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Is it Worth it to Mod the 3.6L?

21K views 79 replies 28 participants last post by  Wm. Internet Rock DJ 
#1 ·
In this video, Racer X discusses the practicality of modding the 3.6L engine.

 
#3 · (Edited)
Just posting for discussion. Do you guys agree with Racer X's assertions? He is basically saying that the 3.6 is a great cruising but not a performance engine. Simple mods are okay, like a cold air intake, headers and possibly porting. However, digging into the engine and doing stuff like replacing the four cams, or adding a supercharger, would be extremely costly and could affect engine reliability. If performance is desired, it would be cheaper to buy a 5.7L R/T.
 
#5 ·
If performance on a budget is the goal, I would agree that the 6 isn't the way to go. But, I think there are a handful of people who would like to pump up a v6 and make a sleeper out of it. Likely not many people, but they are out there. But no, you won't do it affordably. But a well tuned super charged 6 I think would beat stock scat packs wouldn't it? Nothing to sneeze at.
 
#4 ·
My personal opinion. I wish people, including the guy in the video, didn't stage it as either "right or wrong". "good or bad". It's never so black and white, and 90% opinion based. I think people need to clearly understand what their end goal is, I believe that is most important part to have in your mind.

Few people actually want only the most possible power with the least amount of money. Otherwise this is not the car would be driving. There is a spectrum of wants. Comfort, Power, size, looks, ability to mod, brand preference.

If you are throwing money at something with no plan, no it's not likely to end up in your favor. You will be that guy saying I threw five grand at my 5.7 and still getting beat by stock 6.4s, and they are all upset about it and blame the car, then the car gets its feelings hurt. Rude. Had you known your end goal, you would have known the result.

Personally, my first real mod likely will be a stroker. It will be down the road, and may never even come to fruition. Maybe I could swing a hellcat at that point, maybe not. But I love my car as is, and can't get a shaker on a hellcat. That is my opinion alone, and likely nobody agrees with me, which goes back to my point which is that my end goal isn't to beat hellcat for less money. I just think it is stupid cool to have a 426 hemi stroker, knowing I won't be beating hellcats. And I am fine with that. So much of these cars is cool factor.

And, if I really wanted to make the money argument, I still could likely do that within reason. I paid 37k for my new scat. Say 42ish out the door (taxes and such). "used hellcats could be had for low 50s". OK well, misleading statement, because my car wasn't used. OK, 60+ for a new hellcat, not sure what they actually go for. I could do a whole Lotta mods for that 20k difference. I haven't done the math, because that isn't my end goal, but I wouldn't be surprised if I could beat a hellcat with 20k+ in the motor and drive train of a 6.4. Plus what I am guessing is a real bump in insurance costs. Would a car with 20k in mods be as reliable? Nope. There is no one answer that works for everyone.

Anyway. That's my thoughts. I wish people didn't deal in absolutes so often.
 
#6 ·
. I wish people didn't deal in absolutes so often.
Only a sith deals in absolutes.
Sorry I just watched the movie last night, I had to.

I think the biggest issue with modding the 3.6 is a lot of the time it's someone who couldn't afford a V8 but they wanna make their car as fast as the hemi. There's nothing wrong with modding the 3.6 as long as you're reasoning isn't to make it compete with the hemi you couldn't afford, because to make the 3.6 competed you gotta spend more money than a 5.7 or even 392 would cost, and you lose the warranty on the v6 as well as reliability from added HP. Not to mention smaller brakes, suspension, drivetrain, blah blah blah.

I may be biased but I still think if you wanna build a car on a budget the 5.7 is the best option in dodges lineup. It comes with many of the same drivetrain components as the 392, it can take 8lbs boost all day reliably, has the V8 sound, good amount of aftermarket support, etc all for a price not much higher than the 3.6 (usually)
 
#7 ·
Only reason I spent the coin to drop a 426 stroker in my ’15 SRT392 is I wanted something unique. I love the car so was a no brainer for me. Otherwise a Cat for sure would have been in the cards.

