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Discussion Starter #1
So I just saw the pictures and articles about the 2019 Corvette ZR-1. It looks amazing. Between that, the Camaro 1LE line, the Shelby GT350R, and the new Mustang Performance pack level 2, I can't help but think Mopar is lagging behind the competition.

The Viper ACR is gone, and we have nothing for track time duty. I know you're thinking "But the Demon beats everything", well sure it does, but only in drag racing. The Hellcat, SRT 392, are great well-rounded cars, but they are not track focused. Same goes for the T/A and my own stripper Scat Pack. These cars are all great fun, but I don't think Mopar is bringing out 100% of the handling potential.

Drag racing was everything for bragging rights in the 60s, and Mopar was always one of the top dogs. Still to this day. But I get the feeling that it's the only focus here and that road course/handling/autoX type stuff doesn't get the attention it deserves in the Mopar world. We don't even have a forum section for it here. The track talk section is all drag racing. I enjoy the 1/4 mile run from time to time but there is more fun to be had in my opinion.

I don't blame Dodge/FCA. They've done a great job at building cars/SUVs/trucks that us enthusiasts love. They respond to feedback and demand, even when they have limited budgets and platforms to work with. I think it starts with us Mopar lovers.

I would really just like to see more factory support for those of us who love the twisty turns as well as acceleration and speed. I still think that the T/A models were a missed opportunity. Beautiful yes, but mostly an appearance package. There is more potential in this heavy, dated platform. It's up to us to signal FCA that we want it.
 

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The '19 'Vette ZR-1 is altogether another category from the Challenger.

Probably the approach would be to lighten up an SRT 392 and go with wide-body option on that and do a similar approach with the WB 'Cat that would have lightened components.

Presently, on the Challenger 'Cat and WB 'Cat - there's a Rear Seat Delete group option ($0) that omits the passenger seat and rear seat. I looks like a cargo net goes in the rear seat area? (description isn't that detailed)

Then it would get closer to the Camaro ZL-1 / 1LE package if FCA went with approach of a pared down Challenger, lighter componentry and all-out track suspension setups.

As it has been noted the WB 'Cat runs faster times on the track due to the greater grip of those 305s with the WB option.

GM has updated the Camaro with a more recent platform design and FCA is running an older platform that's nearing its end, if MY '20 is still on track...so there'd be two more model years after the current '18s.

If there aren't any more delays of the predicted move to another platform for MY '21 which is the Ghibli platform [M157] that the Maserati Ghibli utilizes.
 

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The '19 'Vette ZR-1 is altogether another category from the Challenger.

Probably the approach would be to lighten up an SRT 392 and go with wide-body option on that and do a similar approach with the WB 'Cat that would have lightened components.

Presently, on the Challenger 'Cat and WB 'Cat - there's a Rear Seat Delete group option ($0) that omits the passenger seat and rear seat. I looks like a cargo net goes in the rear seat area? (description isn't that detailed)

Then it would get closer to the Camaro ZL-1 / 1LE package if FCA went with approach of a pared down Challenger, lighter componentry and all-out track suspension setups.

As it has been noted the WB 'Cat runs faster times on the track due to the greater grip of those 305s with the WB option.

GM has updated the Camaro with a more recent platform design and FCA is running an older platform that's nearing its end, if MY '20 is still on track...so there'd be two more model years after the current '18s.

If there aren't any more delays of the predicted move to another platform for MY '21 which is the Giorgio that the Maserati Ghibli utilizes.
I thought the Giorgio was the one the Giulia used?
 

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I thought the Giorgio was the one the Giulia used?
You're correct - the Ghibli is M157. I'll use that as a reference. The Quattroporte is M156 which is a bit longer than the M157.

I got the names scrambled up.
 

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When Dodge stopped building the Viper, it went back to its drag racing roots and the Demon became the new halo car.

When Tim Kuniskis unveiled the Demon, he said, "Working from our background, we chose to be the best version of what we can be. We are completely different. We are not building sports cars or pony cars. We are building street, strip muscle cars. No one else is in that space."

 

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When Dodge stopped building the Viper, it went back to its drag racing roots and the Demon became the new halo car.

When Tim Kuniskis unveiled the Demon, he said, "Working from our background, we chose to be the best version of what we can be. We are completely different. We are not building sports cars or pony cars. We are building street, strip muscle cars. No one else is in that space."

Demon Unleashed | Challenger SRT® Demon | Dodge - YouTube
Which makes me a little sad, cause the Viper was good at what it was, but I doubt it was making them much money if they didn't have any other sport/track cars at entry level.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
One downside to the Viper was that it was it's own breed, sharing very little with other Dodges. While that's great for it as it can't be held back by platform constraints, unfortunately that made it very expensive for a Dodge, unattainable to many, and very little of the parts, technology and lessons learned from setting lap records trickled down to other Mopars. That's why I believe some of that track ready know-how should be invested in the Challenger and Charger. It's part of the road racing heritage too, look at Trans-Am series (Which is great to watch by the way).
 

