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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long story short, Ive been driving manuals for more than 35 years. This is the first manual that just simply pisses me off. It is rough shifting, crude, but typical Tremec.

Leave the shifter itself OUT of this discussion. It is not the problem. This tranny blows as did my T6 in my SRT-10. But, I can live with the crudeness.

What I simply CANNOT live with is the transmission forcing me into 4th from first. So, I installed the skip shift. Seems like that worked. HOWEVER, there is another issue which I suspect is electronics. No matter what drive mode I am in, I am crawling in traffic in second gear, I slowly creep up to 2500 2600 rpm, then push in the clutch and "just" beginning to push the shifter out of second, CLUTCH PEDAL is already to the floor, the stick will kick back and I hear grinding. AGAIN, the freakin clutch pedal is to the floor. There is nothing I can do to stop the grinding sound but slap the shifter into the neutral gate.

If I drive with any more aggression above "gandma mode" or crawling in traffic, the tanny never does this. Is that solenoid still trying to engage and force the shifter over to the 3-4 gate while its still locked in second gear? WTF is this car doing?

Please, if you don't know exactly, or have experienced this, please do not post. No need for opinion or conjecture.

Thank you for any guidance...
 

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some of the potential issues going on:

  • hydraulic system needs to be bled - clutch is not fully releasing
  • fault with slave cylinder / throwout bearing assembly - leaking down and not holding clutch * friction disc completely free when pedal is depressed
  • issues with synchronizers

I've owned two M6 Challengers for a cumulative 86K (to date) and don't have those issues. First was a '09 and now have a '16 (both since new)

Can drive hard or easy and the same shift quality at either ends of the spectrum.

my '09 had the "sticky grease" issue on the input shaft - after that was serviced it was smoother that before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My car is a 2020 with only 2500 miles. This is not what I needed to hear. I havent looked on the car anywhere...but is there a zerk fitting so the system can be bled? I may just take it to the dealer.

I just installed the Barton and a skip shift. Should I take them out before I go?

Thank you,....
 

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2020 F8 Scat Pack 392 6 Speed Stick
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Hi,

Sounds like you might want to if you haven't already, remove the clutch delay valve, cdv, it's relatively easy, although I did mine on a hoist.

The valve let's the clutch hang disengaged a bit longer, which for me helped me grinding gears, after I removed it, didn't seem to have that issue as much, also seems to have helped when power shifting, and the feel for the car.

Regards,
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi,

Sounds like you might want to if you haven't already, remove the clutch delay valve, cdv, it's relatively easy, although I did mine on a hoist.

The valve let's the clutch hang disengaged a bit longer, which for me helped me grinding gears, after I removed it, didn't seem to have that issue as much, also seems to have helped when power shifting, and the feel for the car.

Regards,
Jim
Hmm... is that the in line restrictor?
 

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2020 F8 Scat Pack 392 6 Speed Stick
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Hi again,

More or less its down at the transmission connection if you search this or other sites and even YouTube there is videos and write ups, a long wood screw 2" works nicely to remove it.

Regards,
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, I saw these videos before. BUT, can anyone definitively say that this is causing my 2 to 3rd gear issue I am having? Im crawling in second gear in traffic. Im barely on the throttle, I push in the clutch pedal to the floor and just barely start to push the shifter out of second...and it starts to grind and sometimes kicks back. Clutch pedal completely to the floor. I literally jump in my seat, start to cry, because I'm grinding the gears on my brand new car. this is total bullsh!t that this is happening.
 

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My car is a 2020 with only 2500 miles. This is not what I needed to hear. I havent looked on the car anywhere...but is there a zerk fitting so the system can be bled? I may just take it to the dealer.

I just installed the Barton and a skip shift. Should I take them out before I go?

Thank you,....
the clutch system is self-bleeding it takes 200 full pedal strokes (after re-assembly) to bled it

if that doesn't help, I'm suspecting a fault with the slave cylinder.

People have had these wear out sometimes a bit before the clutch friction disc is worn
 

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Yeah, I saw these videos before. BUT, can anyone definitively say that this is causing my 2 to 3rd gear issue I am having? Im crawling in second gear in traffic. Im barely on the throttle, I push in the clutch pedal to the floor and just barely start to push the shifter out of second...and it starts to grind and sometimes kicks back. Clutch pedal completely to the floor. I literally jump in my seat, start to cry, because I'm grinding the gears on my brand new car. this is total bullsh!t that this is happening.
Hi,

Depending upon era cars or trucks you've driven or use to, each is a little different, I can only say for me it helped with the feel for the car.

Removing the valve won't hurt the vehicle or the performance, it will make the clutch behave in a more predictable manner, also make for less wear as if you power shift the trans you'll have less slippage of the clutch

Maybe read a few of the post discussing the CDV and maybe that will help you decide whether you want to remove it or not.

The only other thing that can help is a different shifter, I am still running my stock one, but lots of writeups on the Barton

Good luck, all cars take a bit to get used too, I'm still getting used to mine and its particulars and I've got 7500 miles on it.

Regards,
Jim
 

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I have had grinding of the syncros going into second and sometimes third. I blame the clutch delay valve, which I understand is there to prevent wheel hop during hard acceleration. I have also driven many stick shift cars, but this is the first one with a hydraulic system. I have learned to adjust my shifting technique. I am used to speed shifting (not power shifting where you dont lift off the throttle). I was used to depressing the clutch while simultaneously pulling the car out of gear, then by the time the clutch pedal is to the floor, you are in the next gear and could quickly let out the clutch pedal. My adjustment to my technique is to depress the clutch pedal to the floor before any movement of the shifter, then pull it out of gear and into the next before letting out the clutch pedal
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi,

Depending upon era cars or trucks you've driven or use to, each is a little different, I can only say for me it helped with the feel for the car.