The disease continues. Getting ready to add an F1x Procharger to the mix which also comes with upgrading the HP70 trans. Still staying unique though :)
 
#10 · (Edited)
the 3.6 can't even have headers since there's no external exhaust manifold - its all cast into the head and the head pipe simply bolts to the exhaust port on the head...

and it does bring up the points that if one has the base SXT suspension and brakes (single piston) and the smaller 195mm diff, along with the 8HP45 - adding significant power is going to tax those more meager components.

there's folks that go with putting the centrifugal superchargers on the 3.6, but might ignore the critical items, such as brakes to haul down from speeds that the additional power provides.

In that video of Racer X - the Charger and Challenger are base models (17" wheels) so they have the smaller brakes, differential and the softest rate springs and shocks of all the trim levels
 
#15 ·
As a relatively new challenger owner (just got my 2020 GT in June) I'll throw in a consideration I had that wasn't mentioned yet.

Location - I live in New England and a good chunk of the year isn't very friendly to high HP rear-wheel drive vehicles. AWD was pretty non-negotiable for me. And until there is an AWD V8 (a guy can dream right?) it narrowed down my options quickly.

Location also accounts for my daily commute. 36 miles each way is no joke, so MPG was also kind of in the back of my mind.

Since this is also really my first foray into muscle cars and customization the V6 made a whole lot of sense. I recognize I don't get some of the cool V8 toys like superchargers and shaker packs but that's ok for now. I think my car looks rad, sounds rad and drives like a dream, it's fast enough for me. And I'm not blowing up my budget to get a lot of value.

I think there's a big value proposition to be made for the Pentastar.
 
#20 ·
As a relatively new challenger owner (just got my 2020 GT in June) I'll throw in a consideration I had that wasn't mentioned yet.

Location - I live in New England and a good chunk of the year isn't very friendly to high HP rear-wheel drive vehicles. AWD was pretty non-negotiable for me. And until there is an AWD V8 (a guy can dream right?) it narrowed down my options quickly.

Location also accounts for my daily commute. 36 miles each way is no joke, so MPG was also kind of in the back of my mind.

Since this is also really my first foray into muscle cars and customization the V6 made a whole lot of sense. I recognize I don't get some of the cool V8 toys like superchargers and shaker packs but that's ok for now. I think my car looks rad, sounds rad and drives like a dream, it's fast enough for me. And I'm not blowing up my budget to get a lot of value.

I think there's a big value proposition to be made for the Pentastar.
I live in Idaho and weather was also a consideration of mine. My 2018 SXT is RWD but with dedicated snow tires (and more years than I care to admit driving RWD cars in the snow} I get around just fine and don't regret it at all. And you are right, it looks and sounds great and doesn't break the bank.
 
#21 ·
Yeah it's worth it if that's what you want but when you get down to modding any car you have to have some deep pockets, when you get to modding the purpose is to have more power, then when you get that power you start breaking drivetrain ****, then it's back to the part store.
 
#23 ·
There seems to be a disconnect between what the video’s name (and this thread’s title) implies versus what the majority of the video was dealing with.

I was expecting to hear him lay out the different mods that can be done to a 3.6L car and what performance benefits (if any) could be expected compared to the mod’s cost.

Instead, it was basically just him saying the base trim cars are pretty good daily drivers, and while mods can be done, the serious ones either aren’t worth the money or aren’t advisable due to the decline in reliability that might come along with them.

In an ideal world, I think that video has a title more representative of its content (e.g. ‘Should You Get a Dodge 3.6L Car?’, or ‘Reasons to Choose a Dodge 3.6L Car’), and a different video has this one’s title. One that lays out the costs, difficulty of install, and expected returns of the various performance mods that can be done to a 3.6L powered car.

And I would think such a video would at the very least detail performance mods like:
  • CAI
  • exhaust
  • handheld tuner
  • custom tune
  • LSD rear-end
  • supercharger
  • NOS

But that’s in a perfect world, and I realize we are far from that, so...
 
#34 ·
Gotta get that video to a certain length to satisfy Google to get their annoying ads in there lol. Ive seen another guy (OCMotivator) say that Google likes to see at least 8 minute long videos for that purpose.
 
