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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
about 6 mounthes ago i was getting some knock, and couldnt figure it out i had a catch can on the engine at the time ), so i looked in at my piston tops with a borescope and saw major carbon built up on them. i came up with an ingenious idea how to clean them through the plug hole. (multiple sea foams did very little) what i did was i used mopar combustion chamber cleaner let it soak then i took 4 or 5 strands of weed wacker plastic trimer line , i taped one end and secured it in my drill. i did one at a time put pisto down to bottom of cylinder and went in the plug hole and let it rip fwd-revs over and over it ajitated the top of piston and gently scraped away all the carbon right off. i then washed down the cylinder with carb cleaner and let it all settel down .i then sucked it all out with a shop vac and small vacume line. well i did this to all the pistons cleaned them spotless i didnt want to do this again so i installed another catch can YES 2 in series i figured 2 would certainl take care of it !
well im now doing a tear down to do a cam and when i pulled off the heads WTF ! oil is still ending up in there causing carbon.! take a look at the pics .the 1st is how they looked 6 monthes age ( i just cleaned them again doing the cam.) the 2nd is what they looked like before i cleaned them. definalty come through the intake , (valve seales are new guides are good) its still getting past 2 catch cans my intake has an oily residew inside it again . take a look at the head you can see the oil trails coming right in from the intake valve. any help ideas or suggestions on how to eliminate this would be great ! thanks for reading.
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. any help ideas or suggestions on how to eliminate this would be great ! thanks for reading.
Coalescing filters are helpful but not very effective. I worked for a turbo compressor manufacturer, one of our lines emitted a larger than usual cloud of vapors from the oil tank vent. We tried a variety of designs then partnered with the top coalescing filter manufacturers and never found a good filtering solution.

Some time after I had installed a catch can on my Scat Pack I removed the intake manifold to port it. I wasn't surprised to see significant oil in the intake manifold, head ports and puddles on a few valves. For sure the catch can is reducing the amount of oil reaching the intake system but by no means eliminating it.

If one wants to eliminate it they would need to devise a vacuum source then vent to atmosphere (not a good option) or to an enclosure that would probably require a vent and a coalescing filter. Not a lot of good solutions available.
 

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Ingenious idea to clean the pistons! Several questions come to mind: What oil are you using? Does it burn oil? How many miles on the Motor? Did u break the car in? If so...how? With a cam swap I assume you are a racer. How many runs on the Motor if so?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ingenious idea to clean the pistons! Several questions come to mind: What oil are you using? Does it burn oil? How many miles on the Motor? Did u break the car in? If so...how? With a cam swap I assume you are a racer. How many runs on the Motor if so?
thanks yes it was very effective way they were spotless when finished . i only use castrol 0W40 full synthetic oil, and change evry 6k ,filter is changed every 3k my engine loves this stuff oil pressure is around 40-45 psi at idle with coolant temp around 190 deg, on a hot day .it goes up to around 50-55 when its revved up . on first start its around 55 psi. engine is tight with 92k on it . i had the car for 6 years got it with 23k same fuel and oil since i bought it. im not a racer just do alot of data logging and tweaking . she runs strong my 0-60 is around 4.4 sec. putting in a 6.4 cam due to a intermittent collapsed lifter issue did all rollers on lifters were fine as well as the cam looked brand new .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Coalescing filters are helpful but not very effective. I worked for a turbo compressor manufacturer, one of our lines emitted a larger than usual cloud of vapors from the oil tank vent. We tried a variety of designs then partnered with the top coalescing filter manufacturers and never found a good filtering solution.

Some time after I had installed a catch can on my Scat Pack I removed the intake manifold to port it. I wasn't surprised to see significant oil in the intake manifold, head ports and puddles on a few valves. For sure the catch can is reducing the amount of oil reaching the intake system but by no means eliminating it.

If one wants to eliminate it they would need to devise a vacuum source then vent to atmosphere (not a good option) or to an enclosure that would probably require a vent and a coalescing filter. Not a lot of good solutions available.
wow good stuff , im going to invent something that will reduce if more a light weight box filled with stainless steel wool. lol.
 

