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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How much is common to expect off MSRP typically from your finding/experience.

I like to calculate taking in the below generally as savings to at least shoot for. Am I off base somewhere or different ideas?

(1.) Manufacturer Rebates: whatever is currently going on
(2.) 3% dealer manufacture holdback to dealer on MSRP
(3.) Invoice Cost vs MSRP (invoice costs can be found online typically, may have some smoke and mirrors in them even)
(4.) Some dealer profit/fluff always baked in somewhere (prep and handling, etc).
 

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2020 Dodge Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack
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How much is common to expect off MSRP typically from your finding/experience.

I like to calculate taking in the below generally as savings to at least shoot for. Am I off base somewhere or different ideas?

(1.) Manufacturer Rebates: whatever is currently going on
(2.) 3% dealer manufacture holdback to dealer on MSRP
(3.) Invoice Cost vs MSRP (invoice costs can be found online typically, may have some smoke and mirrors in them even)
(4.) Some dealer profit/fluff always baked in somewhere (prep and handling, etc).
Back in Dec. 2017 I made an offer to buy a new Challenger R/T Scat Pack for the base price of $38995 + $1095 destination charge. List was around $46K which covered the options of which $3K was the A8 alone. But I got the car for $40090 not including tax, registration, etc.

Felt pretty good about my purchase, but others at the time reported doing better. There's always a better deal which is why after I buy I avoid continuing to price shop/compare. One can't undo the deal he has made.

It is unlikely you can learn the dealer's true cost of the car. The prices dealers pay for their cars is a closely held secret. Salesmen certainly don't know. The GM, sales manager, finance guy know.

You can make an estimate but you never know... Years ago I did so when shopping a Boxster. Sat down and made my offer to the salesman. Before he could even reply I heard a voice from the other side of a cubical partition that said something like "That's $500 less than the car cost me." It was the sales manager. I bumped my offer by $500, which was not accepted. (But it shows you I took for granted what he said as gospel.) Then after some time I bumped my offer by $250 more which was of course also rejected. I left and went to a restaurant to have a bite to eat and think about why my offer was not accepted -- in spite of the rejections I felt my info regarding pricing was not that far wrong -- and then I remembered flooring cost. So I returned to the dealer and bumped my offer by the flooring cost the dealer had in the car -- a month or two or a couple of hundred dollars -- and this offer was accepted. The result was I bought the car at nearly $5000 under list price.

Like I did for my Scat Pack purchase you can offer to buy the car for base price + destination. I don't try to sort out all the various incentives. I figure the dealer can play with the numbers/discounts/incentives to get the car's price down to where I end up buying the car. Or he can't and in this case of course I walk. (But I have been known to come back an hour (Boxster) or even 2 weeks later (VW Golf) and make a slightly higher offer which was accepted. I waited 2 weeks to go back and buy a VW Golf for just a bit over what I had last offered for the car.)

But of course wait for others to respond. I'm sure some will have managed a better deal or have better advice.

There's always a better deal but I strive for one that I feel is the best I can do given my info, and other factors.

But there's always a better negotiator than me or someone who has more/better info than me and, well, that's why there's always a better deal...
 

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How much is common to expect off MSRP typically from your finding/experience.
Do you have a job? Let me apply your thinking to your boss...
1. It costs him $15 a day to commute
2. He spends $6 on lunch
3. $2 a day for laundry and cleaning his work clothes
That's $23. I'll offer $25 a day salary, that seems fair!
My point is...the dealer has to pay salaries, rent, utilities. The salesman deserves a commission. Everybody's gotta make a living! The best deal is when everyone is satisfied, not only the buyer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think salespeople and dealerships actually have very hard jobs. I am respectful and courteous in my dealings with them. I also know they will not make a deal that looses them money and I realize they have to make a profit.

With that being said they will also make as much profit as possible with much indifference "caveat emptor" if you allow them.
 

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My friend is the general manager at the dealership, he said the property taxes alone on the showroom and lot, not including the service department are $45,000 a year. They need to and are entitled to make a profit on that investment. It cost about seven million dollars to buy and open a franchise. Make a deal you’re happy with and forget all those who claim they did better. Until you see their documentation don’t take it as the gospel.
 
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New here - but not to cars and not to the car business. Actually joined here because of the current rebates and after a test drive in a '19 Scat Pack 6 speed - I'm actively looking. This is what my local dealership (bought from them before) just offered me:

'19 Scat Pack / 6M / only option is Navigation (I didn't care about NAV - but I wanted a Destroyer Gray 6 speed Scat pack and this was the closest one he could find for dealer transfer)

MSRP $42535
Dodge Rebate -$4850
USAA Discount -$1000
____
$36685 + TTL

They offered it at $35484 + TTL

I've seen lower prices online - but they were BS prices (that include all possible discounts, even thought most wouldn't apply).
 