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#26 ·
His videos are all like that. It's more a "you know nothing about these cars, so let me give you the basics". I didn't watch this one, but would agree if you bought the V6, then proceeded to dump money in to it for performance, you didn't make the right purchase. There are however many reasons for someone to end up with a V6 car, and decide to up the performance. Whether it is worth it? Probably not. For me, ultimately it would be the lack of an awesome exhaust note that would be the deal breaker

A Guy
 
#31 ·
Oh man, those last two posts come across much differently if you accidentally perceive an “F” where there are “T”s in a couple spots.

min other words, the first time I read the replies, I didn’t see tuckage and untucked. I saw their “F” equivalents. :oops:

1000494
 
#33 ·
I gotta comment on this as I think it touches a pretty personal spot for me.

I think Racer X is spot on with what he is saying. If you open up your mind and listen to the man, he is speaking some very real truths here.

Allow me to explain from my point of view. I grew up in the 70's and 80's and owned a 1982 Firebird v8 LG4 and a 1982 Buick Grand National.

FIREBIRD
From stock It ran a whopping 16 second 1/4 mile with it's amazingly low 145HP LG4 engine. I purchased it used for $7000 back then which is was a few years old and I couldn't afford a brand new 1987 Trans am with a Tuned port Injection engine. After about 8k in mods I was able to get the car down into the 13.8 range in the 1/4.
The Trans am runs around 14.8 stock and only needs a few mods to get into the 13.s

My Grand National ran 13.6 stock spinning the tires all the way down the track basically and with just a set of tires and a downpipes it went right into the 12's.

My wife has a 2019 Charger AWD v6 and its a blast to drive. As Racer X was saying it's comfortable and never feels like it lacks power. After Driving the Scat Pack T/A yesterday I see totally the extreme difference in power. Her car as was around 38k and the Scat Pack is 47k. So for 9k you go from mild to wild.

How much are you gonna have to spend to get the v6 anywhere near the performance and you have to void your warranty to do so.

So the comments about doing mild mods that won't void your warranty on a v6 model I think is a nice way to personalize it and not give up on what it was designed to do. the Scat Pack is designed to be a monster and you really need to do nothing other then better tires.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I roll my eyes at videos and articles like that... especially when he talks about “headers” on an engine that has a single exhaust port on each head 🤣🙄🤪

There’s no single answer as to whether its “right“ or “makes sense” to modify an engine. certainly It is going to cost more to get 450 halfway reliable horsepower (IOW not “spray and pray”) out of a 3.6 than to just sell and buy a car with a stock 485 hp 6.4... but are you doing it for the dyno number, or for the challenge of being different.? Is it a GT and you want to keep AWD and have more power? Are you a real, skilled, car guy who can figure things out and fabricate, or do you just bolt stuff on (if the latter, you’d better go buy a generic motors LS)? There’s not a lot of aftermarket for the 3.6, its pretty much considered an excellent, reliable, but utilitarian engine. But for a lot of people, that’s the fun. I’d rather spend hours sorting out how to modify an interesting and unusual engine than even look at a Chevy 350 or LS where you can just order out of a catalog.

Personally, I don’t really get why people invest a lot in “modding” anything newer than 1980, anyway, (with a few exceptions like a GN or Viper) because they’re still depreciating and mostly plastic to start with. I have a 12 SRT8 daily driver and LOVE IT, but it’ll never get much beyond a Barton shifter, tower brace, and some urethane bushings (functional upgrades). if I’m going crazy, I’ll find a classic (car or pickup) and either G3 Hemi swap it, or modify its original engine if it’s something interesting like a Buick nailhead, Mopar RB or Gen 1 Hemi, Ford 385 series, etc. But that’s just me... I know it’s not for everyone else.
 
#44 ·
I roll my eyes at videos and articles like that... especially when he talks about “headers” on an engine that has a single exhaust port on each head 🤣🙄🤪

There’s no single answer as to whether its “right“ or “makes sense” to modify an engine. certainly It is going to cost more to get 450 halfway reliable horsepower (IOW not “spray and pray”) out of a 3.6 than to just sell and buy a car with a stock 485 hp 6.4... but are you doing it for the dyno number, or for the challenge of being different.? Is it a GT and you want to keep AWD and have more power? Are you a real, skilled, car guy who can figure things out and fabricate, or do you just bolt stuff on (if the latter, you’d better go buy a generic motors LS)? There’s not a lot of aftermarket for the 3.6, its pretty much considered an excellent, reliable, but utilitarian engine. But for a lot of people, that’s the fun. I’d rather spend hours sorting out how to modify an interesting and unusual engine than even look at a Chevy 350 or LS where you can just order out of a catalog.

