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Discussion Starter #21
Any updates? Did you ever figure out your issues?
I still haven't figured it out yet so far the best i have run is 13.7 with the new cam (13.3 before the cam) The car runs great it even got like 27 mpg on hw trips it just doesnt pull like it used to?It doesnt chirp into 2nd gear like it did before the cam which to me means lost power in the high rpms??I am still working on getting headers for it but winter is here and im ready to put it away till spring i might make this a winter project(headers) then try it in the spring if it still feels slugish i will bring it in local and get a dyno tune but i still want to give Johan a shot at the tune i know he is good.:fight:
 

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Hope you can get this sorted but thought I'd mention that the first one to do this mod on the auto tranny R/T, even after taking the car from TX to VA to have it tuned gave up and sold the car, this mod seems to only work well on the 6Ms (the first to do this mod), which started as a low cost mod back when you could still get the 392s cam for around $60.:|
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Hope you can get this sorted but thought I'd mention that the first one to do this mod on the auto tranny R/T, even after taking the car from TX to VA to have it tuned gave up and sold the car, this mod seems to only work well on the 6Ms (the first to do this mod), which started as a low cost mod back when you could still get the 392s cam for around $60.:|
I know what your saying but there are plenty of autos make great power like this one here http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f18/another-cam-swap-success-story-267794/ making 410 to the wheels.I will get mine worked out right now im blaming it on stock ex manifolds and tune.Just sucks i might have to wait till spring?
 

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09 RT Challenger auto
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Every report that I have read involving this cam and a limiter say power loss. There is your issue.
Except in mine I guess. I didnt. I dont know why people would even use one with this cam. Not needed. The OP didnt use the cam phaser in his cam swap. Was no need to. I didnt need to either, I did for other reasons. Data./
END:


A tune cannot fix parts not in Harmony. Stall converter and headers may be needed to complete your build.

Are you using an AEM wideband for A/F and logging it with the tuner ? Or is Johan going for a target a/f ? (calculated guess)
On another note you mentioned about the timing maybe being off from chain slip during install.
Say if it was off just 1 tooth retarted, it will throw a code for fact. crank/cam not in phase code. I had one.
With snow on way you may not be able to do more till spring. :{
FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Thanks

Except in mine I guess. I didnt. I dont know why people would even use one with this cam. Not needed. The OP didnt use the cam phaser in his cam swap. Was no need to. I didnt need to either, I did for other reasons. Data./
END:


A tune cannot fix parts not in Harmony. Stall converter and headers may be needed to complete your build.

Are you using an AEM wideband for A/F and logging it with the tuner ? Or is Johan going for a target a/f ? (calculated guess)
On another note you mentioned about the timing maybe being off from chain slip during install.
Say if it was off just 1 tooth retarted, it will throw a code for fact. crank/cam not in phase code. I had one.
With snow on way you may not be able to do more till spring. :{
FlatTop
Hey thanks for all your help.I think your right about tq conv and headers they will be my winter mods.
Im not using a AEM to logg just sending Johan my logs from the track and from what he says everything looks good?
What i meant on timing is it feels like my old cars when the timming was retarded, its hard to explain but the engine is being held back??
Your right about winter car is in my garage now so i hope to do these mods over winter i will hit high 12s next summer!!!:werd:
 

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I know what your saying but there are plenty of autos make great power like this one here http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f18/another-cam-swap-success-story-267794/ making 410 to the wheels.I will get mine worked out right now im blaming it on stock ex manifolds and tune.Just sucks i might have to wait till spring?
he's also running long tubes and no Cats.. I'd say that's where A LOT of the power is coming from as well as the tune. :thumbsup:

I wonder what's up with your ride?? timing was double checked, marks all lined up etc.? That's the only thing that would stick out. Stock exhaust is not that bad.

What were all your 60 ft.s when you were running with the 392 cam?
 

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Discussion Starter #27
he's also running long tubes and no Cats.. I'd say that's where A LOT of the power is coming from as well as the tune. :thumbsup:

I wonder what's up with your ride?? timing was double checked, marks all lined up etc.? That's the only thing that would stick out. Stock exhaust is not that bad.

