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Discussion Starter #1
High guys,

My plan is to go N/A again. My Vortech'ed SRT8 is great (~520rwhp) but I'm thinking of getting an all alloy 440 to save weight + getting rid of the Vortech due to many reasons (doing mostly round track racing. cooling as well as throttle response is not perfect with the Vortech).
Going that route I should loose +/- 80lbs on the engine as well as +/- 50lbs on the complete Vortech.

What numbers are known to be able to get out of a real hot 440cui?
650HP? 700HP? or even more?
As I'm already running 520rwhp it's not really worth the bucks to "only" loose 130lbs but stay at the +/- same rwhp range so I'd love to get into the range of 600rwhp and loose the weight + have a N/A engine again.
That would bring me the X-Mas and Birthday feeling together.

As we do have very good gas here in Germany (105 Octane with only 5% Methanol) at nearly every gas station I was also thinking about getting this 440 with a higher compression ratio that 11:1.

Second point on the wishlist is a engine which is able to rev up to let's say 6800/ 6900/7000 rpm.
Any ideas if that's possible? Or did ever somebody build such a Gen3 Hemi?

Thx a lot!
 

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Sounds like another cool project. Considering one (ujokin) 460ci pulled 635/650 and Hemituner's 449ci runs like a bat out of hell, I can definitely see a 440ci setup over 520whp. If you want something in the 600s, take a look at the 460ci one. Im sure you can search LXForums and find out some details. Or give Arrington or PWR a call.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Already talked to [email protected] but he was not throwing around with numbers and more on the conservative side with the statement of 600-630HP for an 449cui alloy Hemi.

I thought that I can expect more and hoped to find a way to get an engine which will rev up over 6250 as well as push out more HP due to the increased compression.
 

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Andy @ PWR has an aluminum 468 that would probably be the most and lightest you could get while staying NA.
 

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Those seem like awful big numbers you're looking for from an NA 440 based on what I've seen, Lukester, assuming you're talking rwhp / rwtq. I think Arrington is telling it like it is.

HemiSam
 

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With 105 oct gas id say forget that 11:1 and start thinkin about 12-13:1... :yesnod:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@HemiSam: The numbers I was talking about (630-650) are not rwhp but engine hp. rwhp would be awesome for a N/A :bigthumb:

Getting to 650HP I suspect to see +/- 595rwhp.
That would hurt a lot as this new thing has to hit the magical 600rwhp.


@All:
Anybody ever seen a high rev Hemi?
Aim A: get to 600rwhp
Aim B: find a engine which revs up to 7000rpm without beeing dead after 5000 miles.

Just a "comparison". As far as I know the Z06 Chevy LS7 does 7100rpm. How did they solve it
and why can't we solve it with the Hemis?
 

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My redline is 6800, Lukester. Beefing up the heads should get you most the way there. Not sure about spinning a 440 up to 7K, though. Just dunno...

HemiSam
 

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You can get close to 7000 easily. Just find the correct builder and a good set of valve springs. Im revving near 7000 right now on my "out of square" 5.7 392 with a ton of valve float on stock springs (soon to be changed out). I have faith you can do it with upgraded ones:)

And since it doesnt sound like there is a budget, you might want to look into one of them $3500 sheet metal intake manifolds to help with power in the higher RPMs.
 

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Hey my friend! I know you have talked with our Mikey about the engine options, and I wanted to let you know that we can help with something special, as we're partners with the only GRAND-AM race team that runs a Challenger. They have been developing the road race cars since '08 so lots of good information there including the engine information you are looking for. Email coming your way. :)

Lisa.
 

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I would think the rocker shafts would need upgrades/bracing, maybe an undersqaure setup, titanium connecting rods and other lightweight rotating assembly goodies to start..

i'm jsut brain storming here.. but those are the places i would start my research.
 

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Dam just saw this. Good luck with this project.
Your on the right path already it seems. I would talk with Josh at HHP they use BES engines and are very tuff. All the people your working with already are great also. Just trying to give you more options. I don't know if they have a Aluminum block or not. BES does build High High HP NA race engines. So I'm sure they can get you to were you want to be. Good luck

They have lot's of big cube Aluminum blocks. Check out there site and see if you find anything helpfull.
http://www.besracing.com/crate-engines.html
 

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Subscribed. Good going Lukster. Hope you find what you want. Keep us posted on the build bro.
FT
 

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A couple of things....

Already talked to [email protected] but he was not throwing around with numbers and more on the conservative side with the statement of 600-630HP for an 449cui alloy Hemi.

I thought that I can expect more and hoped to find a way to get an engine which will rev up over 6250 as well as push out more HP due to the increased compression.
Arrington can get you your numbers but he's not telling you that because with the NA format you are looking at a pure race motor and it's not going to live long on the street. No problem for 1,000 to 5,000 miles but are you going to be happy spending $15+K on a motor that goes boom in a year?
And yes you can get the Hemi to run to 7,000 rpm but you are looking at a full on after-market valve train (rocker gear) and I think T&D's is close to $3,500 NOT including springs, pushrods, etc. And once you have that you better spend the money on Compstar or Manely rods with the aftermarket stroker crank lightened along with the custom pistons. Then full on C&C porting of the heads and intake. That $15+K comes up quick for a motor that would be great for a Nascar or Comp Eliminator engine but not too good for something you want to live for more than a year.
And after you spend all that money, better spring for new axles, drive-shaft and transmission because Mr. Norms started breaking all that stuff when they pushed their Kenne Bell motors over 600 HP.
Just my two cents....
 

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This is race motor territory. I've seen 360 cube SBCs make these numbers, but with methanol and mechanical FI. I have a 472 cube pontiac making similar numbers with a 6800 rpm redline. I don't see at all why a 440 couldn't do it. hell my poncho don't even have EFI. as stated earlier you may need a custom intake manifold, and maybe look into a FAST efi setup as i'm not sure just how tunable the stock EFI is for a radical engine. You'll need the most lightweight rotating assembly parts you can afford.

It won't idle well. you'll need to check/replace valve springs every few months or every month. it will cost a lot more than you think , 15k would be cheap for this engine, too cheap. I'd say closer to 30k, when all is said and done. the machine work will need to be basically perfect, as will cam selection and valvetrain geometry... Have you talked to PWR? seems like they could set you up with something here.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is race motor territory. I've seen 360 cube SBCs make these numbers, but with methanol and mechanical FI. I have a 472 cube pontiac making similar numbers with a 6800 rpm redline. I don't see at all why a 440 couldn't do it. hell my poncho don't even have EFI. as stated earlier you may need a custom intake manifold, and maybe look into a FAST efi setup as i'm not sure just how tunable the stock EFI is for a radical engine. You'll need the most lightweight rotating assembly parts you can afford.

It won't idle well. you'll need to check/replace valve springs every few months or every month. it will cost a lot more than you think , 15k would be cheap for this engine, too cheap. I'd say closer to 30k, when all is said and done. the machine work will need to be basically perfect, as will cam selection and valvetrain geometry... Have you talked to PWR? seems like they could set you up with something here.
@CaptainCavement: Thx for your input and knowledge.
I tried to talk to PWR but Andy and Brad didn't answer my emails over the last weeks....... :(
 
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