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How will Dodge compete: 2012 Camaro ZL1

15K views 109 replies 53 participants last post by  TommyGNR 
#1 ·
I recently read that as a 2012 model, Chevrolet will be releasing the Camaro ZL1 rated at a minimum of 550 horsepower.

Dodge are you listening? Do you have an answer? I hope so!

Maybe a factory supercharger.

Any thoughts out there from the forum?
 
#2 ·
It would be nice to put a supercharger on it and an aluminum block to drop some of the weight gained from the supercharger. Pretty much what GM did and Ford did. It's too sweet of a car to fall behind the competition in power.
 
#3 ·
isn't there a point when too much power is just stoooopid? I've been reading about it too, but I just can't fathom what I would need that power for...

My RT is plenty. Sure I would love a little more, but another 175+? I don't see the use unless you drag for a living.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I think you are confusing the SLP-produced ZL Camaro with the soon-to-be-produced Chevrolet ZL1.

The one we are talking about in this thread is the Chevy which will feature the LSA supercharged engine out of the Cadillac CTS-V along with the Corvette magnetic ride control system. Should be a formidible vehicle, for sure, and I have a feeling 550HP is a low-ball number. Ifugure the MSRP will fall in the $50-55K range, depending on the options.

And lets face it, most of the people that buy these super muscle cars will never use them for what they were engineered to do. They'll sit in a garage most of the time and get taken out occasionally for a leisurely cruise on a sunny Sunday afternoon.
Blasphemy! But, unfortunately, you're probably right.
 
#6 ·
They will come out with a new " limited edition " color. Then the paint will be delayed and by 2014 the cars will finally be built but will sit in storage until 2016 when they will finally be delivered.....to the wrong dealers
 
#7 · (Edited)
I don't think Dodge is sweating it. The Challenger is a niche player in the performance market, and let's face it the strong suit is the styling. The 392 makes 470 HP; who really needs more?

I can't imagine spending $50K for a car that you'll just take to the track. You can build a 500-600HP engine, throw it in an old Camaro and win races if that's your main drive in life, and for a whole lot less than a new Challenger.
 
#8 ·
The reality remains- absolutely nothing will change even if Dodge doesn't come out with a response, altogether. :D

GM fans will still be buying Camaros.

Ford fans will still be buying Mustangs.

Dodge fans will still be buying Challengers.

...and for the special customer that simply cannot live w/o a 550+ hp beast? They will pick whatever car is their pet brand, and build it up with whatever aftermarket parts will add up to the crazy hp they seek. That kind of customer does not care if it comes off a dealer lot or out of a custom shop. They just have a dire need to blow a huge wad of cash on something in that time of their life.
 
#9 ·
Yep, once a week, there is a thread just like this or has similar characteristics. So what? The 392 is a badass car and does so without a blower, which IMO, is the better way. This is assuming Chrysler does not come out with something that comes closer in the power ratings. LOYALTY drives these kind of car sales, period. I would never buy a Mustang and yet at the same time, I can without any hesitation admit that the 5.0 is a badass in its own right (or the GT500, SS, ZL-1, you get it).
 
#11 ·
375+ HP is fast enough for me. I love my car as is and don't really see the need to play this HP game. Its expensive and pointless. And lets face it, most of the people that buy these super muscle cars will never use them for what they were engineered to do. They'll sit in a garage most of the time and get taken out occasionally for a leisurely cruise on a sunny Sunday afternoon.
 
#14 ·
I'm hoping Gilles is the man we all hope he is. Anybody who races vipers can't sit for long without doing something truly crazy. Besides, everybody knows the only true winner of a horsepower war is the consumer. So I say let Dodge fire the next volley.(Aluminum 426 from the 1420 concept would be nice.)
 
#17 ·
Let dodge first respond to the 5.0 first then let them think of competing with the ZL1. They basically don't understand the competition. As many members already responded, new limited edition color and thats it! I think dodge like to be the loser when it comes to the competition.

SE vs v6 mustang vs v6 camaro ... SE LAST
R/T vs SS vs GT ... R/T LAST
SRT vs GT500 vs ZL1 ... SRT LAST
6.1 vs SS vs 5.0 ... 6.1 LAST
392 vs SS vs 5.0 ... debatable, 392 could be 1st or 2nd .. still pathetic that we are not sure 392 is better than the 5.0

So dodge are just enjoying winning the beauty pageants. and thats it!
 
#27 · (Edited)
Let dodge first respond to the 5.0 first then let them think of competing with the ZL1. They basically don't understand the competition. As many members already responded, new limited edition color and thats it! I think dodge like to be the loser when it comes to the competition.