What were all your 60 ft.s when you were running with the 392 cam?
I considered LTs but the $$ and my car being lowered i would drag them all over?Doubled checked the timing marks and as other have said it would throw a code if gears were off or even worst hit the valves with these tight engines.I have heard these stock manifolds are terrible for a modded car maybe ok for stock but once you upgrade anything that is what holds the engine back i will find out in the spring.I did get the headers but the car is put away for now so i cant wait till spring!Im pretty sure my 60' times were around 2.40 after the cam i could barely spin the stock tires on launch even when i floored it.Before the cam i had a best of 1.90 on street tires and that was feathering the gas so i would spin the tires.
 

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Makes me wonder what's really going on with that cam. Looks like you just need a high stall torque converter. What year is your RT and what are your future plans? if only bolt on's, I highly suggest the Mopar Performance torque converter. It's not widely used, but boy does it work wonders for not a lot of money ($335). Flashes to 3000 rpm's all day long at launch and does NOT need a Mopar TCM to lock up 2nd gear+.

Do you feel any sort of gain at all with the new cam??

what are your shift points set at? maybe setting them at 6100-6200 might make a difference? I have mine set that high with a custom TCM and it works great.
 

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Makes me wonder what's really going on with that cam. Looks like you just need a high stall torque converter. What year is your RT and what are your future plans? if only bolt on's, I highly suggest the Mopar Performance torque converter. It's not widely used, but boy does it work wonders for not a lot of money ($335). Flashes to 3000 rpm's all day long at launch and does NOT need a Mopar TCM to lock up 2nd gear+.

Do you feel any sort of gain at all with the new cam??

what are your shift points set at? maybe setting them at 6100-6200 might make a difference? I have mine set that high with a custom TCM and it works great.
Do you have a part # or a link for the MoPar torque converter you referred to in your post?
Thanks, John
 

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I considered LTs but the $$ and my car being lowered i would drag them all over?Doubled checked the timing marks and as other have said it would throw a code if gears were off or even worst hit the valves with these tight engines.I have heard these stock manifolds are terrible for a modded car maybe ok for stock but once you upgrade anything that is what holds the engine back i will find out in the spring.I did get the headers but the car is put away for now so i cant wait till spring!Im pretty sure my 60' times were around 2.40 after the cam i could barely spin the stock tires on launch even when i floored it.Before the cam i had a best of 1.90 on street tires and that was feathering the gas so i would spin the tires.

Yea, there ya go. Thats a bad 60ft at 2.40s. Man if you drop the 60ft 3/4 a second up front you will drop a whole bunch out back. One on hundreth up front will get ya 1 tenth out back, so the 13:70 will go into 12s

On the TC side, If you want, I dont sell and get zero money. No shilling on my end. However, if you call Andre at Edge converters and tell him FlatTop/ Gene had you call him. He is a good guy and has excellent customer service and knows his sheeeet. He has called me back on a friday at 7pm in the past.
Then he will ask for details about the car and it will be built for your car and work excellent. It will be at the 3500 to 3800 stall, will kick ass.

IMO, Do the shorties, add a 3500 stall, and get real wrinkle wall slicks 10x28x17 and cobra wheels. No need to jack with DR, just go with what sticks like glue and dead hooks, everytime. Slicks.
Have Johan move the rev limiter to 6600 and bump the shifts to 6200 to 6400. Really. Add a mtcm to the mods.
You will then go fast and enjoy the cam.

FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Yea, there ya go. Thats a bad 60ft at 2.40s. Man if you drop the 60ft 3/4 a second up front you will drop a whole bunch out back. One on hundreth up front will get ya 1 tenth out back, so the 13:70 will go into 12s

On the TC side, If you want, I dont sell and get zero money. No shilling on my end. However, if you call Andre at Edge converters and tell him FlatTop/ Gene had you call him. He is a good guy and has excellent customer service and knows his sheeeet. He has called me back on a friday at 7pm in the past.
Then he will ask for details about the car and it will be built for your car and work excellent. It will be at the 3500 to 3800 stall, will kick ass.

IMO, Do the shorties, add a 3500 stall, and get real wrinkle wall slicks 10x28x17 and cobra wheels. No need to jack with DR, just go with what sticks like glue and dead hooks, every time. Slicks.
Have Johan move the rev limiter to 6600 and bump the shifts to 6200 to 6400. Really. Add a mtcm to the mods.
You will then go fast and enjoy the cam.