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I do have to agree thought that Dodge/FCA have to step up their game. The Hellcat was a fantastic flag ship of a car for the last 2-3 years. But the competition is not sleeping and you cannot rest on your laurels for more than 2 years. That LT5 engine might just make it into a top end Camaro that will then beat the Hellcats at the strip due to lighter weight and traction in addition to that horsepower. The Challenger Demon is a halo car that is limited in production for 2018, so I'd argue that it doesn't really count for the regular dodge/FCA lineup.
 

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So I just saw the pictures and articles about the 2019 Corvette ZR-1. It looks amazing. Between that, the Camaro 1LE line, the Shelby GT350R, and the new Mustang Performance pack level 2, I can't help but think Mopar is lagging behind the competition.

The Viper ACR is gone, and we have nothing for track time duty. I know you're thinking "But the Demon beats everything", well sure it does, but only in drag racing. The Hellcat, SRT 392, are great well-rounded cars, but they are not track focused. Same goes for the T/A and my own stripper Scat Pack. These cars are all great fun, but I don't think Mopar is bringing out 100% of the handling potential.

Drag racing was everything for bragging rights in the 60s, and Mopar was always one of the top dogs. Still to this day. But I get the feeling that it's the only focus here and that road course/handling/autoX type stuff doesn't get the attention it deserves in the Mopar world. We don't even have a forum section for it here. The track talk section is all drag racing. I enjoy the 1/4 mile run from time to time but there is more fun to be had in my opinion.

I don't blame Dodge/FCA. They've done a great job at building cars/SUVs/trucks that us enthusiasts love. They respond to feedback and demand, even when they have limited budgets and platforms to work with. I think it starts with us Mopar lovers.

I would really just like to see more factory support for those of us who love the twisty turns as well as acceleration and speed. I still think that the T/A models were a missed opportunity. Beautiful yes, but mostly an appearance package. There is more potential in this heavy, dated platform. It's up to us to signal FCA that we want it.
yeah the whole widebody thing been pretty disappointment for me.... I have been shopping a Viper for about a year now just not really ready to pull the trigger.

I just finished re reading about DSSV shocks and looking at Camaro Zl1 1le prices.

They are missing the bus with me. Just the top of the line Giulia is all I have looked at in the Fiat line this year and maybe the Trackhawk.
 

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would love to see a v8 version of the GT. It already has All wheel drive & stiffer suspension... now mind you... a 305 hp V6 is no slouch... and trust me ... it screams through corners with very little body roll and the all wheel drive sticks it to the pavement like glue... but there is no way I think it could stand up to the viper corvette power.... if they made a 5.7 version like the challenger... well... that would be a whole different discussion...
 

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we are one of the few people trying to compete on track with Challengers, and it has been a struggle.....with very little help....no help








the biggest issue is weight, 400/600 lbs heavier than anybody else and we have taken a bunch of weight out
 

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I do open track events in my Charger Scat Pack. Mostly do Porsche and BMW events because they're well organized. Lots of LOLs when I show up with my "poor man's M5" but often that turns into grudging acceptance after a few sessions on track. It's pretty damn capable and just plain FUN.

Weight and resultant understeer are major problems. I would LOVE an aluminum block to take 100 pounds off the front end. I keep hoping that Ralph Gilles or Tim Kuniskis will see fit to do another niche LX/LA vehicle geared towards road courses. How about a 426 all-aluminum Gen III Hemi from the factory? I'm dreaming, I know.

Carbon-fiber bodywork? Available but too expensive. Rear-seat delete? Lightweight wheels? OK but weight savings would be negligible.

The good news is you can have a LOT of fun, and shame much more expensive cars, with any V8 LX, LC, or LA on the road course. Spend a little money on 1) improving the driver 2) wheels and tires and 3) brakes and go have fun!
 

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I do open track events in my Charger Scat Pack. Mostly do Porsche and BMW events because they're well organized. Lots of LOLs when I show up with my "poor man's M5" but often that turns into grudging acceptance after a few sessions on track. It's pretty damn capable and just plain FUN.

Weight and resultant understeer are major problems. I would LOVE an aluminum block to take 100 pounds off the front end. I keep hoping that Ralph Gilles or Tim Kuniskis will see fit to do another niche LX/LA vehicle geared towards road courses. How about a 426 all-aluminum Gen III Hemi from the factory? I'm dreaming, I know.