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Who's fuel are you using? I like to run the Shell premium. Supposed to have some magic cleaning agents :cool:
I would like to know that as well. Good conversation though, also, interesting cleaning technique.
 

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i only run mobil 93 oct , its not the fuel its oil .my intake was cleaned out and dried ,now theres an oily film again .
I understand that it is probably oil, but supposedly top tier fuel should have detergents to clear it out of the combustion chamber. Is there any chance your car is getting overfilled with oil? That could significantly increase oil vapors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I understand that it is probably oil, but supposedly top tier fuel should have detergents to clear it out of the combustion chamber. Is there any chance your car is getting overfilled with oil? That could significantly increase oil vapors.
isnt mobil 93 top tier ? i would gladly switch if theres a proven better pump fuel out there. oil level is always no higher then full mark. my car is a 6spd i used to down shift alot causing high vac but i since stoped and it had no effect .
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
i starting to wonder if this could also be the problem . there is a large tube that is on the opposite
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side of the intake manafold in connects to the nipple and goes on the air intake tube or air filter box . most aftermarket CAI systems have a nipple on them to attach this . however i did not go that route when i built my CAI system .i did not connect it i just put a small breather filter on it. i wonder if it does much more if you think about it wen you rev the engine if this was connected to the air box it would cause high vacuum on that side and and possible help out the pcv system . going to look into this. this could be the issue .
 

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Oh good Lord the discoloration is not from oil getting through the catch cans. It is a natural by product of combustion and how the car is driven.

A sign oil is making it past the catch can or cans is the presence of oil on the intake walls opposite where the hose from the cans connects to the intake manifold.

I've seen the head off of one engine, a Boxster engine it so happens, and the combustion chambers were remarkably clean. I asked the tech if he had cleaned them and he said no that is the they were. He said the driver (a woman) used the car for a mostly highway miles commute and that usage accounted for the clean combustion chambers.

In another case I had a chance to view the innards of a 996 engine -- at a different dealer -- and the pistons were quite dark with carbon. I asked the tech about this and the tech said it was typical of an SF car. 5 miles to work in the AM, a mile drive at lunch, then 5 miles home in the evening. Rarely do these cars get used any time at freeway speeds. The result is a good coating of dark carbon over quite a bit of the piston top, even down the side of the piston, and the combustion chamber.

You are worried about oil in the engine, being burned by the engine? Might mention here gasoline has some oil added to it, nearly an ounce per gallon of gas. (The oil is to protect ferrous surfaces from corrosion the gasoline can come in contact with.) In say 5K miles at 20mpg average that's 250 gallons of gasoline. Assuming just one half ounce of oil per gallon of gasoline that's 125 ounces of oil nearly a gallon of oil. No way your going to find anywhere near that amount of oil passing from the crankcase into the engine even with no catch can installed.

You are lucky with your mad cleaning you didn't cause a piston/ring to score the cylinder by rinsing away the oil film with the cleaner you used.

If you want to remove any engine deposits the best way is use Chevron Supreme with Techron. A tank or two of this can work a minor miracle.

If gasoline with Techron is not available where you are get a bottle or two from the auto parts store shelf and mix it with whatever gasoline you use as per directions on the bottle of Techron.

Then just drive the car as you normally do.

(BTW, while Shell V-Power is a pretty decent gasoline and some techs have told me it lets the engine produce a bit more power, it doesn't not have nearly the detergent benefit Chevron Supreme does.)

The usual advice is to perform the treatment two times. Then change the oil/filter as Techron can increase oil contamination.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i agree with some .this is not a fuel issue in any way this is a result of engine oil vapor entering the charge air. the inside of the plenum is coated with engine oil film. its all coming through the pcv system. now with that being said the question is how much is normal , my intake is coated within a few hundred miles right after cleaning it out. i dont drive this hard and haven't do to a suspected lifter issue thus the reason im doing a tear down. as for my cleaning metod it was a com pleat success .my piston tops looked brand new including the cross hatch on the cylinders. plastic dose not score and the cleaner i used was mopar. im no kid over 35 years in the industry as well as being a jet engine tech in the military for 10 years and have seen it all .so please keep that in mind. thanks for some but not all of your input you come off as combative and argumentative in your last reply .
 

