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Discussion Starter #1
I see tons of posts about how other manufacturers are producing cars with more power than our beloved SRT8's. There are 1000's of Mopar Maniacs here and elsewhere who are perpetually agonizing over the fact that Ford and GM are making cars with more power... and we, as Mopar people, are left to either take a backseat or mod. A new "top of the line" SRT with a 6.4 is roughly equal in performance to a Mustang GT... different cars, I know... but the fact remains...

We have to admit, Dodge is NOT in the horsepower war currently being waged. Ford OWNS this war, GM is struggling to maintain 2nd place, and Dodge is sitting the bench, eating hotdogs.

Rationale for above:

1. Ford: GT500 @ 500 HP
2. Dodge: 6.1 @ 425 HP
3. GM: 6.2 @ 426 HP
4. GM: ZL1 @ 550+ HP
5. Dodge: 6.4 @ 470 HP (advertised - and advertised is key here)

*then before GM even releases/produces the ZL1, Ford states the new GT500 will put out 600+ HP... the Boss 302 has 440 HP and is lighter than the SRT... and the supposed Z28 will likely match or surpass the Boss... and we know the 5.0 engine in base GT form is underrated as well...

We know the 6.4 puts out AROUND 500 HP from dyno testing... but even that, by today's standards is JUST the entry fee into this HP War. AND Dodge doesn't advertise 500 HP! If they were in it to win it, Dodge would advertise the facts.

Of course, SRT's offer more than just thrills. They're better looking (opinion) and they offer more room, amenities, etc. Grand touring cars in a sense, with a musclular persona.

But if Dodge were serious... they'd not only need to produce a car with 550+ horsepower (to compete with a GT500), but they'd need to bump that up a bit because the SRT's weigh quite a bit more than the "competition".

While other manufacturers (especially Ford) are making LEAPS and BOUNDS in the HP and engineering department, Dodge seems content to add a few ponies and flatten a curve; but the GT 500 has a nice flat curve also, but with at least 50 more HP (100 more for the next model year) and less weight.

Most of us are repeat customers of Dodge and it seems Dodge listens, to a degree, on what we want from them... which, to put it bluntly, is to win the HP War.

Forget all this forced induction excuses... the final numbers are what matters. Lets face it.

Dodge has $$$ issues and who knows what other problems they have... but if Ford and Government Motors can do it, why not "us"?!?!

Dodge spent the $$$ to certify and produce the 6.4... why didn't they pull out the stops and up the displacement or go forced induction?! Either way, they'd still have to spend the $$$ on a new engine. And they'd pass the cost onto the customer anyway (who would pay the extra $$$ for a much improved product). It seems to me as if Dodge keeps putting bandages on a wound instead of truly healing the problem.

The solution is forced induction and/or the 426... they have the ability but have chosen not to utilize it. Emissions should be a non-issue as Ford and GM are managing...

I find it ironic we "complain" about 470 HP being too little... but its a reflection of the market and the competition...

How do we, as Mopar fans, get Dodge to LISTEN once and for all?
 

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I feel where you are coming from, but would you or anybody else really pay the extra money for more hp or would everybody complain about the price. It is sad when Dodge is finally putting out a good product they are getting put down for it. I agree they should produce something with more punch to it, but I'm just happy Dodge is still around.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I feel where you are coming from, but would you or anybody else really pay the extra money for more hp or would everybody complain about the price. It is sad when Dodge is finally putting out a good product they are getting put down for it. I agree they should produce something with more punch to it, but I'm just happy Dodge is still around.
Heck, look how much money "we" spend on mods as it is to get more power...

Don't get me wrong, I still want an IE, but this trend is just frustrating!
 

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I hear what you are saying........but blower equals "Win Dodge!!"
 

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Their will always be something faster that is the way it is. The fun is building a monster to beat all of the new stuff :) my engine will be pulled by the end of the summer to get forged the internals.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Their will always be something faster that is the way it is. The fun is building a monster to beat all of the new stuff :) my engine will be pulled by the end of the summer to get forged the internals.
This is what I'm talking about... you'll drop a few grand on this mod... to build the engine up for a blower or whatever... Dodge, with its buying and production capacity could forge their engines for less... yet, they don't.

If "we" spend the $$$ on aftermarket parts that could void the warranty, why wouldn't we pay for said parts WITH a warranty from Dodge?!?!
 

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it's threads like this that led me to installing a supercharger!:armed: lol.
That way I dont have to upgrade to the IE or worry about mustangs and camaros. This blower should keep me happy for a year or so, because you know something with 600hp is around the corner.:(
 

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how come Chevy can make a Camaro for $10k less? Dodge charges a premium already for these cars....i dont want to pay more...they must be making a hell of a profit on them.

they charge $20k over an SE.....do you think they are actually giving you $20k more in product?....does the 392 cost $10k more to make? or is it more like $2k more

i think we already pay enough of a premium price.....Ford can get almost the same power out of a 5.0 that we get from a 6.4....why?
 

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how come Chevy can make a Camaro for $10k less? Dodge charges a premium already for these cars....i dont want to pay more...they must be making a hell of a profit on them.

they charge $20k over an SE.....do you think they are actually giving you $20k more in product?....does the 392 cost $10k more to make? or is it more like $2k more

i think we already pay enough of a premium price.....Ford can get almost the same power out of a 5.0 that we get from a 6.4....why?
I have to agree with huggytree on all this.