FlatTop
Thanks for the great advice that pretty much sounds like a great game plan, a few questions are- what will the mtcm gain me and i have the factory peg leg rear end do you think slicks will still help with the 1 wheel peel?I have a chance to get a rear end from a 6spd but it has the factory 3.91 gears would i have to change the ratio especially with that converter?Thanks man!
 

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Do you have a part # or a link for the MoPar torque converter you referred to in your post?
Thanks, John
Charger Mopar Performance Torque Converter - P5153726

I love mine but avoid it if you plan on supercharging with more than 6 psi as it's a stock Jeep SRT-8 torque converter and stock guts. It flashes higher because it's for the SRT-8 Jeep but behind a 5.7, it flashes great! I really like mine a lot and though it only dropped my 60 ft. to 1.9 from 2.0/2.3 it really cut my best time from 13.7 to 13.3 and worse times from 14.3 down to 13.5 dead on consistent.

If I could run a real Mopar TCM ( running a custom tuned TCM since Mopar TCM for '13's do not exist) I'd go for at least a true 3800 maybe even a 4000 stall since I have AWD. No complaints at all about my set up as it has a very strong 0-60, 0-80.

:thumbsup:
 

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MTCM will give your converter a nice lock up at lower rpm. If you use the stock tcm the converter will not lock up and really slip. Still will work right it dont lock up the clutches in the TC. So it slips in first and 2nd. With mtcm with light throttle presure it will lock up and not slip, untill you go wot and the signale tell the converter to unlock. Then it will stall.
Get the slicks, even helps a peg leg, not peg leg. Then get you LS rear. I really like the 307 grear and uding 1 2 3 in qt. You need the limited slip rear theough,
Back to slicks, they dont slip, period,,, why fool around with anything but them. ?
Cheers
FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter #34
OK guys getting this thread going again it was a long winter and i just got my JBA headers installed all i have to say is so far it feels GREAT i havent been able to do a full 1/4 mile run but i know i am moving in the right direction Johan is still working with me on the tune.Tomorrow i am hoping to get it to the track i do have new tires this year running 275/35/20s nitto invos and they seem to stick well so im hoping for some good runs!Wish me luck!I just hope i can get some low 13 sec runs!I will let you know later!
 

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OK guys getting this thread going again it was a long winter and i just got my JBA headers installed all i have to say is so far it feels GREAT i havent been able to do a full 1/4 mile run but i know i am moving in the right direction Johan is still working with me on the tune.Tomorrow i am hoping to get it to the track i do have new tires this year running 275/35/20s nitto invos and they seem to stick well so im hoping for some good runs!Wish me luck!I just hope i can get some low 13 sec runs!I will let you know later!
Congrats. Keep us posted on your results
 

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Looking forward to your 12 sec runs.

Remember the importance of a proper cool down before running down the track,heatsoak kills power.

Also don't run a full tank of gas,run less than half and make sure its the highest octane you can buy.
 

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I am a little confused.

OP puts a 392 cam in and members tell him the loss in performance he experienced is due to not having headers and or a higher stall TC???

The stock 392 uses shorties and as for the TC, is there a difference in the RT vs SRT TC?
 

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This is a well known bad idea as almost everyone loses power on this,I saw a dyno result somewhere on this forum where it actually made less horsepower.It is going to move your powerband up which unless you are interested only in top speed is useless on these cars.These big girls need help to get moving.Love my Challenger.
 

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I am a little confused.

OP puts a 392 cam in and members tell him the loss in performance he experienced is due to not having headers and or a higher stall TC???

The stock 392 uses shorties and as for the TC, is there a difference in the RT vs SRT TC?
Because of the different torque in both motors the actual stall speed while be different between the two. I suggested the TC thinking maybe he lost some torque and that is why the car won't spin the tires over anymore and maybe it would help getting back into the power band. The 5.7 seems to benefit the most from longtubes so since the 392 cam is alot bigger the longtubes would allow the cam to breathe better. That could have been why the cam wasn't working or not. A lot of this was speculation.
 
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