SE vs v6 mustang vs v6 camaro ... SE LAST
R/T vs SS vs GT ... R/T LAST
SRT vs GT500 vs ZL1 ... SRT LAST
6.1 vs SS vs 5.0 ... 6.1 LAST
392 vs SS vs 5.0 ... debatable, 392 could be 1st or 2nd .. still pathetic that we are not sure 392 is better than the 5.0

So dodge are just enjoying winning the beauty pageants. and thats it!
If it weren't for the HEMI Ford Mustangs would probably be still coming with 4.6L engines. Sure, the 5.0L is a great engine. But what else can you get from Ford? Chrysler offers a whole family of fun V8 RWD cars. Since 2004! They don't need to be the fastest anymore because fast has been overrated since Honda Accord V6 coupes do 0-60 in under 6 seconds and 550xi do it in 4.5 seconds flat now. So who cares. What matters is that these are fun yet comfortable cars. With a soul!
 
#19 ·
I'm not sure Dodge will even respond with a different version Challenger. You've got to remember that Ford and GM are doing very well right now; Chrysler is still limping along. The Mustang and Camaro sell a buttload (a buttload are also produced)...the Challenger sells 1/2 - 1/3 of what the Mustang and Camaro do...Chrylser isn't going to go out and do special editions of cars that only sell 40,000 units per year...

I would love to see a SC'ed aluminum 426 in a Challenger with a little bit of extra weight shed, but I honestly don't think it'll happen.
 
#21 · (Edited)
stryder09,
That's actually a pretty good point- that the best attention that Chrysler can draw to itself on specialty vehicles is not just pure numbers, but features that symbolize something highly coveted from the past. It's not a "550 hp engine" that will necessarily bring fans into the dealer lots,...

...but a "426 aluminum Hemi" absolutely would.

A "Cuda body kit" absolutely would.

An "official, wide-body Challenger kit" absolutely would.

A "6800 rpm valvetrain edition Hemi" absolutely would.
 
#25 ·
stryder09,
That's actually a pretty good point- that the best attention that Chrysler can draw to itself on specialty vehicles is not just pure numbers, but features that symbolize something highly coveted from the past. It's not a "550 hp engine" that will necessarily bring fans into the dealer lots,...

...but a "426 aluminum Hemi" absolutely would.

A "Cuda body kit" absolutely would.

An "official, wide-body Challenger kit" absolutely would.

A "6800 rpm valvetrain edition Hemi" absolutely would.
A factory shaker hood and a couple of good colors might also!
 
#23 ·
I'm an AVID Modern Mopar supporter!!! And I'll tell ya how they'll compete!!!.........................................they wont. :(
 
#26 ·
Honestly I think it's really just price.
Didn't the 2008 SRT8 sticker for $38k? Why is a comparable 2011 $5k more?
Have prices gone up that much on the Mustangs and Camaros?

If they want to compete against Ford and Chevy, all they have to do is knock the price down and make up for the lost margin with volume. I'm stabbing in the dark, but I honestly don't believe that the STR8 costs $25k more to build than an SE. Also, any high school kid with some savings, a job and decent money management skills can afford a Mustang--they start at $22k--the SE starts at $3500 more.

My guess is that they just don't have the production capacity to do so. Maybe BB can chime in--how many shifts are currently running?
 
#29 · (Edited)
We come from a different direction then. I give you that the SRT8s dont compete as well as when they first came out. But I also dont want my SRT8 to be constantly in the shop like many M5s (including the one of a co-worker). I do like the every day usefulness of the SRT8s. If you want a car from them that beats everyone around the track the SRT8s isnt it, I agree. It is not a helo car like a ZL1 or GT500. But I still think they are great cars for the money and offer value in other areas than just speed. I guess it is a bit more Street than Racing these days.
 
#32 ·
Dodge wins this battle with supercharging the 6.1. This is a easy solution for Dodge. The vortech supercharger takes the 6.1 Hemi from a stock naturally aspirated 425 hp to 560 hp. I say this is a easy solotion for Dodge because they can make adjustments on their 6.1 motor (supercharging) and not the 6.4 to win this battle. Once a supercharger comes out for the 6.4 I can imagine the Hp being somewhere in 610-620 range, maybe more. They say the car can handle a 1000 horsepower or more in its stock form.
 
#33 ·
I dont understand why people always compare the RT SS and GT

sure based on price but we all know the challenger costs more, Dodge has 2 NA V8 options, the RT is sort of on its own imo.

