dispute, no government rescue funds.

The grocery unions and ununionized employees deemed essential workers don't have the voice in government that the Auto Industry has. No one is lobbying for them, which is why it wasn't until this week that Kroger, Meijer and other grocery stores were required to provide employees with masks and gloves.
 

·
Registered
On Order - 2020 Scat Pack Hellraisin Shaker
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
...This is politics. If they close because of a government order, one they participated in creating, they are eligible for rescue funds from our Federal Government eventually....
Okay, now this is starting to make sense. This isn't about worker safety relative to other acceptable virus related risks. This is all about a money grab.

I appreciate your insight. Kind of bums me...I put a deposit down last week based upon the published expectation of the plant re-opening soon. I assumed employees wanted to return to work and the company wanted to resume production. Takes my opinion of the company down a few notches. My opinion of unions was already on the low side, this just validates it.

-Eric
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Eric,

I've worked in this environment for a long time, this is the automotive industry.

Remember that Honda and Toyota also closed production in non union facilities for similar reasons.

At first there were no plans of stopping production. Before the stay at home orders the entire industry was grappling with how to implement best practices for employee safety. We were inviting in CDC inspectors and the like to help. We were trying to buy thousands of masks, gloves, etc.

Once it became apparent we couldn't react fast enough to stop the spread if someone in the plant became sick, people got really afraid. The UAW asked the plants what they were going to do to protect the membership. The Big3 couldn't come up with answers that were acceptable to the UAW. Both parties went to the government for guidance and our Michigan State Government declared that Auto Workers were not essential.

Yes it was political, but ultimately It was the least negative option for everyone.

Just so you understand, the majority of us in the industry didn't want to this extreme measure.

I don't want anyone getting COVID19.

I also didn't want to lose $1000 a month of income.
 

·
Registered
2020 HellRaisin 1320
Joined
·
217 Posts
I assumed employees wanted to return to work and the company wanted to resume production. Takes my opinion of the company down a few notches. My opinion of unions was already on the low side, this just validates it.
I mean, a lot of people WANT to return to work, but that's not the same as being READY to go in to work and put themselves and their families at risk. And yes, unions are lots of politics, but they're also good in many ways.

I know a person who works at the Ram assembly plant in the Detroit area. He said he WANTS to go back to work, but he's also hesitant about it and not sure that he'd want to if they told him to come back next week. He's more concerned with staying safe and healthy, especially since there have been several cases within the plants already. He's especially concerned about the people that want to go back to work because they just don't care or think they're invincible. So it really is a matter of making sure conditions are safe enough to also override the morons out there.

Another friend of mine just had his (unrelated) copper wire plant shut down this week because of people being way too lax about everything and not heeding the warnings plant managers put in place.

So personally, yes, waiting even longer for a car I ordered over 2 months ago sucks, sucks bad, but people's health and safety is way more important than me than just having a car I'm buying for want and fun rather than need. I know I wouldn't want to go back to work in a factory right now if it were me.
 

·
Registered
On Order - 2020 Scat Pack Hellraisin Shaker
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
I mean, a lot of people WANT to return to work, but that's not the same as being READY to go in to work and put themselves and their families at risk....
That gets back to my earlier discourse about there is more risk simply going for groceries than there would be working. If the virus is that bad, why aren't grocery store workers overrun with illness? They deal with the public daily. They have all sorts of product coming in from all sorts of different distribution centers.


...So personally, yes, waiting even longer for a car I ordered over 2 months ago sucks, sucks bad,...
You got bit by bad timing. I got bit believing the announcements and assuming good intentions of all involved.


...Once it became apparent we couldn't react fast enough to stop the spread if someone in the plant became sick, people got really afraid. The UAW asked the plants what they were going to do to protect the membership...
That's where the rub is. A month later, now we do understand the threat. We do know how to protect employees. We do have the equipment & procedures available to do so. So turn the lights on and get back to work! I think labor & management are so accustomed to opposing each other that they can't play on the same team to defeat a shared threat. And both of them see dollar signs if they can manipulate the situation to make the government (which to be clear, is all of us) write them a check.

Moving on....

Muengineer, since you have some industry insight..... Okay, I placed the order last week. According to the dealer the first step is for the order to be accepted by the factory - confirm it is a viable vehicle configuration, etc. Later when assembly is started we get on to a VIN assigned and so forth. Obviously the assembly line is closed and no new cars are being produced. What about the office staff side of things? Are they still accepting orders and putting them in a pile? Or has the plug been pulled on everything?

Or to put it another way.... Should I expect any paperwork progress on the order prior to the plant re-opening?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Muengineer, since you have some industry insight..... Okay, I placed the order last week. According to the dealer the first step is for the order to be accepted by the factory - confirm it is a viable vehicle configuration, etc. Later when assembly is started we get on to a VIN assigned and so forth. Obviously the assembly line is closed and no new cars are being produced. What about the office staff side of things? Are they still accepting orders and putting them in a pile? Or has the plug been pulled on everything?

Or to put it another way.... Should I expect any paperwork progress on the order prior to the plant re-opening?
Eric,

The process for ordering is tricky. Its automated to a point and then manual to a point and then automated again.

The easiest way to describe it is this:

You walk into a dealer and want to order a car.

The dealer agrees and configures the car in the VO system.

The system won't let you order something they can't build because of incompatibility (that's programmed in)

Once your order is put in, the system generates a Priced Order Confirmation.

The next step is that the ordering system looks at allocation. If the allocation is open and your dealer has priority, it goes into the next step. If the allocation is closed or dealers with higher priority still are holding open spots, it holds the order and places it on the next allocation period.

Once the order is in the allocation list, it is processed and turned into a build order.

Then it is presented to the inventory management system at the plant.

