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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone ever experience an "ice mode" moment when the abs just decides it doesn't want to apply the brakes?

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Your explanation of "ice mode" is a little confusing. When I brake on ice, my ABS pulses in an attempt to stop the wheels from locking up and skidding. I must say, I've never had my Challenger on ice or snow, or even braked hard on any loose gravel, so I'm assuming that it would work the same as it does in my RAM truck (which I drive in all manner of poor surfaces) and my previous vehicles.

Sounds like you're explaining a situation where you apply the brakes, and they don't brake (the feeling of sliding on ice)?

If that's the case, this would be a severe safety hazard and definitely not normal operation. The entire brake system should be checked for wear on the pads, air in the lines, or faulty wheel speed sensors.
 

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My explanation of it is exactly that you hit the brakes and they give you the big middle finger...lol. I've only had it happen twice and only driving competitively for autocross. It doesn't happen in normal every day driving. The brake system works fine. Mustangs and Camaros are more prone to experience it. It happens when the car is in an upset condition being pushed at It's limit. More specifically a hard braking zone that is bumpy. My buddy has been able to tune it out of his Mustang and I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the issue and successfully tuned it out of these cars.

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It sounds like brake fade to me

What brake fluid are you running, how often do you change it?

What brake pads are you running at these events?

What rotors?
 

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Stainless steel brake lines?

A Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Trust me guys it's not brake fade. After it got out of that situation I dove into the next corner at 70 and stood her on her nose with no problem. It's a programming thing with the abs. I'm pretty sure I can kill abs thru the tuner and get rid of it, but I sorta like some abs....lol. Was hoping someone knew a way to tune it out.

I'm using Carbotech XP10 in front and 8s in the rear. Still stock rotors and fluid.

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Had that happen once, in a true panic-stop situation. Hard on the pedal @70 mph, and the brakes just said nope. No ABS pulsation, just a rock-hard pedal and no brakes. 10K on the clock at the time, factory pads & rotors. Dodge owes me a new pair of shorts.
 

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I don't know if your car has a software problem, but the pre-2008 SRTs experienced "knockback," a phenomenon common during high-performance driving. Heavy cornering loads forced the rotors to flex and knocked the pistons back into the caliper. This resulted in long brake-pedal feel; initial pedal pressure merely moved the pistons back into their proper position before any actual braking occurred. This sounds similar to what you are experiencing while racing.

Dodge engineers, however, corrected this problem on the Challenger SRTs by an upgrade to the ABS/ESP software.

 

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This happens because there is zero traction on ice. The abs is programmed to keep the wheels from locking and when you have zero traction the abs keeps backing the brakes off while trying to keep the wheels from locking which is impossible because you have zero traction. On ice, it doesn't matter if you have abs or not, the car won't stop with zero traction. You can also experience this on a washboard surface when the wheels start hopping on braking.
 

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This happens because there is zero traction on ice. The abs is programmed to keep the wheels from locking and when you have zero traction the abs keeps backing the brakes off while trying to keep the wheels from locking which is impossible because you have zero traction. On ice, it doesn't matter if you have abs or not, the car won't stop with zero traction. You can also experience this on a washboard surface when the wheels start hopping on braking.

Steve's problem occurs when he is racing. He says it just feels like he is braking on ice.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Steve's problem occurs when he is racing. He says it just feels like he is braking on ice.
Yea and I think the problem is the braking zone over a bump. The car is upset to begin with and the abs tries to compensate thinking it's on ice. I was hoping someone could tune it out of the abs but still leave it on. I think I've got it out by turning off abs with the tune.

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Steve's problem occurs when he is racing. He says it just feels like he is braking on ice.
I realize that Cuda, and I could have explained that better. He is braking hard on rough surface and all it takes is one wheel to start hopping on the rough pavement and the abs will back off the brakes to keep it from locking. The only way to stop that is to turn off the abs when he is doing autocross. I don't think you can tune it out. Maybe with shock settings. Probably the inside rear wheel that is light on hard braking and turning at the same time on a rough surface. I wonder if the SRT cars have a different program on the abs in "Track Mode".
 
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I read about it on the Camaro forums but I never heard any fix for it but like you said bypass the ABS. I know in the road race classes they can taylor the ABS with a knob but I dont know what it is modifiying or if they even use the factory ABS set up.

Wierd thing is the first snow in my 2015 Jeep SRT I tried it out in a parking lot and I couldnt get the vehicle to do it it always went into full ABS with alot of pedal travel. I tried the track and the snow mode. Snow mode really works it just chokes down the vehicle so much it wont let you spin.



https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/534934-well-abs-ice-mode-finally-got-me.html

first page there is a good explanation near the bottom and whalla its Bosch system. threads 2009.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yea the Mustang and Camaro guys seems to experience it most. Our system isn't as bad as theirs but it's still there.

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I think I found a test spot....the stop light right in front of the Comcast building heading towards I 40 on Ashville highway the left lane is all waves from big truck stopping there.

Ill try and do some testing over there see what I cant get or not get to do.
 

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I think I found a test spot....the stop light right in front of the Comcast building heading towards I 40 on Ashville highway the left lane is all waves from big truck stopping there.

Ill try and do some testing over there see what I cant get or not get to do.
Yea that's probably a good spot. Just don't go sailing off into the sunset when the brakes give you the middle finger...lol

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I learned from an old sheriff friend of mine that in a pursuit situation, to get around the ABS in their vehicles they would actually pump the brakes instead of just jamming the brake pedal. Might help, but then again, this was 15 or so years ago. Not sure if it will still work today but maybe worth a try.
 
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