Removing the valve won't hurt the vehicle or the performance, it will make the clutch behave in a more predictable manner, also make for less wear as if you power shift the trans you'll have less slippage of the clutch

Maybe read a few of the post discussing the CDV and maybe that will help you decide whether you want to remove it or not.

The only other thing that can help is a different shifter, I am still running my stock one, but lots of writeups on the Barton

Good luck, all cars take a bit to get used too, I'm still getting used to mine and its particulars and I've got 7500 miles on it.

Regards,
Jim
Thanks Jim,

Has anyone experienced what Im experiencing? It is not the shifter. I asked Dave at Barton about this issue. He has never heard of it. This was happening since day one. Stock shifter. I have a Barton in my car now. Now it is worse. I have been driving manuals since the mid 80's. Anyone remember the 2.2 turbo cars? I raced 3 of them back then. No car or truck Ive ever owned has done this stupid sh!t. My SRT-10 never did it but always had the 3rd gear miss issue. You have to drive my 2020 like a real old lady for this anomaly to happen. When it does, its freakin beyond aggravating. I'm pretty confident taking it to the local dealer will get me nowhere... Its a brand new factory ordered car with only 2500 miles.
 

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Both Challengers I've owned were 6 speeds shifted fine as far as I could tell. But they are also the only stick shift vehicles I've owned (Everything else was automatic), so the "weirdness" as it's called might just be normal to me. I've done the clutch delay valve delete. It helped in some scenarios but in my opinion it is not a night/day difference.

I know they need to be warmed up fully before you drive them like a hot rod, otherwise they're crunchy and notchy. Just a quirk but not a sign of a problem. Both cars also shifted better with age as they passed over 50,000 km or so. Also, you might need more RPM. I actually like the solid mechanical feel of it. When I borrowed a friend's Mustang GT 6 speed, yes the shifter was much lighter and required less effort. But it felt cheap and flimsy to me.

Anyway, your car only has 2500 miles. It's not even broken in yet. Maybe try the clutch delay valve mod, but I would say drive it, learn it. Get some mileage on it and get it broken in. Get it warmed up, try driving it a bit more aggressively after a while, try higher rpm and man-handle it. But don't be abusive. It will reward you.
 

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I'm trying to wrap my head around what it's doing. Is this a gear clash/kickback as you go into 3rd gear, or does this happen as you exit 2nd gear?
In my case I sometimes shift the lever slower than I get back off the clutch pedal and I get a clash going into 3rd. My leg gets ahead of my arm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I appreciate all the input. Thank you. I am not sure I properly conveyed my manual transmission experience. Ive lost track of the clutches I have replaced let alone the vehicles I have driven with manuals. Ok, are you old enough to drive a 3 on the tree? I am. I have. NO damn transmission should do what this car is doing to me. This is total bullsh!t. It happens only trying the exit 2nd and go into 3rd.

I fully understand the theory and principles of the CDV. However, look at a few videos on the Toyota version. There valve is only one-way. It limits only on clutch engagement. It doesn't limit on disengagement or when you press the pedal. THAT MAKES way more sense to me. After reading that, I decided to knock the dust off my jack stands and floor jack. KUDOS to ZL1 and there lip weld lift adapter or WTF its called. That damn thing is awesome. Still, THIS IS total bullsh!t that I have to crawl under a brand new car.

Removed the valve. Problem is gone. I want to slap the engineer in the teeth for this stupid idea. Idiot..
:mad:
 

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2020 Dodge Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack
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Yeah, I saw these videos before. BUT, can anyone definitively say that this is causing my 2 to 3rd gear issue I am having? Im crawling in second gear in traffic. Im barely on the throttle, I push in the clutch pedal to the floor and just barely start to push the shifter out of second...and it starts to grind and sometimes kicks back. Clutch pedal completely to the floor. I literally jump in my seat, start to cry, because I'm grinding the gears on my brand new car. this is total bullsh!t that this is happening.
That's not normal. My 2020 Scat Pack doesn't manifest that behavior. Stock shifter. CDV present.

All I can offer is with another car which had a hydraulic clutch the clutch hydraulic system shared fluid with the brake hydraulic system. The factory called for both the brake and clutch hydraulic systems to be flushed every 2 years. I did this but then once I let this go just 2.5 years and long story short the clutch failing to disengage completely or failing to engage smoothly and the crunchy shifting were all "cured" by a brake/clutch hydraulic system fluid flush/bleed.

'course, your car is I guess a 2020? Kind of hard to believe a fluid flush/bleed is required this soon. My WAG is and I expect someone else has already offered this is there is a problem with the clutch hydraulic system.

I would not attempt any mods or fixes, like removing the CDV or adding an aftermarket shifter. The clutch and transmission should work smoothly right off the showroom floor as is my experience with a number of manual transmission equipped cars including my 2020 Scat Pack.

One exception was a low miles pristine used car I bought from a dealer. The 6-speed sucked. Shifting was never very smooth. Due to a transmission seal leak the factory chose to replace the transmission with a new one. (The car had a 2 year/100K mile warranty.) The new transmission shifted like a dream. The original transmission was just a bad one and thankfully was replaced.
 

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I understand your level of exposure to manual transmissions. I learned to drive in a 1960 Dodge Power Wagon with a column shift 3 speed.
Is the grind happening going into 3rd? If so I have experienced the same thing in my 2020 392 6 speed.
 
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