That system checks inventory and looks at incoming inventory for parts and then compares them to what is already scheduled to build. This process is automated.

The next process is manual. The IT group at the assembly plant sorts the list for all cars that can be built and groups them into vehicle broadcast groups. These get sent to the assembly line computers for build.

The orders that are missing something go into a group where they are checked again against the inventory system at some interval and scheduled once the parts come in.

Short answer is the last steps are manual and not running while the plant is down.

Right now the link between the Auburn Hills Vehicle Order Assignment to the assembly plants is turned off.

Once the plants re-open and they turn that back on, all the orders will start flowing for the IT group to put into line.
 

·
Registered
2020 HellRaisin 1320
Joined
·
217 Posts
We do know how to protect employees. We do have the equipment & procedures available to do so.
Actually, we don't. Because of what I brought up earlier, we don't know how to protect employees from other employees who don't give a rats you know what about anything. Grocery store workers are in fact getting sick, and one of their biggest complaints that they've been vocal of is how the customers DON'T CARE. The customers aren't maintaining distancing, the customers are bringing in their entire families with kids to use the store as a playground, the customers aren't wearing masks...same with employees. A lot of them don't care. How do you keep all your employees safe when you have a group of them who don't care at all.

It's the same with driving. You can practice defensive driving all day long, but you can't stop a moron from running a red light and t-boning you out of nowhere. And there's a LOT of morons out there who don't take the situation serious enough, and all that's doing is prolonging all this crap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Congrats! I ordered my Hellraisin Scat Pack 1320 back on February 20. Never made it into production before the plants shut down. I'm guessing there was an issue getting the 1320 specific parts from suppliers. My order was accepted and I had a VIN within a couple days of ordering. Then I had several updates about waiting on parts. Then the plants shut down.

I've been mostly contacting Dodge directly through mopar.com for status updates. Especially since my sales guy no longer works at my dealer, so now I'm dealing directly with the sales manager. Last status I got from Dodge was "all parts required to start the build process has been received". For some reason they keep telling me they can't see the actual code status so for that I contact my dealer, and they said it shows to be in D1.

I'm hoping that all means it'll be at the front of the line once production starts back up.
This is odd to me, because I ordered my REWB on February 20th as well. And picked her up from the dealership April 15th. I was amazed at how quickly it was built, then shipped. Especially with the covid going on, and after the 2019 debacle with redeye deliveries. Calling the srt line directly got me the most information as to her status. The dealership (which was fantastic to work with) was basically worthless as far as status updates. I had my vin AND my window sticker long before they did. Once your window sticker generates, you'll have her soon. But once it leaves the plant for shipping, its difficult to know where it's at along the route. I've wondered if maybe I was lucky enough to get one of the last ones to come off the line before Brampton shut down.
 

·
Registered
2020 HellRaisin 1320
Joined
·
217 Posts
This is odd to me, because I ordered my REWB on February 20th as well. And picked her up from the dealership April 15th. I was amazed at how quickly it was built, then shipped. Especially with the covid going on, and after the 2019 debacle with redeye deliveries. Calling the srt line directly got me the most information as to her status. The dealership (which was fantastic to work with) was basically worthless as far as status updates. I had my vin AND my window sticker long before they did. Once your window sticker generates, you'll have her soon. But once it leaves the plant for shipping, its difficult to know where it's at along the route. I've wondered if maybe I was lucky enough to get one of the last ones to come off the line before Brampton shut down.
I've heard others ordered after me that got theirs too. But I'm fairly sure the delays with mine are related to the 1320 specific parts. The day I ordered it was the first day Dodge made the 1320 package available for 2020, so there's a fairly good chance I may have one of the first ones if not the first in 2020, other than the Hellraisin 2020 1320 at the LA Auto Show....speaking of which, maybe they can just give me that one??? Who do I need to call?? lol

Anyway, I had my VIN within a couple days, but everytime I checked the status they were waiting on parts. Meanwhile all the other Challenger models and packages had no issues getting built, which is why I think there was a supplier issue with the parts that are only available on the 1320.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,402 Posts
This is odd to me, because I ordered my REWB on February 20th as well. And picked her up from the dealership April 15th. I was amazed at how quickly it was built, then shipped. Especially with the covid going on, and after the 2019 debacle with redeye deliveries. Calling the srt line directly got me the most information as to her status. The dealership (which was fantastic to work with) was basically worthless as far as status updates. I had my vin AND my window sticker long before they did. Once your window sticker generates, you'll have her soon. But once it leaves the plant for shipping, its difficult to know where it's at along the route. I've wondered if maybe I was lucky enough to get one of the last ones to come off the line before Brampton shut down.
Yeah must have just made it. Brampton shut down on March 18. Check the MDH on your door sticker to see the exact build date.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
On Order - 2020 Scat Pack Hellraisin Shaker
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
....I had my vin AND my window sticker long before they did....
...Anyway, I had my VIN within a couple days, ...
How did you get your VINs? I was expecting the dealer to be the go-between on that initially, sounds like you found an out-of-band process to get it.

Thanks,
-Eric
 

·
Registered
2020 HellRaisin 1320
Joined
·
217 Posts
How did you get your VINs? I was expecting the dealer to be the go-between on that initially, sounds like you found an out-of-band process to get it.

Thanks,
-Eric
I got it from my sales guy. To track your order through Dodge I created an account on mopar.com and use the chat feature. But they need at least a VON (Vehicle Order Number). That usually comes first before the VIN. So a couple days after placing my order I texted my sales guy asking him if they got the VON and he responded that they already had the VIN too and sent me a pic of the updated order sheet that showed it.

Now with that info I just periodically go back into the chat on mopar.com and ask for a status update. They normally just ask that you verify your name, address, phone number and email and they'll tell you whatever the system shows
 
21 - 40 of 294 Posts
Top