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Bought 2019 Scat Pack Shaker. Sticker was 49,600. I got a little over 12K off. Should be able to get at least 10K off right now.
 

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The car buying experience is SO much better for the buyer when he isn't concerned about what the dealer makes.

If these folks knew what companies made for every day items, they would crap themselves and become survivalists. Lol
 

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I think salespeople and dealerships actually have very hard jobs. I am respectful and courteous in my dealings with them. I also know they will not make a deal that looses them money and I realize they have to make a profit.

With that being said they will also make as much profit as possible with much indifference "caveat emptor" if you allow them.
Just because I negotiate car purchases with a dealer doesn't mean I'm disrepectful or rude. I'm respectful and courteous in dealing with car salesmen and dealers in general. I'm not there to be an ******* I'm there to buy a car, which involves spending a lot of money, and I don't want any real distractions.

My rule is everything a car salesman tells you is intended to get you to buy the car ASAP and to pay as much for the car as possible. If one offered "sticker" likely the offer would be refused by some manner/way and trying for even more.

(Looking at VWs one day and walked onto the showroom floor. The place was dead. After a few minutes of feeling like I was the invisible man a couple showed up and after a while someone finally walked over to the couple. I hear the couple ask about any discounts. The salesman said something like "oh no, we have people waiting in line to buy cars." It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. The place was like a morgue. Also, I had just come off the lot and I had taken some kind of inventory and I knew the dealer had a large number of cars for sale. While I didn't buy a car there I ended up buying what I wanted at a nearby dealer and for under sticker.)

Car dealers sell cars day in and day out. Not my job to worry about the profit margin of the dealer, its financial health. I don't worry about them going out of business if I happen make a good deal.

I just try to make a deal based on what my research indicates I can buy the car for. If the dealer doesn't want the deal then it refuses the offer. I of course have some head room to up my offer but I still have a hard price -- usually -- that I will not go over so if the dealer refuses my subsequent offer, last offer, I walk.

There is always another car.
 

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Just because I negotiate car purchases with a dealer doesn't mean I'm disrepectful or rude. I'm respectful and courteous in dealing with car salesmen and dealers in general. I'm not there to be an *** I'm there to buy a car, which involves spending a lot of money, and I don't want any real distractions.

My rule is everything a car salesman tells you is intended to get you to buy the car ASAP and to pay as much for the car as possible. If one offered "sticker" likely the offer would be refused by some manner/way and trying for even more.

(Looking at VWs one day and walked onto the showroom floor. The place was dead. After a few minutes of feeling like I was the invisible man a couple showed up and after a while someone finally walked over to the couple. I hear the couple ask about any discounts. The salesman said something like "oh no, we have people waiting in line to buy cars." It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. The place was like a morgue. Also, I had just come off the lot and I had taken some kind of inventory and I knew the dealer had a large number of cars for sale. While I didn't buy a car there I ended up buying what I wanted at a nearby dealer and for under sticker.)

Car dealers sell cars day in and day out. Not my job to worry about the profit margin of the dealer, its financial health. I don't worry about them going out of business if I happen make a good deal.

I just try to make a deal based on what my research indicates I can buy the car for. If the dealer doesn't want the deal then it refuses the offer. I of course have some head room to up my offer but I still have a hard price -- usually -- that I will not go over so if the dealer refuses my subsequent offer, last offer, I walk.

There is always another car.
Yeah that VW story cracks me up. Those VW lots are usually empty. I bought a 2019 VW when they first came out in 2018 for like 6k under sticker. Dealer up the road didn't want to give me the price I wanted to pay, so bought it off the dealer not far from that one. Just have to find the right dealer, be patient and do your homework.
 

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My son is in the business and has helped me buy cars by providing info and insights. He is quick to say there are 3 forms of money in the deal: manufacturer's money, dealer's money and buyers' money.

Manufacturer's money is reflected by rebates.

Dealers' money does not include the rebates. Don't allow a dealer to convince you they are giving you a good price because of the rebates as they aren't the dealer's money. Subtract rebates from MSRP and you hit the top end of dealer's money. Dealer should negotiate between that top end and their costs.

My money is optimized by remembering the preceding.

I did the floor cost negotiation in the 90s for a dealer car. After having an offer declined, I calculated a rough carrying cost estmate and showed how my offer stopped the accrual of additional cost. My offer was then accepted within minutes.
 
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