But it dont look like Dodge is listening to us, so I figured I would just mod myself to get ahead of msutang and camaro and not fall to behind from the gt500. but now what happens when a 5.0 puts a blower on! oh $hit I am dead meat. lol
you can get a gt 5.0 and put a blower on it and you will be freakin quick! and still be under the price of a 6.4 chally! thats what gets me.

but it is still another mustang in the end:sleep:
 

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how come Chevy can make a Camaro for $10k less? Dodge charges a premium already for these cars....i dont want to pay more...they must be making a hell of a profit on them.

they charge $20k over an SE.....do you think they are actually giving you $20k more in product?....does the 392 cost $10k more to make? or is it more like $2k more

i think we already pay enough of a premium price.....Ford can get almost the same power out of a 5.0 that we get from a 6.4....why?
I don't have anything but guestimates, but here they are.
The Pentastar V6 is going to cost a *lot* less than the 5.7 or 6.4 simply because of much greater economies of scale--The Pentastar will go into nearly a dozen models, the 5.7 half a dozen, and the 6.4 into just a few. And to compound it, it's not just fewer models, but fewer units sold of those fewer models.

The Pentastar V6 has a lot fewer parts as well, so on top of economies of scale, it just plain costs less than the outgoing V6s, and most likely has less metal in the block than the V8s--so there's a savings in shear resources consumed per unit.

But, with that said, I do agree and I highly doubt that a 392 incurs a $20k cost increase to build over an SE. I've little doubt they have an increased margin in the pricier trim levels.

Wasn't the 2008 SRT8 base price $38k? And now in 2010 and 2011 it's up to $43k...

What was the 2009 SE base price compared to 2010 and 2011?
 

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how come Chevy can make a Camaro for $10k less? Dodge charges a premium already for these cars....i dont want to pay more...they must be making a hell of a profit on them.

they charge $20k over an SE.....do you think they are actually giving you $20k more in product?....does the 392 cost $10k more to make? or is it more like $2k more

i think we already pay enough of a premium price.....Ford can get almost the same power out of a 5.0 that we get from a 6.4....why?
Compare the materials used to build each side by side, the Camaro interior is cheap plastic no nav just gay star. I like the mustang but it's to damn small, the products used to build our cars are much better.
 

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I think these are all valid points. Definitely. I think that Dodge SHOULD offer that package as option and those that would pay it would, and I for one would pay it. The Shelby owners do. So we pretty much either hire Henessey or the SMS option and i think we should be offered more. Now i will say that damn if all the Mustang and Camaro options or packages arent confusing.
 

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The current hp wars will probably end up killing the breed like it did the last time around. Bunch of idiots racing on the street and not having the driving skills to use 1/2 of the hp or handling the vehicles already have will ruin it for everybody. For most people, the money would be better spent on performance driving training than more hp.

For those of you who are pro drivers already, ignore my rant but I was around the last time the muscle cars were killed off. :scratchhead:
 

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The current hp wars will probably end up killing the breed like it did the last time around. Bunch of idiots racing on the street and not having the driving skills to use 1/2 of the hp or handling the vehicles already have will ruin it for everybody. For most people, the money would be better spent on performance driving training than more hp.

For those of you who are pro drivers already, ignore my rant but I was around the last time the muscle cars were killed off. :scratchhead:
Honestly other than the fact that its just plain fun as hell, i think thats why there doing more of the programs like the SRT Track experience. I think I read that somewhere too.
 

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The current hp wars will probably end up killing the breed like it did the last time around. Bunch of idiots racing on the street and not having the driving skills to use 1/2 of the hp or handling the vehicles already have will ruin it for everybody. For most people, the money would be better spent on performance driving training than more hp.

For those of you who are pro drivers already, ignore my rant but I was around the last time the muscle cars were killed off. :scratchhead:
Believe me more slow 4.6 2 valve Mustangs street race than any high-end muscle car. The high-end muscle cars have gotten so expensive that the vast majority of people buying them are older more mature drivers.

Besides insurance rates, emissions, and gasoline prices are what killed them the first time around.
 

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9 Second Challenger

First the 500 Mustang is not any faster than a 392. 12.20's are the best times I've seen on both cars. I haven't seen any horsepower numbers on a production Camaro close to either the Mustang 500 or the Challenger. A ZL1 Camaro is just speculation. Now if you like what Yenko did with the Camaro in years past or what Mr. Norm did with many Mopars than put your eyes on the attached link. The fastest car is always the one that has the most dollars put in it. Somebody will always be faster and if you happen to be the fastest you had better relish that day because you are now just a target to beat, and you will be beat. For the best bang for you buck ($26K), buy a new 2010 5.7 Challenger and put forged goodies in it with a blower and go kick some A.

9 Second Challenger
Mr. Norm's Garage | 2011 Mr. Norm's GSS HP2 Challenger
 

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Mr Norms FTMFW!!!!!
 

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Power of the 392 is more than adequate for me.
Enough to twist the car sideways

Not many opportunities to use the power it has let
alone more. (Maybe it's a NY traffic thing)

I'd be more stoked with a convertible &/or a Cuda version
with a top line interior

Dodge can drop the V-10 into these cars anytime it wants
& blow away the comp with a N/A 512 cube motor

The looks already kill the stang & camaro & that's with all
cars standing still :thumbsup:
 

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Every week there is a thread like this. I am tired of addressing them. If you have to ask or you have to be convinced to buy a Challenger . . . . go buy the 5.0 - hands down the best car out there in every sense of the word.
 

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how come Chevy can make a Camaro for $10k less? Dodge charges a premium already for these cars....i dont want to pay more...they must be making a hell of a profit on them.

they charge $20k over an SE.....do you think they are actually giving you $20k more in product?....does the 392 cost $10k more to make? or is it more like $2k more

i think we already pay enough of a premium price.....Ford can get almost the same power out of a 5.0 that we get from a 6.4....why?
Close the door on a Mustang or Camaro and you'll know why a Challenger costs more!
 
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