Carbon-fiber bodywork? Available but too expensive. Rear-seat delete? Lightweight wheels? OK but weight savings would be negligible.

The good news is you can have a LOT of fun, and shame much more expensive cars, with any V8 LX, LC, or LA on the road course. Spend a little money on 1) improving the driver 2) wheels and tires and 3) brakes and go have fun!
Where do I buy driver improvements?

Is that what the dude in the dark corner sells? I thought he was selling specialty flours for exotic cake baking.

Apparently, you can reduce a bit more by taking out the trunk liner. If you can train a child to drive, you can reduce anywhere from 100-200 lbs!
 

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I do wish there were some factory ready Road Race cars like Ford and Chevy do, but these cars are no slouch on the track either. Add some suspension bits and really have some fun :)

SRT8U (Forum name) here with his 2017 Charger Hellcat - only suspension tweaks so far on this one is our front brace. We have recently lowered it, but have not made it to the track since then


One of our local customers that has our full suspension set up in his 2016 Challenger SRT 392


Both from PBIR here in Palm Beach.

-Chris
 

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Where do I buy driver improvements?

Is that what the dude in the dark corner sells? I thought he was selling specialty flours for exotic cake baking.

Apparently, you can reduce a bit more by taking out the trunk liner. If you can train a child to drive, you can reduce anywhere from 100-200 lbs!
Hey, a lot of Americans are fatasses. If that applies to you, invest in a treadmill or join Jenny Craig and lose 50 pounds. Improve your performance without spending thousands of dollars on aluminum or carbon fiber parts.

But seriously, autocross, Skip Barber, BMW, Porsche, etc. driving schools- will make you faster without spending a dime on car improvements. I once watched Hans Stuck lap Road Atlanta in 1:38 in a new Beetle.
 

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we are one of the few people trying to compete on track with Challengers, and it has been a struggle.....with very little help....no help



Wow, that car is a looker for sure.
 

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Hey, a lot of Americans are fatasses. If that applies to you, invest in a treadmill or join Jenny Craig and lose 50 pounds. Improve your performance without spending thousands of dollars on aluminum or carbon fiber parts.

But seriously, autocross, Skip Barber, BMW, Porsche, etc. driving schools- will make you faster without spending a dime on car improvements. I once watched Hans Stuck lap Road Atlanta in 1:38 in a new Beetle.
You are spot on here. The advice I was given on the fastest way to go faster is #1 get good tires and #2 seat time, seat time, seat time. A fast driver can overcome the handling of a less prepped car. And if you have all these go fast parts before you know how the car responds you don't know what adjustments to make or if they'll even help if your not consistent.
And for weight reduction. ...we don't want to hear it but more most of us the biggest bang for our buck is to push away from the dinner table. Sure lighter car parts help but 50# is still 50#.

These cars are very capable and competitive for most of us. It's only when you step up to the level that Luke and team are at where we are at a real disadvantage. But those guys have done some amazing things with Big Red!

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
 

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thank you, Bigred is significantly better now than the driver, but had several conversations with Danny Popp and will be attending several of his racing schools, the biggest issue we have right now is brakes, what we are using is not working at this level and we struggled badly in Vegas with it

other is weight, Bigred now weights 4080, we took out a lot of weight but we added the supercharger and roll cage

we lost 58 lbs in wheels and tires, would love for Bridgestone to introduce 315's or 335's in 19 inch wheel configuration, right now on biggest tires they make

lost approx 45 lbs with seats, rear seat delete was another 40 + lbs

Luke

ps we are trying to find one of the old carbon fiber dash used in TA and nation wide series and hopefully strip air bags, and a great deal of the dash weight, we dont want to loose all functionality
 

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thank you, Bigred is significantly better now than the driver, but had several conversations with Danny Popp and will be attending several of his racing schools, the biggest issue we have right now is brakes, what we are using is not working at this level and we struggled badly in Vegas with it

other is weight, Bigred now weights 4080, we took out a lot of weight but we added the supercharger and roll cage

we lost 58 lbs in wheels and tires, would love for Bridgestone to introduce 315's or 335's in 19 inch wheel configuration, right now on biggest tires they make

lost approx 45 lbs with seats, rear seat delete was another 40 + lbs

Luke

ps we are trying to find one of the old carbon fiber dash used in TA and nation wide series and hopefully strip air bags, and a great deal of the dash weight, we dont want to loose all functionality
One of our guys that went to SCCA Nationals this year spoke with a Bridgestone rep and he stated Bridgestone won't be releasing any additional sizes right now because they are working on the next generation of tire to replace the RE71s. That will probably be released in 2019. I also hope when they do that they come out with 315 or 335 to compete with BFG.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
 
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