Personally, I don’t really get why people invest a lot in “modding” anything newer than 1980, anyway, (with a few exceptions like a GN or Viper) because they’re still depreciating and mostly plastic to start with. I have a 12 SRT8 daily driver and LOVE IT, but it’ll never get much beyond a Barton shifter, tower brace, and some urethane bushings (functional upgrades). if I’m going crazy, I’ll find a classic (car or pickup) and either G3 Hemi swap it, or modify its original engine if it’s something interesting like a Buick nailhead, Mopar RB or Gen 1 Hemi, Ford 385 series, etc. But that’s just me... I know it’s not for everyone else.
Interesting note about 1980 being the cutoff. In my eyes, depreciation has done its final damage well before the 30 year mark. I have a 5 year old dart that is basically worthless. Worth less than half what I paid, which was already a steep steep discount from MSRP, and I bought new. MSRP $24-25ish, pd $17ish new, worth $8ish.

I also don't agree with most people's concern over depreciation to begin with. They buy a new or relatively new car then try treat it a certain way to "avoid depreciation". As in no mods, try and keep miles down, whatever. If you are really worried about depreciation, you should really only be buying 10-15 year old cars. New vehicles are terrible investments. There is no way around it. So to go to a bunch of effort keep maybe a couple percentage points off depreciation, it's just an odd concept. Drive and enjoy the car. Otherwise, why buy it? "I spent a large sum of money on this car and I'm not going to drive it or do anything to it so it's perfect for the next person and I might get $500-1k more out of it five years down the road. Net win for me". To each their own.
 
#46 ·
Good 0-60 times (y)

A Guy
 
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#48 ·
6.0 is common with the V6. I have gotten a 5.9, but don't often try. 5.8 or lower is very good

A Guy
 
#49 ·
For the Cost of the Upgrading best trade the SE / SXT and some cash towards the RT or SRT... Supercharger 6 to 7k , PCM Swap, Programming, upgrade U Joints, Brakes etc., id say not worth it.
IF you want it to have a quicker launch Rear End Upgrade, Program, etc still costly and of course faster car means upgrade the breaking system. Personally though the SE / SXT is not HP like the other models I love my SXT and shes quick enough good gas milliage and cheaper on Insurance still a blast to drive...
 
#51 ·
Quick question for you guys in this thread, why no mention of nitrous? I agree that it’s not really cost effective to throw 6 to 8 grand into say a supercharger for a 3.6 that might put you around 5.7 hp numbers, likely with less tq when as a lot of you guys stated above that the reason you got the SXT was because of budget reasons or gas mileage concerns. Why not get a nitrous kit for $500-700 throw an 85 shot on safely to have some fun at the track or for some extra jam when you want it without sacrificing every day reliability, mpg or drivability? An N20 kit is a fairly easy install, at least on vehicles I’ve done it on (4th gen Fbodies) and checks a lot of boxes as far as great bang for your buck performance without wrecking the daily driving characteristics of the car. Just an honest question as I don’t see it mentioned much.
 
#52 ·
I think most people who want to mod the 3.6L for more performance are looking to realize some added oomph on a daily driver, and the vast majority will likely never go to the track with their 3.6L.

Nitrous’ major limitation, in my view, is its impracticality for stop light to stop light WOT driving, and that’s where most of the folks modding their 3.6L will be spending their time.
 
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#53 ·
I think most people who want to mod the 3.6L for more performance are looking to realize some added oomph on a daily driver, and the vast majority will likely never go to the track with their 3.6L.

Nitrous’ major limitation, in my view, is its impracticality for stop light to stop light WOT driving, and that’s where most of the folks modding their 3.6L will be spending their time.
I don't understand why those that bought a 3.6 didn't just go with the 5.7, mpg is about the same and the prices is not that much difference either🤷‍♂️
 
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