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thanks yes it was very effective way they were spotless when finished . i only use castrol 0W40 full synthetic oil, and change evry 6k ,filter is changed every 3k my engine loves this stuff oil pressure is around 40-45 psi at idle with coolant temp around 190 deg, on a hot day .it goes up to around 50-55 when its revved up . on first start its around 55 psi. engine is tight with 92k on it . i had the car for 6 years got it with 23k same fuel and oil since i bought it. im not a racer just do alot of data logging and tweaking . she runs strong my 0-60 is around 4.4 sec. putting in a 6.4 cam due to a intermittent collapsed lifter issue did all rollers on lifters were fine as well as the cam looked brand new .
Thanks for the info. The engine sounds like it is in good shape. Your carbon buildup is because of the oil that you are using. Shell developed a motor oil just for the 392 engine. I spoke directly with a Shell Petroleum Engineer that was on the Shell Team that worked with SRT to develop this oil. The Engineer stated that every single oil out there was too dirty, and caused a build up on the pistons. They finally came up with a GTL (Gas To Liquid) oil that was super clean and eliminated the carbon problem. The base oil comes from Natrual Gas....rather than crude. No petroleum based oil (dyno or synthetic) can compete with the cleanliness from a GTL oil. The engineer informed me that using ANY other oil than Pennzoil Ultra Platinum VOIDS the Warranty. (Shell makes Pennzoil) The Engineer stated that the lubricity and cleanliness simply cannot be matched by another oil. This oil is only made in one refinery in Qatar.

Here is a good overview.... https://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/03/20140308-shell.html

If I were you....I would go back to one catch can and convert to the correct oil for this Motor. It will cure the carbon problem. It may cure or lessen the blow-by you are experiencing. They say not running in MDS mode keeps the lifters from damage. This makes sense because in MDS mode....the lifters lose oil pressure and this creates slack in the lifter so the valves will not open. This allows the roller to beat against the cam....causing failure. I always run mine in Sport mode.

You did not mention if it used oil....but it will change with the right oil. I have my breather tube set up the same as yours with no issues.

Try these changes and give us an update and let us know.....Gene :)
 

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i agree with some .this is not a fuel issue in any way this is a result of engine oil vapor entering the charge air. the inside of the plenum is coated with engine oil film. its all coming through the pcv system. now with that being said the question is how much is normal , my intake is coated within a few hundred miles right after cleaning it out. i dont drive this hard and haven't do to a suspected lifter issue thus the reason im doing a tear down. as for my cleaning metod it was a com pleat success .my piston tops looked brand new including the cross hatch on the cylinders. plastic dose not score and the cleaner i used was mopar. im no kid over 35 years in the industry as well as being a jet engine tech in the military for 10 years and have seen it all .so please keep that in mind. thanks for some but not all of your input you come off as combative and argumentative in your last reply .
Thank you for your Service brother! I am also a retired Vet. I served in both the USMC and the USAF and was also a Jet Engine Mechanic in the Force. ( F-15 and F-16 Pratt and Whitney F-100.)

The 392 is a separate beast from any other motor with it's peculiarities. Mack truck or Porsche experience don't necessarily apply to the 392.
 
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With only a couple thousand miles on my Scat Pack I noticed if the car was parked with the back at a lower elevation than the front when it was started there would occasionally be some blue smoke. I installed a catch can, have never seen smoke since. A couple thousand miles later the intake was removed for porting. I'm posting a picture of the intake port of the head and one of the intake manifold. Notice lots of oil. Based on everything I have read and seen this is normal.
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...The engineer informed me that using ANY other oil than Pennzoil Ultra Platinum VOIDS the Warranty...
The Owners Manual states it is recommended, not required.

For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer
only recommends full synthetic engine oils.
The manufacturer recommends the use of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40 or equivalent Mopar engine oil
meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-12633 for use in all operating temperatures.

All it states as required is "SAE 0W-40, Synthetic API Certified"
 
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