The SRT8 should be compared with the SS and GT which theyve updated and can now compete with them. Theyre all top of the line naturally aspirated muscle cars.

the ZL1 and GT500 are super charged top end options for the guys looking to spend tons of dough on the faster versions of the cars they like. Dodge simply doesnt offer an option like this.

Basically what im getting at is the line up of muscle cars from the big 3 dont exactly line up, SRT is inline with the SS and GT but it costs more, big deal challengers cost more through out the entire line up and I like it like that. This keeps every dumb ass kid with a couple bucks from buying challengers, let them buy mustangs and camaros. I'm happy with that.

PS everyone makes it seem like the GT will ANNIHILATE the RT, how many people have actually raced a mustang GT in a challenger RT? My room mate has a 5.0 GT and he is definitely faster than me but hes not pulling away like im standing still. he slowly inches ahead of me and by the time we're doing like 160kmh my nose just behind his rear bumper.

If he misses a shift (hes got a 6 speed, i got an auto) I gain some of the lost distance back.
 
#34 ·
ChallySRT8 Q8: Yes, SRT stands for street and racing technology, but what do you think R/T stands for?

I think it's neat that Dodge is producing high output engines without resorting to turbos or SC's. If you want more power than Dodge is making, then boost your Hemi. My understanding is that there are SC/turbo vendors who will warranty your engine.
 
#36 ·
ChallySRT8 Q8: Yes, SRT stands for street and racing technology, but what do you think R/T stands for?

I think it's neat that Dodge is producing high output engines without resorting to turbos or SC's. If you want more power than Dodge is making, then boost your Hemi. My understanding is that there are SC/turbo vendors who will warranty your engine.
I've heard the same, but I can only imagine trying to PROVE to the vendor the SC/Turbo is what CAUSED the problem...

It's probably a 50 step process of having your car towed (or actually shipped) to 1-10 different shops and having each shop tear down your engine to diagnose the problem, then have the car towed back to your house while you send the vendor the diagnostic/analysis from the 3 shops, then the vendor asking more questions... all at YOUR expense and time, then hopefully, the vendor agrees with the shops' findings... then I'm sure you'd have to pay for the car to be towed/shipped to the repair shop of the vendor's choosing.

It'd be MUCH easier, I'm sure, to have Dodge offer a blower package, with a warranty... Dodge would'nt need to develop the blower or tune (those are already done), they'd just need to get with the blower company and come to an agreement and hash out the details. That way, if something goes wrong, you take your car to the Dodge dealership and its handled. No fuss (comparitvely speaking).

Ford offers blowers for the Stang (and putting them on production vehicles), GM is making production vehicles with them... even Toyota was offering a SC package for years... but not Dodge. Why? my opinion is the non-forged (read: cheap) internals.

I love our Mopars, but they are seriously behind the curve, for whatever reason.
 
#35 ·
would it be nice if dodge made one from the factory that had 550+ hp, sure, but 470 will quench my thrist for hp/tq just fine for now. if in the future i want more power to "compete" with the high-end ovals and bowties, i know there are plenty of vendors willing to put my money to good use. instead of putting a sc other power adders into our cars from the factory, i'd rather they lighten the load by using aluminum and/or forge the internals, making the hemi's a little more mod friendly
 
#37 ·
"behind the curve"...because what? They don't follow lock-step with what everybody else does? The whole point of 3 manufacturers is not so that all 3 can offer the exact identical thing. It is to foster diversity in approaches and applications.

...besides nobody is stopping you from putting $10k of forged hardware and a blower on your own hemi. If that is what you want, then by all means, you should do it. You'll be a lot more satisfied with hand-picking your own parts for the job, than having to second guess what Dodge put in there, as to if it meets your standards. Get what I'm saying? ;)
 
#38 ·
"behind the curve"...because what? They don't follow lock-step with what everybody else does? The whole point of 3 manufacturers is not so that all 3 can offer the exact identical thing. It is to foster diversity in approaches and applications.

...besides nobody is stopping you from putting $10k of forged hardware and a blower on your own hemi. If that is what you want, then by all means, you should do it. You'll be a lot more satisfied with hand-picking your own parts for the job, than having to second guess what Dodge put in there, as to if it meets your standards. Get what I'm saying? ;)
Behind the curve in that they don't offer a wide variety of warranteed mods...

I'd rather have a Dodge warrantee than be able to hand pick mods that could destroy my car that may come with a hassle-filled warranty... juss sayin'.
 
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